Bayonet on a Marlin 444?

AR-Trvlr · Post by **AR-Trvlr** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:11 pm

There's a thread about it over on AR15.com - seems interesting from a technical standpoint..
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=281787

SmokeEater2 · Post by **SmokeEater2** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:17 pm

I'm at a loss for words...

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:20 pm

My policy with bayonets was and is. if I had to use one, then I have already screwed the pooch. I want my enemies to die no closer than 7 yards out and preferably closer to 20 yards.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:03 pm

Interesting in an odd sort of way.

Never had much use for Bayonets. I had the "distinction" of breaking mine off during a particularly aggressive move during bayonette training. My DS couldn't believe it.

Give me an "artillery sword" (short type, one each. I prefer Gladius style) for bladed H2H...

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:59 pm

I don't think the rifle would stand the stress of actual use. A machete might be a better choice if it came to that.

mescalero1 · Post by **mescalero1** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:16 pm

Absurd

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:35 pm

That is not a bayonet.

I have it on good authority, that the entire assembly/outfit is the lastest ne'plus-ultra, in the little know sport of pig-sticking - where the hog is speared, then blown off point with the cannon.

.

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:04 pm

Rusty wrote:I don't think the rifle would stand the stress of actual use. A machete might be a better choice if it came to that.

Actually, before we built our 'covered shooting bench' we had to stand in mud to shoot at anything more than 25 yards away, so bayonets came in really handy because instead of taking a tarp so you could lay the gun(s) down without mudding them up, you could just stick the bayonet in the ground and leave them there when you used a different gun or went to set up targets...

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:04 pm

Kabar makes a bayonet for pistols with light rails...

A neat little conversation piece at $40 or so.

The M9 would break very easily because the bottom of the saw teeth weren't radiused and stress would snap them there. But I would bet that no soldier or Marine here snapped his M16 in too during bayonet drill. I had two such during one battalion's ONE weekend of bayonet training. I tried to charge the Company Commander with the loss. I mean, come on, command control...

But on a .444 Marlin?

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:36 pm

Bear 45/70 wrote:My policy with bayonets was and is. if I had to use one, then I have already screwed the pooch. I want my enemies to die no closer than 7 yards out and preferably closer to 20 yards.

Actually, it's preferable to call in fire mission or air strike.

But I'm just an old airedale. What the heck do I know.

TedH · Post by **TedH** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:57 pm

That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

kimwcook · Post by **kimwcook** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:01 pm

Didn't like the bayonet during boot and AI, don't care for it now and I think it's absurd to put it on a rifle. There's better tools out there.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:02 pm

TedH wrote:That's got to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

No, if they hung one of the old Garand bayonets, the real long ones, then it would be the most rediculous thing. This is only and exercise it stupidity.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:06 pm

Well, it's probably a little more useful on a Marlin then a Winchester, because we all know about that dreaded Marlin Jam.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:28 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:Well, it's probably a little more useful on a Marlin then a Winchester, because we all know about that dreaded Marlin Jam.

That made my day!

-----Sixgun

kaschi · Post by **kaschi** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:15 pm

Looks better there than it would on, say, a Luger.....

O.S.O.K. · Post by **O.S.O.K.** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:18 pm

This is not a new thing - they had them for the m73 muskets too IIRC.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:45 pm

Lastmohecken wrote:Well, it's probably a little more useful on a Marlin then a Winchester, because we all know about that dreaded Marlin Jam.

The "dreaded Marlin jam" is about as blown out of porportion as the quality of winchesters is.

I've several and never even had a hint of a problem. Then again, I have seen some late production winchesters I wouldn't own.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:56 pm

mescalero1 wrote:Absurd

Double ditto!

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:20 pm

Some folks just like to have ALL the accessories possible for their firearms...

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:25 pm

jeepnik wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:My policy with bayonets was and is. if I had to use one, then I have already screwed the pooch. I want my enemies to die no closer than 7 yards out and preferably closer to 20 yards.
Actually, it's preferable to call in fire mission or air strike. But I'm just an old airedale. What the heck do I know.

Either would work for me, but a knife fight, even at rifle length never appealed to me anymore than jumping out of a perfectly functioning airplane.

Post by **Chuck 100 yd** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:29 pm

You can gut your deer without even bending over!
Handy for hot dogs around the camp fire too!!

