OT-Sporterized Mil-Surps

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:06 am

I've always enjoyed well done sporterizing jobs since I understand many were a dime a dozen and as long as they weren't done to something rare. The current Krag-Jorgensen thread and my recent purchase of a sporterized Swede Mauser got me to thinking we may have some really neat and well done ones around here so let's see 'em!

Here's my lousy pics of the neat Swede:

Based on a quick range session, she's promises to be a shooter as well if I do my part.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:24 am

Don't know about sporterizing, but my M96 Swede is consistantly the most accurate rifle I have. That 6.5 X 55 is awsome. By the way, the Norwegians chambered their Krags for that round too.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:26 am

AWP,
My Swede sits in a plastic stock and has had the original barrel taken off and replaced with the issue shorter version, Sarco had a ton of these barrels ( at one time ) My gunsmith friends have a borescope with a television moniter, while we were looking at it, they both commented on the workmanship of the Swedish workers as one of the nicest looking bores they had ever seen.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:42 am

My Grandfather was fond of customizing military rifles.

My Dad gave me his Arisaka Sporter that had been rechambered to .257 Roberts when I turned 21.

And the '03 Sporter I got on my 30th birthday

Both are super shooters.

My Dad still has half dozen more.

jb

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:46 am

Andrew, that's a really nice Swede there! I like manlicher stocks. They just look classic to me.

Here's my sporter: (phases of completion)

First mods - chopped the stock back, fixed the scope mount bases:

More work on the stock, install Beuhler safety, new scope, new buttplate:

New rings added:

Well, my sporterd milsurp is also a Swede. An 1894 Swede. When I first saw it in the shop, it was already chopped up and had all kinds of issues. The stock was full length manlicher but the muzzle end was badly warped to the point of being beyond repair. The inletting was done in such a way that there was a gap between the bottom action and the receiver and it would not feed from the magazine. The safety was original but there were no iron sights left so as-is would need a really high scope mount. Speaking of the mounts, they were loose - the holes were stripped... but the bolt was reshaped and dropped nicely, all the necessary parts were there and the bore was very good, so I bought it.

I ended up cutting the stock back, reshaping the butt to remove the montecarlo hump and flared pistol grip. I redid the inletting so that the mag well and receiver mated up properly and epoxy bedded the action and free floated the barrel. I installed a beuhler safety and drilled and tapped the scope base holes to the next largest size screws and remounted the bases and put a nice Leupold 1x4 20mm objective scope on her. Later on, I replaced the old weaver rings with some new Millit rings and removed the ventelated buttpad, fabricated a steel replacement plate and installed that. Also installed sling swivels and a nice Montana sling. It's now complete and I consider it "my" rifle now.

Something about a rifle that you put a considerable amount of work into - just feels different in your hands than one that comes out of the box ready to go.

Now, I wish that I'd found this in original condition, but then, it would have cost many times over what I paid for it as a good condition 1894 Swede is a rare bird and the price for them has gone up past $1,200 last time I looked - probably higher now.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:53 am

Every time one of those what if you could only have 4 guns things comes up, my 6.5x55 always makes the list for me.

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:25 pm

Jason's deer pic inspired me to post one more myself:

From the leverguns summer hunt 2008 - Hondo, TX (Jacob's 4-horned ram)

Jason - those are some nice looking rifles - your Granddad obviously knew what he was doing! And being family pieces makes them even more special.

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:28 pm

Just needs a little TLC! She'll be a shooter for sure.

Good luck with her.

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:40 pm

My sporterized mil-surp is plain ugly...

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:55 pm

I have seen some pretty nice sportrized milsurps, but I never really owned one. All of my milsurps have be original up to now. I still have a Swedish 94 carbine in 6.5 X 55 that was my dads. I grew up hunting deer with it and an old Remington A3-03 30-06 but both were original. My dad still has the 03-A3, but he gave me the Swedish carbine. I always prefered the Swedish carbine over the 03-A3 because it was shorter and lighter, and even the little carbine seemed heavy after carrying it for a couple of miles as a kid.

I have though about modifying a few different milsurps over the years but they were all original and I hated to alter them, but I can see why many did in the past, as they were cheap, and could be turned into decent hunters, with out much trouble.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 12:58 pm

Hobie,
I like it anyway!

Jac,
That's one wild looking critter!

