An open letter to the forum.

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:52 am

First, I want to thank all those who responded out of your heart and convictions. Your words have bounced around in my head and have been heard and imprinted. For those who have offered up your apologies for perhaps something you have said or done, please be assurred that what has transpired behind the scenes, has not been caused by your posting or something you said. The offending parties know who they are so if you are wondering if its you, its not. I have been very clear to those who are the problem via PMs long before I wrote the goodbye message.

There was a time in my life when most things said or done didn't really matter to me. I was loud and brash and self centered, always thought my comments were more important than others, always thought more of myself than others. It was a wilderness experience for me, lasted through two wars, but was brought on by the loss of friends and family and an anger that was formed and shaped for function working in joint teams during the first gulf war. The wilderness experience, allowed me to expend all the pent up anger and energy in the most violent of ways. I came out of the wilderness, still clinging to my faith, exhausted and spent of anger, vowing that I would change and become human again, open to being molded into the person that God wanted me to be. Recently, I have noticed in me a change. Perhaps it was brought on by the elections in Nov, or by reading too many political threads, or by the desperate times the country is in. I don't know. Maybe all of those things. The one constant that I clung to though was the home of this forum, and the numerous people I call friends here.

By investing myself in the lives of those on this forum, by praying, talking, sharing, etc... I was able to connect to all that is good in life, to set aside once again the anger that dwells deep in me. This anger, contained by a passion for all that is good, and right, and just and pure has started to rear its ugly self in me. When attacks are made against those I care about, it flares. When I see in words, things that remind me of how I use to be, or speak or act, it flares. I can much better handle attacks on me than I can on those I care much about. The attacks seem more personal, the words seem more hurtful when not directed at me. I could respond with a "thicker skin" but that is not who Christ calls me to be.

This forum is a place for polite conversation, where children come to post like YKK and Lindsey "huntress" and others. It is a refuge from the insanity of the rest of the world, where we come to share our knowledge, opinions, questions, our life events both most excellent and ever so sad. We come here as a community of like minded people, from all parts of the world. We go on vacations together through our posts and pictures and sharing. We are there at graduations, and we are there for the sadness of funerals. We rejoice in a new pet, or birth of a child, and most certainly a new firearm or range report. We share our views on everything and anything. It is the only forum I participate in with such regularity. It is my refuge and it is the refuge of many of you whom I call family and friend now. I have met perhaps two dozen of you in person. Everyone a wonderful and treasured experience. I have been honored to pray for tens, if not hundreds of you. I have seen the answered prayers and God's Grace in and through the lives of so many of you. I look forward to hearing about your new item in your gun safe, or the new joys of your life. I share a bond with so many of you that I have not met. We share passions, and love the same things. It is this that brings me back to the forum hour after hour after hour.

Old Savage responded to me with several verses that my flared anger had set aside. He reminded me that I need to respond in a manner that Christ calls me to respond. As a receiver of the Ultimate Grace, I must respond out of the Grace with compassion and understanding of the human condition. My goodbye message was probably not the proper response to what I was feeling inside. I think instead I should act out of the grace received. In that light, I will be here, I will post less, but invest more energy in the positive rather than the negative. Thanks for the reality check OS. blessings to all

Tycer · Post by **Tycer** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:58 am

Nice. You're a good man.

C. Cash · Post by **C. Cash** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:04 am

Excellent Mike! I do understand where you're at for sure.

northwoods · Post by **northwoods** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:17 am

Thanks for being here!
Bob

mod71alaska · Post by **mod71alaska** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:18 am

Prayer answered. May God continue to work in your heart and Bless you, Mike. He certainly Blesses many of us thru you.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:32 am

mod71alaska wrote:Prayer answered. May God continue to work in your heart and Bless you, Mike. He certainly Blesses many of us thru you.

Victor, I couldn't have said it better myself. A quick silent prayer last night was answered in richness this morning!

Bearhands · Post by **Bearhands** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:39 am

Your presence will continue to help make this forum, "a good place to land" Thanks.

