Loads for the 357 Mag with Blue Dot?

[Gary]

With 357 magnum factory ammo as scarce as hens teeth, it is time for me to reload. My supplies are too limited to work up a load for accuracy in both my Ruger Blackhawk and Marlin lever. Do you have any favorite recipes for the 357 magnum using Blue Dot that you could share with me? Here is what I have:

1 pound jug of Blue Dot
100 Rem 158 grain JHP
500 158 gr RNFP lead bullets
400 CCI #500 primers
A bunch of once fired brass.

Please share any favorite loads you may have.

Thanks!

Gary

[Blaine]

I love BlueDot. Not quite the power of a H110 load, but WAY less powder. I'd start out at 9gr and work up 1/2 grain at a time to about 11gr max. You might go higher, but why? Blue Dot is not for light loads. Use a solid crimp.

[mikld]

Check this out: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/sho ... p?t=303766. May or may not apply to your use.

[Gary]

Thanks guys. I know I SHOULD work up loads but with only 100 Rem bullets to work with... Well, you get the idea. Alliant's max IS 10.2 GR, which I do not plan to exceed.

I know all about the Blue Dot warning from the 2 page topic on the matter here on Leverguns. I'm not using 125 grain jacketed projectiles.

[awp101]

I know all about the Blue Dot warning from the 2 page topic on the matter here on Leverguns. I'm not using 125 grain jacketed projectiles.

I don't see a warning on Blue Dot...

[J Miller]

The only load for BlueDot powder that I have used is 10.0 grs. I've used it with cast lead bullets generally weighing around 158 to 160 grs. In my Mdl 28 that is pressure sensitive that's max. In my OM BH, I have no idea.

Joe

[Gary]

Thanks JM!

I know all about the Blue Dot warning from the 2 page topic on the matter here on Leverguns. I'm not using 125 grain jacketed projectiles.

I don't see a warning on Blue Dot...

Here it is:
http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=1&t=8768

[awp101]

Thanks! I misread "2 page topic" as "page 2 topic"...

[Bear 45/70]

If it was me and I read that warning, I would NOT be using Bluedot in any 357 load. The logic that there is only a problem with 125 grainers in the 357 Magnum just makes no sense at all. While any 41 Magnum they say don't use it at all, which does make sense.

[Don McDowell]

With 357 magnum factory ammo as scarce as hens teeth, it is time for me to reload. My supplies are too limited to work up a load for accuracy in both my Ruger Blackhawk and Marlin lever. Do you have any favorite recipes for the 357 magnum using Blue Dot that you could share with me? Here is what I have:

1 pound jug of Blue Dot
100 Rem 158 grain JHP
500 158 gr RNFP lead bullets
400 CCI #500 primers
A bunch of once fired brass.

Please share any favorite loads you may have.

Thanks!

Gary

Alliant has 357 recipes in their online load guide.
You might also want to consider buying a good reloading manual such as Lymans 49th reloading handbook. Lots of recipes using plenty of different bullets and powders from many companies.

[Gary]

Does the Sierra manual still list "accuracy loads" in the reloading data?

[Brian in FL]

I tried the 10 grain Blue Dot load with 158 grain SWCs in my Marlin 1894C. The loads were all over the target at 50 yards. I'm going with 2400 next if the rain ever stops here.

[BrianSH]

Years ago 9.9 of BD with a 160 cast SWC, drilled a 3/4 group out of my 8 inch Dan Wesson. This should be a safe load with jackets too, as its not a max load.

- Brian

[El Chivo]

I got very good accuracy with .357 and 158 gr lead bullets and 7.5 gr Blue Dot. Kind of a boring load, milk jugs just went "thunk", not "kablooey". But it worked great for pistol cartridge silhouette.

I tried loads up to 9.0 grains and the accuracy got worse and worse.

I disagree that Blue Dot is not for loading down, that's exactly what it's for. I found this link on the Oregon Trail website, a guy did a lot of testing of powders. He describes Blue Dot as the ideal powder for loading down.

http://www.gmdr.com/

and their summary:

http://www.gmdr.com/lever/pistolpowi.htm

Here's the interesting part of it:

Conjecture 1) powders ignite in one of two ways, conductive ignition and convective (or flash) ignition. Where conductive ignition is defined as most of the energy required to raise any grain of powder to its kindling point (temperature of ignition) is via low impedance paths offered by physical grain to grain contact. This is how one grain ignites the next grain of, eg, IMR 4831. This is an artifact of the heavy deterrent coatings, high internal thermal conductivity and large thermal mass and hence sink each grain represents.

Convective ignition is where no physical contact (and hence no conduction) is required, but where each grain is bathed in hot ambient gases (from the primer or from other grains burning), and due to its small thermal mass the entire grain is raised to its kindling point whereupon all its surfaces spontaneously ignite. This is how all the double base disc powders burn. Flash ignition is a special form of convective ignition, where the entire powder charge begins burning simultaneously.

Conjecture 2) the heavy inclusion of nitroglycerine in the disc powder's formulation is no accident. Nitroglycerine when ignited generates significantly hotter and more gases than nitrocellulose. If this were not true then as the charge weights increased one would begin seeing coked, unburnt residues, which one does not see. The initial hot nitroglycerine gas comes almost immediately after the primer flash and supplements the primer in igniting all other grains.

Conjecture 3) the disc shape is not accidental. For the powder charge to ignite uniformly and consistently each grain must be bathed in hot gases and must not be sheltered from such by other grains. The thin disc shape acts as a sail and causes upon primer firing the charge to resemble a colloidally suspended solution: hot gas and powder particulates.