I had a couple Swedish rifles. One was a really nifty little sporter with a mannlicher (sp) stock. The other
was a Model 38. Both were excellent shooters that I wish i hadn't let get away!

jb

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 1:09 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:I have though about modifying a few different milsurps over the years but they were all original and I hated to alter them, but I can see why many did in the past, as they were cheap, and could be turned into decent hunters, with out much trouble.

IF I were to do one today, I'd look at the Mosin-Nagant rifles.

Pros:
Still dirt cheap (usually under $125 in decent shape) because so many have been imported

The 7.62x54R is an adequate round (roughly .30-06 class IIRC) and still somewhat cheap when purchased in bulk by mail order or gunshow

Aftermarket accessories are out there but tend to be geared towards better sighting over the milspec sights

Cons:
Most were rode hard and put up wet, refurbed, rode hard and put up wet, refurbed, rode hard and put up wet, refurbed, you get the idea.

Most of the ammo available is corrosive so the bore may be a sewerpipe. Might still shoot lights out (and I've heard of some that do even with crud bores), might not.

I don't know how easily it could be converted to another caliber by rebarrelling or rechambering. I do not know what the action can handle pressure wise either.

Aftermarket support is small (but as I said above, tends to lean towards USEFUL mods)

slimster · Post by **slimster** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:27 pm

O.S.O.K. wrote:Jason's deer pic inspired me to post one more myself:

From the leverguns summer hunt 2008 - Hondo, TX (Jacob's 4-horned ram)

Jason - those are some nice looking rifles - your Granddad obviously knew what he was doing! And being family pieces makes them even more special.

How cool...a Billy in a ghilly (A Ghilly-Billy?)

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:43 pm

Nothin complete, but I have an 03 and a 1917 in parts I will complete someday

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 2:58 pm

There is something really cool and utilitarian about these rifles.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:58 pm

Here is my "sporterized" U.S. Model of 1917 Enfield Rifle made by Remington.

I bought it in the 1990s from an old gentelman in his 90s. He had sporterized it himself and had used a booklet from the NRA titled "The U.S. Model 1917 Rifle" which was a compilation of reprints from the Oct 1956, Aug 1960, and May 1962 issues of "The American Rifleman" magazines. He was kind enoug to give me the booklet. I have those three issues of "The American Rifleman" magazines too.

Anyway, it is a very accurate rifle and is well worn but is a really solid rifle. I carry it in my truck frequently in my travels here and there. It has accounted for one Mule Deer and a few coyotes.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 4:50 pm

Modoc,

I love that '17!
A sporterized 1917 or Brit P14 has been on my list for some time. Tough old guns! built like a tank.
Along with a Krag sporter.

I'll have to sneak a couple pictures of my Dad's 03-A3s. He's got some real beauties.

jb

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:33 pm

My Dad sportered a 1917 as well. I had it and fixed it (the scope mount was very fragile) and then ended up giving it to my big brother. Its a tack driver - no kidding. 180 grain Sierras with a charge of IMR4350 go into 3/4" at 100 yards.

It is a bit heavy, but that hasn't kept my bro from taking it elk hunting and pronghorn hunting.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 5:58 pm

Here is my first Krag sporter, bought in 1960 at a cost of $15.00

Here my second Krag sporter, bought in 2005 at a cost of $300.00

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 6:04 pm

2ndovc wrote:Modoc,

I love that '17!
A sporterized 1917 or Brit P14 has been on my list for some time. Tough old guns! built like a tank.
Along with a Krag sporter.

jb

In his book "Bolt Action Rifles, 3rd Edition", Frank De Haas says that the 1917 action is the strongest ever made. That is one reason that "A Square" used them to build their magnum rifles.

JustaJeepGuy · Post by **JustaJeepGuy** » Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:16 pm

I have a "sporterized" 98K Mauser. I bought it as an action with a (rusted up) barrel, but not put together. I got another 98K barrel, had it chambered to 8mm-'06, and stuffed it into a Ram-Line stock. Easy as pie. For pics, look at any Ram-Line ad for the stock--it's just like it!

creosote · Post by **creosote** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:32 am

I grew up in the era when sporterizing a military rifle was the lead story in most every gun magazine.
I have a deep appreciation for these old rifles, my favorite rifle was a project done by a veteran of the Second Marine Division , a 6.5 Arisaka in a Bishop stock rechambered to 6.5X55.
creosote

Hillbilly · Post by **Hillbilly** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:52 pm

I bought my son a 03 Springfeild that had been sporterized years ago. It was stocked with a nice peice of walnut and had a short LOP ...fit him just right at the time. A Tasco variable scope was in the rings too...