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:45 am

Mike, this is the first thread I opened this morning and I have no idea what caused it. I do know though that I feel exactly the same about this board as you do. It would be a lesser place here without you, so while I may not know what has happened, I do know I'm glad you're staying. We have lost far to many good folks over the years due to nastiness and bickering. Glad you're not one of them.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:17 am

The board has helped me calm down at least some.....There are some really good people here.

Post by **Old Savage** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:18 am

Love the picture of that kid three posts above.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:38 am

Mike,

Your letter really touched me! I think all of us could do with taking a closer look at ourselves.Mike you are a good man, with a good heart.
I am so grateful that your staying with us.I for one ,am going to try harder to "think before just responding". Sometimes I get overly caught up in things where maybe I should be listening more to you guys and writing less to just be including myself.
I myself, somtimes get this hang up where I think I have to prove myself on shooting issues and that friend is a flaw of mine.

Thanks for you inspiring letter,it also helped me take a good look at myself.

See ya Friend, Best of Everything to ya!

Borregos · Post by **Borregos** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:50 am

Mike,
Very pleased to read your post, this forum is a great place to be, thank you for sticking around.

deerwhacker444 · Post by **deerwhacker444** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:24 am

Glad you're sticking around.!

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:39 am

Mike,

Thanks for reconsidering. I do learn from your posts and I enjoy reading them. Each member who has left has diminished the whole of this family. I just could not bear to contemplate this forum without your presence and contributions.

Joe

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:41 am

Well, bust my bejebbers! When did this all happen? I obviously missed something. Not looking to drudge anything up, but this is a shocker.

Mike, I don't know what happened, but you would surely be missed if you left. I hope you've found a way to let what ever happened be forgiven/forgotten enough for you to remain here. I for one would feel a loss and I know the forum would.

Barcelona Rick · Post by **Barcelona Rick** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 10:53 am

Mr. Mike,

I'm tickled you decided to hang around. None of my business but I struggled for over 30+ years with some things that I had done in another time and it just about ate me up. After many attempts my family talked me into visiting with my doctor. I have been working with a group of people for about 3 months now and it seems to have helped. When I finally surrendered eveything to Jesus Christ I began to heal. If I can help let me know.....

jumbaeux

slimster · Post by **slimster** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:03 am

Praise be to God! Add another to the list of answered prayers. I only hope that people like Scott T. and Ganjiro are monitoring this forum occasionally and happen to see this and the "Goodbye" thread. Maybe they wold realize how much these type of losses affect so many of us on the forum.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:14 am

Mike -

Good to hear you're going to stick around.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:14 am

Thanks for remaining with us Mike. You're one of the folks that has always maintained the high standards I've come to love about this board. If ever, you have my #.

gamekeeper · Post by **gamekeeper** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:34 am

Borregos wrote:Mike,
Very pleased to read your post, this forum is a great place to be, thank you for sticking around.

+ 1 The best news I've had all day!

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:56 am

That's the reasonable approach, to invest a little less in the forum if it's bothering you. There are flare-ups from time to time, but the people who get flamed are usually provoking it or are unable to tolerate a dissenting opinion. Respect is a two-way street.

People have pressure in their lives for one reason or another and you shouldn't take that too hard, or, rather, don't let their problems become your problem.

rangerider7 · Post by **rangerider7** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 12:51 pm

Good news! Just reading the threads was enlightening.

Post by **Hobie** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 1:33 pm

Well, I feel some better, too.

6 years ago I came to leverguns looking for some info and to connect with somebody who had knowledge at least a little beyond what seems to be the average around here. What I found was more than that. I found Christian men who regularly prayed for one another. People who knew guns and shared info with those who did not. People who were true friends to one another as Terry is a true friend to Boge, JimT is to Paco (just two examples of many!). I got to meet some of you like 6ptSitka, ColoradoNative, Tycer, Griff and Junkbug.

By and large this place has been a wonderful, yes, refuge. It is unfortunate indeed if some recent arrivals seem to think that we are living some sort of archaic life style from a time before their birth. In OUR world, in the world of the Leverguns Community, we are gentlemen to each other, each other's families, and to each other's friends. We don't belittle each other as some sort of twisted attempt at humor. We don't cuss (or need to) to show our "manliness". We are aware of right and wrong and whatever weaknesses we have and however we might show them we are willing to admit error and repent. After all we are among FRIENDS here.