Wind · Post by **Wind** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:41 pm

Ahh, that aint nothin' boys. This'll get the job done!! (I'm not sure I want to admit to this) Wind.

Jaguarundi · Post by **Jaguarundi** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 2:33 am

The only things missing are the fold over Buttstock(black synthetic) and Flash suppressor.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:40 am

Actually I might like one - though not the big wide blade, more like the slim triangular ones used with muskets.

It might come in handy for moving through the brush. Point in, sweep up, and walk past.

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:20 am

I like it. Always appreciated a rifle with a pigsticker on it.

But then, jumping out of perfectly good airplanes is fun too.

Can't find the article, but a Royal Marine unit, squad I believe, was pinned down in Iraq. They made a bayonet charge and killed 20+ without loss. Thought I had it marked.

Don

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:46 am

There's also an article somewhere on the net about the .444 being used by some military person in Viet Nam I think.

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:13 am

Wind wrote:Ahh, that aint nothin' boys. This'll get the job done!! (I'm not sure I want to admit to this) Wind.

FWIW, Saint Browning developed his first gas-operated belt-fed Machine gun out of one of his Win 73s...

The old "potato-digger" MG of WWI was essentially a gas-operated levergun

Old Ironsights · Post by **Old Ironsights** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:14 am

Jaguarundi wrote:The only things missing are the fold over Buttstock(black synthetic) and Flash suppressor.

If you read the article, it HAS a flass suppressor. Without it the Bayonette would not fit the barrel.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:34 am

Probably speaks to the usefulness of the .444....One would never need backup with decent 45-70

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:46 am

AJMD429 wrote:There's also an article somewhere on the net about the .444 being used by some military person in Viet Nam I think.

Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver IIRC.

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:34 pm

Jaguarundi wrote:The only things missing are the fold over Buttstock(black synthetic) and Flash suppressor.

Now there's an idea. Why doesn't some ambitious aftermarket outfit make a folding stock for leaver guns. Black of course, with a matching fore end. Then hang one of the rails on top to which you atttach you red dot sight. You can add a flashlight or even a laser in one of WWG's tube mounts. Yep, stick on a flash supressor and you'd have an assault lever rifle. Anyone got any other additions that we can add?

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:41 pm

Don't forget the 40mm grenade launcher under the barrel. Might as well really screw it up.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:45 pm

Interesting. I'm working on a similar project, right now. A peashooter with bayonet.

The only trouble is that, being in a hurry when spotting moving game and picking up the wrong end, I've nearly put my eye out - twice.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:58 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:Interesting. I'm working on a similar project, right now. A peashooter with bayonet.

The only trouble is that, being in a hurry when spotting moving game and picking up the wrong end, I've nearly put my eye out - twice.

Well....that would be the last straw...

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:56 pm

BlaineG wrote:
JohndeFresno wrote:Interesting. I'm working on a similar project, right now. A peashooter with bayonet.

The only trouble is that, being in a hurry when spotting moving game and picking up the wrong end, I've nearly put my eye out - twice.
Well....that would be the last straw...

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:01 pm

awp101 wrote:
AJMD429 wrote:There's also an article somewhere on the net about the .444 being used by some military person in Viet Nam I think.
Jerry "Mad Dog" Shriver IIRC.

You are correct sir.

awp101 · Post by **awp101** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:17 pm

AJMD:
http://www.ultimatesniper.com/Docs/30.PDF

Ironically, pg4 has the .444 reference.

jeepnik, the scary thing is I pulled that name out of my head while at work. Took me 5 minutes to find the screwdriver I had just put down, but I had Jerry Shriver's name recalled within seconds.

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 12:15 am

jeepnik wrote:
Lastmohecken wrote:Well, it's probably a little more useful on a Marlin then a Winchester, because we all know about that dreaded Marlin Jam.
The "dreaded Marlin jam" is about as blown out of porportion as the quality of winchesters is.

I've several and never even had a hint of a problem. Then again, I have seen some late production winchesters I wouldn't own.

I only made that comment as a joke. However, I have experienced that Marlin jam in a 1894 (44mag), but I had a 444 Marlin that I probably should have kept, as it was a fine rifle, and I still have a great memory of taking a running buck with it, years ago.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:20 am

Lastmohecken wrote:
jeepnik wrote:
Lastmohecken wrote:Well, it's probably a little more useful on a Marlin then a Winchester, because we all know about that dreaded Marlin Jam.
The "dreaded Marlin jam" is about as blown out of porportion as the quality of winchesters is.