I stay after him to get better optics and get the thing re-stocked to fit him better.... or I will re-possess it.

This rifle had 2 groove barrel with a '35 date if memory serves... wish I had a picture of it.

Gene Dip · Post by **Gene Dip** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 5:16 pm

This is a VZ24 that Harry McGowen had sporterized for me in the early 1990s. It is a 338-06 AI. I did all the stock work on a Fajen semi-inletted English walnut stock. The finish is a multi-coat hand rubbed application of Minwax Wipe-on Poly Satin diluted with mineral spirits.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:53 pm

Good looking stuff guys!

A P14 or 17 is on the wish list to build into one of the Aussie or Canadian .303 based wildcats. Someday...

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Mon Jun 08, 2009 10:24 pm

An old Mauser in .308 I wound up more or less having to 'sporterize' because I wanted to replace the rear sight with a Williams FP, and one thing led to another...

Hope to get some range time with it this summer.

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 9:28 am

One of the things I like about sporterizing military rifles is that most rifles end up with some type of iron sight. Many are not even set up to use scopes -- mine isn't. I have always been a fan of iron sights (barrel, peep, etc.). Many of these rifles are very accurate and along with their iron sights make excellent long range hunting rifles.

All of the rifles posted so far are just plain cool.

AJMD429 -- That camo stock on your conversion looks good. A little different for a military conversion but nice looking none-the-less.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:17 am

My own sporterized Swede 96:

I picked this rifle up in 1985 for $40, from the original buyer who had already shortened the barrel to 24", cut some stock off, mounted a scope in Williams mounts, and did a torch and sledghammer bolt handle bend job. I have a near-identical twin to it in unmolested form.

I shortened the barrel a bit more to make it a Mannlicher, fitted a Spanish Mauser front band notched to accept a Williams ramp front base. Then I reheated and totally reshaped the bolthandle and ground the top surface of the shank to clear a 4X Unertl Hawk scope with a picket post and crosshair, my favorite scope and reticle combination. The metal parts went off to a 'smith in MD for bead blasting and blue-black blueing, while I smoothed the stock and radiused the sharp corners of the forend on either side of the barrel channel. When everything came back I fitted the metal bits, attaching the remnant of the front sling swivel band with capscrews on the sides and the original band spring underneath. The front band is captured by the original band spring.

This 1912 CG 96 will generally do 0.5 MOA if I do my part, and that's shooting 44.4 gr of IMR 4831 under a Hornady 140 gr spire point. It has taken three whitetails and one 560 lb Canadian black bear; the latter with Norma 156 gr factory RN ammo. It hasn't fired a shot in anger in 20 years, but I exercise it at least once a year on the 440 yd gong at the local club. It's always five shots and five solid "THUNKS" in reply. Boring.

Noah

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:23 am

Noah That's Sharp!!!

Gonna have to add another Sweede to the list.

jb

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:29 am

as a milsurp collector I really hate to see the history lost with these rifles.that said your rifle and your money.

not long ago at the range a guy was showing me his sporter that he had just finished.he asked what I thought of his 03.well you just took a $800.00 rifle and turned into a $200.00 shooter.he was happy I guess thats all that matters.it is sad that he could have sold that rifle to a collector saved the money he spent on a stock,D&T mounts,rings and bought a nice rem 700 and had money left over

.
pete

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:23 am

txpete wrote:as a milsurp collector I really hate to see the history lost with these rifles.pete

I don't see it that way. There are still thousands of milsup rifles in circulation. Some of them are going up in value and can't be bought on the cheap anymore but if you want say an 03 all you have to do to get one is shop on the internet for an hour or so and you've got it. Good grief!! Just take a look at Mitchell Arms and the number of 98s that they have put into circulation over the last 10-years.

Noah Zark · Post by **Noah Zark** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:35 am

txpete wrote:as a milsurp collector I really hate to see the history lost with these rifles . . .