For those few of you who find this too difficult a concept to accept or upon which to act, have no fear, you won't have to.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:28 pm

Good news, Mike. Thank you for reconsidering.

Reminds me of a favorite saying of my late maternal grandfather: "If you're angry and feel like doing something, it's probably the wrong thing to do."

I'm not saying it was wrong to want to leave or take a break, I'm just saying when emotions and anger flare it's never a good time to do anything but cool off . . .

. . . or beat the wife . . .

. . . or kick the dog . . .

j/k

Welcome back, Mike.

Noah

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 2:41 pm

Good to hear.
This is one of the very few places on the 'net that I hang out other than the gun auctions and each day I look forward to what everyone is up to.

We've lost to many of the good people lately. I'd hate to lose another!

jb

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:29 pm

Glad you're sticking.

stretch · Post by **stretch** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 4:52 pm

Thanks for stickin' around.

If the good folks give up, we're done!

-Stretch

PaulB · Post by **PaulB** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 5:56 pm

Good man, Mike! I too have noticed coarser behavior. Maybe was even guilty of a bit of it.

If so, mea culpa!

I'm an administrator of another forum. It's a difficult job, drawing the line. Inevitably, some people push the line. There may even be agents provocateurs, or maybe just trolls, causing the trouble.

We have some rules of thumb we try to use over there. They go sort of like this:

1) A forum is a voluntary association. You can choose to, or choose not to, associate with a particular individual. For any reason whatever. There is no rule of law that must be adhered to, or standards of evidence. Whatever freedom of speech there may be in a forum, does not trump the freedom of association.

2) A forum is owned by someone. It is not a public restroom. That owner, or his designated agents, may set any standard of conduct they like.

3) An individual who is on the edge may be a provocateur or not, a troll or not. We don't really care about establishing it definitely. All that matters is if he is acting as a troll or a provocateur would act.

4) When someone is pushing the line on acceptable behavior, give him the boot (perhaps after a warning or two). Frequent warnings make no sense. Keeping someone on in the name of "freedom of expression" or "not having too heavy a hand" makes no sense, if that single individual drives 50 people away (most will leave without saying anything).

Your initial decision was a good one. Why associate with people who are causing you heartburn? I'm glad you reconsidered, but it brings up a point: either the coarse ones are booted, or the good ones will walk away.

We don't always follow our rules of thumb on my other forum, but the time is coming soon to be the "bad guy" and kick somebody out. Somebody always comes in and pushes that line, now and then...

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:04 pm

There are an awful lot of things and people I disagree with, but I choose to ignore them when I can, because they have the right to be that way. Sometimes, I actually feel physical pain by not saying something or smacking the hell out of them. I think what you're feeling is a buildup of this kinda thing. If you find something that fixes it, please let me know. Praying sure as hell didn't help.

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:26 pm

The Board is better for your decision to stay on.
Sometimes I tell my wife of something I have read or was directed to fro a post on this sight and when she asks how I heard about it I will sometimes say, half jokingly, from LeverBrothers. I see this site much like a family myself. Sometime we squabble over this or that, but its over the issue, not each other. I have noticed a few out-of-left-field replies to some posts that attack the poster and not the subject or issue. I'll admit to avoiding the site for a day to two after in hopes that I avoid throwing fuel on the fire in defending someone when it might not be needed. I mean I'll post a few things that may rattle cages, and have! but I believe in everyone's "right to be wrong". By that I mean you can believe whatever and I'll maybe put in my two cents worth on the subject (it's amazing what 2 cents can get you sometimes!) but I try to always separate the post from the poster. This board has so much knowledge and experience that I'm just glad they haven't booted me out just for lowering the average!
Again I am glad you're sticking around. Thanks.

JReed · Post by **JReed** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:43 pm

Mike

I have been out a couple days so missed your previous good bye until today. I was deeply saddened by the news since we have PM'd in the past and I greatly enjoyed your company here by the fire. I am very happy to hear that your sticking around even if in a limited capacity.