I've several and never even had a hint of a problem. Then again, I have seen some late production winchesters I wouldn't own.
I only made that comment as a joke. However, I have experienced that Marlin jam in a 1894 (44mag), but I had a 444 Marlin that I probably should have kept, as it was a fine rifle, and I still have a great memory of taking a running buck with it, years ago.

The truth is the "Dreaded Marlin Jam" is a problem with the 1894s only. The 336, 1895 and 444 have no such problem.

El Chivo · Post by **El Chivo** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:16 am

The truth is the "Dreaded Marlin Jam" is a problem with the 1894s only. The 336, 1895 and 444 have no such problem.

and only the 44 magnum I believe

Leverdude · Post by **Leverdude** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:49 am

AR-Trvlr wrote:There's a thread about it over on AR15.com - seems interesting from a technical standpoint..
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=2&t=281787

Heres a link to a topic on it in the MO forum. http://www.marlinowners.com/forums/inde ... 303.0.html In case anybodies interested in making their own.

I know the guy, he works for my gunsmith & can do great normal work too. Funny thing is I was in their shop last week looking at this very gun. Cept it didn't look like that.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:23 pm

El Chivo wrote:
The truth is the "Dreaded Marlin Jam" is a problem with the 1894s only. The 336, 1895 and 444 have no such problem.
and only the 44 magnum I believe

Not true, my nib 1894FG in 41 Mag did the Marlin Jam and went back to the factory. It seems it needed parts (the wrong lifter was in the gun) and remachining. It now functions flawlessly. Where before if you cycled 3 rounds through it without having to tear it apart only happened a couple of times.

madman4570 · Post by **madman4570** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 2:58 pm

Only one word for it!

Kludged

Use the gun??? then skin em with the gerber gator

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 3:45 pm

Bear 45/70 wrote: Not true, my nib 1894FG in 41 Mag did the Marlin Jam and went back to the factory....the wrong lifter was in the gun...

Bear 45/70,
That sounds to me more like an oddball factory mess-up, rather than an indicator that Marlin's are prone to jam with that caliber - ?

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:17 pm

JohndeFresno wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote: Not true, my nib 1894FG in 41 Mag did the Marlin Jam and went back to the factory....the wrong lifter was in the gun...
Bear 45/70,
That sounds to me more like an oddball factory mess-up, rather than an indicator that Marlin's are prone to jam with that caliber - ?

I know of two others FGs that had the 44 mag lifter in them, rather than the 41 magnum lifter. Neither of those needed remachining, just a lifter replacement.

JohndeFresno · Post by **JohndeFresno** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:13 am

Bear 45/70 wrote: I know of two others FGs that had the 44 mag lifter in them, rather than the 41 magnum lifter. Neither of those needed remachining, just a lifter replacement.

Great info - something to look out for. Thank you.

Cosmoline · Post by **Cosmoline** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 2:18 am

You have to use your imagination and open your mind. Way back when, the levergun was a weapon of war. Would you really consider yourself undergunned with that Marlin in the trenches of WWI? I know I'd rather have it than some clunky Lebel. Think of the bayonet levergun as the American trench gun that never was, but should have been.

Bear 45/70 · Post by **Bear 45/70** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 3:43 am

Cosmoline wrote:You have to use your imagination and open your mind. Way back when, the levergun was a weapon of war. Would you really consider yourself undergunned with that Marlin in the trenches of WWI? I know I'd rather have it than some clunky Lebel. Think of the bayonet levergun as the American trench gun that never was, but should have been.

The only "war" that the lever gun had any major use in were the indian wars and even then only on the indian side or in the hands of civilians, never the military. So no the levergun was never really a weapon of war, ever. As to you contention about not being under gunned with a 30-30 levergun, when everyone else was using 30-06 of bigger guns. Yeah, you would be severly under gunned, both in stopping power and range.

Post by **Hobie** » Sat Jun 06, 2009 7:43 am

The Turks used Winchesters at Plevna and the Russians used 1895s in an attempt to arm their army. The Canadians used the 1876 in suppressing the rebellion they had in the late 1800s.