I agree; personally I'm not in favor of sporterizing guns which are still in original configuration. However, if a milsurp rifle has already been cut on, it's a perfect candidate for sporterization. My Swede was cut on, both metal and wood, when I bought it for $40 back in the 80s. Wasn't any going back. And even then I knew that elm-stocked Swede Mausers were not the norm. The vast majority of the then-$59.95 Swede Mausers were beech stocked, and elm was rare even then. JMO.

Noah

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:37 am

yup they are butchers and been ripping people off for years.like I say your money and gun.I can remember as a kid barrels of them (03's) in the army/navy stores dirt cheap & ditto on K98K mausers.
my rifles will be left to my grandson unmolested intact mint cond.I can hear it now when he gets older...man I never saw one of those before

.last year at the gun show in austin a guy had a nice 1895 win in 7.62X54R and the idiot cut the stock & barrel and put a muzzle brake on it.I wanted to puke.
pete

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:05 am

txpete said:

yup they are butchers and been ripping people off for years

Would you clear that up a bit for me Pete? Are you saying that people that sporterize milsup rifles are butchers and who have they been ripping off for years?

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:21 am

Modoc ED wrote:txpete said:

yup they are butchers and been ripping people off for years
Would you clear that up a bit for me Pete? Are you saying that people that sporterize milsup rifles are butchers and who have they been ripping off for years?

no problem.Mitchell Arms has been selling yugo M48's for years and at first claiming them as WWII mausers which they are not.then the K98K refurb'ed mausers were reblued and stamped with nazi marking and were fakes in new stocks sold at high dollar prices.the same rifle a russian capture was 1/2 the price.yes they are crooks imho.

http://www.marstar.ca/Yugo-BS.htm

http://www.marstar.ca/Y-E-98.htm

Modoc ED · Post by **Modoc ED** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:58 am

Ok, thanks for the clarification. Yes, they (Mitchell Arms) have boogered a few 98s and yers, you can get a 98K from them in any configuration you want -- almost. I don't think I'd go as far as calling them crooks.

Anyway, a collector of military arms usually has at least one sporterized one. If you've got one, let's see it.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:31 pm

none in my safes

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:52 pm

The sporters in my dads racks are what got me into collecting military arms. We have by Far more originals than sporters.

When these were done you could buy an Arisaka or Mauser or Springfield for $10-$20 and have the metal work done by one of the many talented machinists in the area and my family were all builders and carpenters did the woodworking themselves for Far less than a new factory sporting rifle.

I agree that there isn't much reason to alter an original collectable today as we loose another piece of history every day but there was a time that for many it was an only option for a well made hunting rifle. Plus there are plenty of sprters out there already that can be worked over into anything you want.

jb

flb · Post by **flb** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:34 pm

Have posted this on other sites but I love this Krag, whoever did it did it right. Has the old Weaver K4, trigger breaks like glass and it shoots easily 1 1/4" at a 100. Barrel slugs at .308 so it could be an 03 barrel.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:05 pm

2ndovc wrote:I agree that there isn't much reason to alter an original collectable today as we loose another piece of history every day but there was a time that for many it was an only option for a well made hunting rifle. Plus there are plenty of sprters out there already that can be worked over into anything you want.

You and Noah hit it on the head. I prefer the ones done back when they were a dime a dozen, not the ones dropped into a synthetic stock today (no offence AJMD!

).

I won't sporterize one that's still original either, only one that's already been hacked. I came close to doing it with my spare Martini Cadet but only because the stock had been refinished. Decided to sell it after acquiring one already done similar to what I wanted. A look in the FS section will find the one I have for sale. Hint hint, wink wink, nudge nudge...

I haven't looked at a Mitchell's Mausers ad in sometime but from what I remember of them, it was ALMOST deceptive advertising. It was obvious what was going on IF you knew what you were looking at but there was no fine print that I recall where they actually printed what they were doing. I've seen a few new collectors trying to sell them off so they can purchase something else but knowledgeable collectors won't offer near the asking price.

Noah, I may have to send my Swede your way for similar treatment.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Fri Jun 12, 2009 9:28 pm

Modoc ED wrote: AJMD429 -- That camo stock on your conversion looks good. A little different for a military conversion but nice looking none-the-less.

Ramline only had black and Mossy Oak or whatever, and were out of stock with the black ones anyway. The other brands I felt were ridiculously overpriced.