Dave · Post by **Dave** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:09 pm

I am glad to see this post. The Devil is always gnawing at us. He knows our weaknesses. It may be God is using this experience to refine you further and grow your understanding of his ways.
We all wrestle with anger to varying degrees. I often tell my wife I hope to see a sign letting me know the Lord has chosen me to be the Instrument of His Divine Vengeance. I'm joking. I really am. Unless He needs me in that case I am available.
You may not agree but it would seem you have taken a few more steps down the narrow way. Glad you made the decision you did.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:28 pm

Most of this went way over my head. I`m glad you are staying and the rest I will let slide way over my head as it has so far.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:49 pm

Good news.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:07 pm

PaulB wrote:Good man, Mike! I too have noticed coarser behavior. Maybe was even guilty of a bit of it. If so, mea culpa!

I haven't been around long enough to notice 'coarser behavior' and hope I've not been a cause of 'coarser behavior', but I have always felt that strong men (or women) tend to have strong feelings about things they generally know or care quite a bit about. That always leads to potential friction, but if it can be kept at the idealogical level and not descend to the personal level, we should all be able and willing to handle it. If I'm ever appearing 'personal' vs. 'idealogical' please someone post me a 'smack upside the head' (...now I did NOT say 'illogical' - THAT is something I'm prone to now and again...

).

Chuck 100 yd wrote:Most of this went way over my head. I`m glad you are staying and the rest I will let slide way over my head as it has so far.

+1

stretch wrote:Thanks for stickin' around. If the good folks give up, we're done! -Stretch

It's easy to continue an argument 'gone bad'.

It's harder to just walk away.

But it takes REAL COURAGE to stay and keep it civil. You 'da Man...!

Hopefully whoever you felt was being unreasonable will chill a bit, as well.
Life is too short for that nonsense; we've got bigger things to deal with.

brucew44guns · Post by **brucew44guns** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:10 pm

Sure am glad that I might------just might-----still have a chance in the future to buy some choice lever gun from you Mike, you deciding to stay is like a good medicine that has just kicked in at the forum, making things feel better!! Thanks Mike, for that decision.

1886 · Post by **1886** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 8:24 pm

Hi Mike, Great post. I understand the anger "thing" all too well myself. I ask that my heart be lightened everyday. I do better some days more than others. I suppose this is because I am more open to change some days. It does seem to be a constant challenge. I am not really part of the "click" myself but I do find the form to be a refuge at times. So glad you are going to stay. I know YOU are a good MAN. Best of luck to all of us with the struggle. 1886.

piller · Post by **piller** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 9:56 pm

Mike: I am glad you are staying. We need to associate with good Men, and Women for that matter, and I don't think this forum would be quite the same without you.

pokey · Post by **pokey** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:45 pm

1886 wrote:Hi Mike, Great post. I understand the anger "thing" all too well myself. I ask that my heart be lightened everyday. I do better some days more than others. I suppose this is because I am more open to change some days. It does seem to be a constant challenge. I am not really part of the "click" myself but I do find the form to be a refuge at times. So glad you are going to stay. I know YOU are a good MAN. Best of luck to all of us with the struggle. 1886.

wow. i thought i was more alone with "the anger thing" turns out i was wrong.
this is like therapy for me, i get so p.o.ed at work that i can become physically ill.
i come here for humor,chatter to defuse/calm down.

grant me the strength to change what i can
the patience to let go what i cannot,
and the wisdom to see the difference.

stick around man.

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:49 pm

Me, too. What the other guys said.

P

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:20 am

Congrats on the reconsider

!

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:43 am

I missed your original "goodby" post, but I am glad you changed your mind. These internet communities, being open to the world accumulate some folks that don't share the common ethos and manners of most. I don't expect that to change. I have had to learn to accept this and just ignore those folks whom I find abrasive. This has been hard for me, as my first instinct if to engage them in verbal combat, trying to take the high ground. I don't even try to do that anymore.