A corollary to this is that for a powder to be viable in said application, it must not be packable. This is why ball powders are unsuitable - a wavy edged disc with high sail area to mass is not packable in the context of a stream of hot primer gases. Pliable low sail area to mass grains are more inclined to be compacted against the base of the bullet and smolder, generating non-ignition, partial ignition, and either way very non-uniform ignition.

Another corollary to this is: if the sail area to mass ratio is great enough, then independent of the orientation of the cartridge and hence the location of the charge within the cartridge, upon primer discharge, one still ends up with a reasonably uniform mix of primer gases and powder particulates, ie, loads which behave the same muzzle up, muzzle down or muzzle level.

In Conclusion
A bicycle is not a modified car. CAS velocity (900-1250 fps) loads are not simply further reduced high powder loads. CAS loads are different; they require a different loading paradigm - the use of moderately fast, disc, double base pistol powders is indicated.

[L_Kilkenny]

My per load for my Ruger has been 9.5grs of BD under a 180gr XTP for deer hunting. Under 2" groups at 50 yards. Tried Lil'gun and titegroup and haven't gotten anything even close. BTW, Lee list 9.7 as max.

LK

[Gary]

Thanks for all the input, guys! This helps me a lot.

BTW - Didn't Paco write an article that had something about reloading the 357 with Blue Dot?

[Idiot]

Blue Dot is my powder of choice for full power 357 Magnum 158 grain loads. My previous load, before Blue Dot was altered, was 10.8 grains over a 158 grain JHP. Since Blue Dot was modified, about five years ago or so, I've had to reduce my loads to 10.4 grains. This load is still warm and attains maximum velocity for the bullet I use, but it is easy to eject after firing and is accurate in my guns. I shoot this load in all of my 357 Magnums, including my S&W M66.

BTW, Alliant hasn't admitted to changing Blue Dot, but their reduction of charge weight is as good as an admission. When they initially changed the load, I wrote to them to confirm their change (I had just loaded 2,000 rounds of my old 10.8 grain load and experienced over-pressure signs) and they said that the symptoms I had (sticky extraction, etc.) were something I should expect from a full power load. I told them I'd been loading this same exact load for almost twenty years and never experienced the pressure signs I now had and that something was different - they said Blue Dot was the same as it ever was. Anyway, don't believe Alliant, believe your results.

It should be noted that I still shoot some of my old 10.8 grain loads, but only in new brass and only out of my M28 and NM Blackhawk and Marlins.

Load what you like, but that's my story. And Blue Dot is still my favorite 357 Magnum powder for full power loads with bullets over 150 grains.

In addition and in response to those troubled about Alliant's warning and those worried about using Blue Dot for reduced loads: don't sweat the warning, it's there because Blue Dot has changed and old data and old powder charges create very high pressure loads with the new Blue Dot power (the change was several years ago - Alliant wouldn't need the warning if they simply stated that they changed their powder). Also, I've used Blue Dot in very reduced loads - 38 Special, 125 grains at 700 fps. It works fine for this application with only one downside, some powder dosn't get burnt sometimes.

[Gary]

... Also, I've used Blue Dot in very reduced loads - 38 Special, 125 grains at 700 fps. It works fine for this application with only one downside, some powder dosn't get burnt sometimes.

Can you share some Blue Dot recipies for 38 Special cases with 125 grainers?

[Idiot]

... Also, I've used Blue Dot in very reduced loads - 38 Special, 125 grains at 700 fps. It works fine for this application with only one downside, some powder dosn't get burnt sometimes.

Can you share some Blue Dot recipies for 38 Special cases with 125 grainers?

I think my "light" 38 Special practice load is posted to my loading room wall. I'll get it and post it.

[Blaine]

FWIW, I've used BD in all of my .44mag loads, as well. They have all been very accurate out of my 6.5" 629. I hope they do as well out of the new shorty SBH that I've bought from CEB...... I just don't find a need to shoot .357 or .44mag faster than 11 or 1200fps regardless of bullet weight. Why pay for powder to shoot out past where you can't hit?

[Idiot]

I just don't find a need to shoot .357 or .44mag faster than 11 or 1200fps regardless of bullet weight. Why pay for powder to shoot out past where you can't hit?

Because I can hit waaaaay out there. And, when up close, that 158 grain GDJHP is an all together different monster when it impacts 300 fps faster. Besides, I own a 357 Magnum for 357 Magnums and 38 Specials for 38 Specials - you savvy? Now, with the 44 Magnum, I shoot mostly hot 44 Special velocity loads in it, and for those I use Unique.

[Blaine]

I just don't find a need to shoot .357 or .44mag faster than 11 or 1200fps regardless of bullet weight. Why pay for powder to shoot out past where you can't hit?

Because I can hit waaaaay out there. And, when up close, that 158 grain GDJHP is an all together different monster when it impacts 300 fps faster. Besides, I own a 357 Magnum for 357 Magnums and 38 Specials for 38 Specials - you savvy? Now, with the 44 Magnum, I shoot mostly hot 44 Special velocity loads in it, and for those I use Unique.

What's waaaay out there for you? Really?
A 158gr @ 1200fps is hardly a Special velocity But, hey...if that extra noise and kick makes you feel better, have at it

[Idiot]

What's waaaay out there for you? Really?
A 158gr @ 1200fps is hardly a Special velocity But, hey...if that extra noise and kick makes you feel better, have at it

Waaay out there is around 150 yards and, thank you, it does make me feel better - and the target a lot worse.

Hey Gary, I looked for the 125 grain load over lunch, but was over come with sweat and had to stop. I will continue to look for it and when I find it I'll send it to you. The 125 grain load that's posted in my loading room was a TiteGroup load. I'll find the Blue Dot load - I hope.