The gun was parkerized already, and 'green' and ALSO needed some touch-up (the solder showed all under where the shroud the rear sights mounts on was removed, which I had to remove to get the 'wings' out of the way or else cut them off). Since there was thusly going to be 'green' OR an expensive re-bluing or re-parkerizing project, I voted 'green'...

As I noted, it was a really convoluted project, but I enjoyed the final result. Here's more on the project:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... lit=mauser

Cosmoline · Post by **Cosmoline** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:18 am

Some of those are actually well done. But no hacksaw will ever touch my Tikkakoski M91 or my prized Schmidt-Rubin 1911. With GP-11 it will shoot sub MOA groups. I would not have wanted to be in the first lines of pointed headed fellows trying to invade Switzerland.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:48 am

Cosmoline wrote:Some of those are actually well done. But no hacksaw will ever touch my Tikkakoski M91 or my prized Schmidt-Rubin 1911. With GP-11 it will shoot sub MOA groups. I would not have wanted to be in the first lines of pointed headed fellows trying to invade Switzerland.

+1 on the finn's I have M28/30 sako sky that I like smoking the 03 boys with

.

M27 tikka

M28 sig

my newest M39 sky

Bruce Scott · Post by **Bruce Scott** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:44 am

I will finally get my hands on this m38 Husky next week. It is all original with matching numbers. The scope and no drill mount come with it, as does the original rear sight. It will be returned to original configuration for service rifle competition. I may have a play with the scope first...

.

She's going to stay strictly original. Too many of these have already been sporterised in Aust.

bsaride · Post by **bsaride** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:40 am

Lots of fine rifles shown here.

I have always thought about taking the 1917 parts and making a 35 Whelan sporter.
The 03 came with a semi inletted stock and I will likely just put it together on that stock
and sell off the stock stock. All this will be down the road as I have several other projects
in the works. Time to put my boots on and go modify a $175 front sight setup to fit the '94.

Cosmoline · Post by **Cosmoline** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 3:43 pm

Nice collection txpete! Once you've got bit by the Mosin bug there's no going back.

txpete · Post by **txpete** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 4:21 pm

thanks cosmo...all I need is a 91/24 and I am done with the finn's.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:36 pm

txpete wrote:thanks cosmo...all I need is a 91/24 and I am done with the finn's.

It's NEVER over with the Finns!

Found a barreled Krag action today minus the bolt. Barrel cut to somewhere around 16" and I have no idea where to source a bolt or what headspacing issues there could be. Or what to do for a stock. To top it off, the guy wanted $175 IIRC. For $75 I might have bit but not $175.

donw · Post by **donw** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:33 am

this is my 93/95 oberndorf modelo 1893 mauser made in ovideo spain, arsenal in 1921. it was given to me as a barreled action about thirty-five years ago...took me quite few years to complete.

i left the barrel in the standard 7x57 military barrel but has been cut and crowned to 22" as i like shooting the heavier bullets it was designed for, timiney trigger with a heavier firing pin spring for faster lock time (makes it harder to cock though)...i'd like to find a souce for a titanium firing pin for it, too, but i can't locate any as of yet.

i have the high weaver scope rings, that i lapped in by hand, for the bushnell sportview 3-9x40 in order to operate the 'flag' saftey.

in all, an accurate, reliable, rugged, rifle that's adequate for deer, etc.

i have a mosin nagant made in 1917 with the imperial czar eagle stamp on the reciever that i'm leaving original but i also have a mosin carbine that's in the process of being 'sporterized'. the carbines stock was desintregrating from oil damage when i got it and it has been refurbished and had a really nice blue job done on it so i'm going to finish the 'sporterization'. i'll put it in one of the polymer stocks soon hopefully. the 7.62x54R is indeed a potent round...the russian equivalent of the 30-06...unfortunately, there's not much in the way of reloading data for it and not much sporting/commercial ammo/brass available. (at least to my knowledge...and...i admit...i haven't done a lot of research on the cartridge as i favor the .308 winchester.)

i remember seeing mausers, enfields arisakas, springfields etc stuffed into barrels at woolworths, penny's, sears, war surplus stores etc for $2.50 a piece...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 11:24 am

Ackley did some work with the Arisaka and detemined it to be one of the strongest actions around IIRC. Do some searching for P.O. Ackley and Arisaka actions, the info should be out there with the help of my friend Mr Google if you don't have any of Ackley's books.