Anyway... Good folks like you are always an asset to this group of people and I am truly glad you have decided to stick around.

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:00 am

Been off here for a couple days. Just catching up. Glad you have decided to stay. I was very saddened when I read your "Goodbye" post. Now joy has returned.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:11 am

There is an issue with anger and death. It takes from us those who we love at times and we have no control. I found out 4 years ago that two women close to me; one our attorney and friend and the other a gal who had worked for me for 12 years happily had cancer. One lived and the other passed from us physically. I found myself angry at some things for no apparent reason until I figured it out. That did not solve it but at least I recognized it. Then in the past two years I lost 8 close friends but got in touch with about as many old ones. It is something we are forced to deal with as we pass through this world. This all creates emotions that interweave our lives. Some of the death was expected and well done good and faithful servant and some was seemingly tragic - very tragic. But we must deal with it all in one way or another. Those who have been through war ..... I haven't, can't really speak to it. But people of faith hang together. We certainly didn't want one leaving .... the strength which every joint supplies. Many lessons to be learned even if this is just an internet board - which of course it isn't.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:48 am

A couple of things to think about, and I'll say no more.....

Judge not....

Stones and glass houses....

Love the sinner and hate the sin.....

Swearing and meaning no harm and praying and meaning no good....

You guys recently lost a good man here and don't even know it........

Nath · Post by **Nath** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:27 am

Wonderful just wonderfull, what a bueatiful letter, full of the positive.
Thankyou Sir.

Nath.

Catshooter · Post by **Catshooter** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:23 pm

Mike,

What an excellent post. I'm usually disapointed when someone bails on a forum. It's hardly ever the guys I think would do the forum a favor by leaving!

You are certainly not one of those people. Glad you re-considered.

Love the sinner, detest the sin.

Old Savage,

You did all of us and the forum a service. Thank you kindly.

Cat

Post by **Hobie** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 5:43 pm

PaulB wrote:Good man, Mike! I too have noticed coarser behavior. Maybe was even guilty of a bit of it. If so, mea culpa!

I'm an administrator of another forum. It's a difficult job, drawing the line. Inevitably, some people push the line. There may even be agents provocateurs, or maybe just trolls, causing the trouble.

We have some rules of thumb we try to use over there. They go sort of like this:

1) A forum is a voluntary association. You can choose to, or choose not to, associate with a particular individual. For any reason whatever. There is no rule of law that must be adhered to, or standards of evidence. Whatever freedom of speech there may be in a forum, does not trump the freedom of association.

2) A forum is owned by someone. It is not a public restroom. That owner, or his designated agents, may set any standard of conduct they like.

3) An individual who is on the edge may be a provocateur or not, a troll or not. We don't really care about establishing it definitely. All that matters is if he is acting as a troll or a provocateur would act.

4) When someone is pushing the line on acceptable behavior, give him the boot (perhaps after a warning or two). Frequent warnings make no sense. Keeping someone on in the name of "freedom of expression" or "not having too heavy a hand" makes no sense, if that single individual drives 50 people away (most will leave without saying anything).

Your initial decision was a good one. Why associate with people who are causing you heartburn? I'm glad you reconsidered, but it brings up a point: either the coarse ones are booted, or the good ones will walk away.

We don't always follow our rules of thumb on my other forum, but the time is coming soon to be the "bad guy" and kick somebody out. Somebody always comes in and pushes that line, now and then...

Thank you for posting.

Bogie35 · Post by **Bogie35** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:23 am

Thank you Mike. Your post explained a lot of what I've been going through. As a result of the emotional roller coaster I've been on lately, I've lashed out in several instances, completely losing sight of the grace God has shown me. I've been restless, irritable, and discontent. And I've chosen this forum on which to vent. Venting is good, however I have gone overboard at times.

Your post has awakened a sense of gratitude within me that has been lacking.

Thanks and God bless,

bogie

Rod WMG · Post by **Rod WMG** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:09 pm

Today I learned a wonderful poster on another board had died in January. I've had to be offline for months an am just catching up. Your leaving here was in the same league.

We don't have enough good people; glad you're still going to be here.