Who would let their little child shoot a gun at an old car?

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 09, 2009 4:33 pm

Well, I would, especially if it were under the supervision of a 4-H shooting club and approved by local law enforcement...!

I was reading JimT's thread http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... 59#p209659, and thought about how as a kid the farmer upstream of us would get junkyard vehicles and push them over the embankment at the edge of his fields to stop erosion. Of course the environmentalists said how awful it was, but the engines and transmissions were removed, so there was no big fluid/oil leakage, and it DID hold the ground (in fact now, 40 years later, you can barely find any hint there are automobile carcasses underneath the lush river-edge growth now holding the soil). We'd shoot at them (of course) when we got a chance (all for 'environmental' benefit - the extra holes gave more purchase for soil, sticks, roots, etc...)

We ALSO went to the town 'dump' and shot rats scurrying from pile to pile of trash, and had a really good time.

- - - fast forward 40 years - - -

I didn't think my kids would get those good-old-hillbilly joys, because there are no more junked cars on the field edges, and no more trash dump (perhaps the latter is a good thing).

But their 4-H shooting sports group on the last day has a family day where the kids get to bring parents (and parent's guns) and range officers (mostly local LEO's) supervise all KINDS of fun shooting. The SWAT team even brings some M16's with .22LR adaptors. One of the highlights is usually shooting at a junk car the cops have on their range, and the kids just LOVE it. Of course the usual disclaimers are given "don't try this at home" and so on, which is fine, but a fun time is had by all.

So...if you get a chance, support the 4-H shooting sports where you are; you'll help introduce many kids to shooting who don't have places to shoot, or parents who would take them shooting. (Many of the kids there each year are kids who hear mine talk about how much fun shooting is, and say "I wish MY dad would take me shooting, but we don't even have a gun . . . all they have to do is sign up at the local 4-H office and they can learn about and enjoy shooting!) Many NRA banquets have raffles and auctions and games (where you can win guns...!) that support the shooting sports. They're called "Friends of NRA" banquets.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:38 pm

I wouldn't. Not a good idea to teach kids to shoot at things that can ricochet and come back to hit the shooter. I've got no problem with adults choosing to do what they want, as long as I'm not around them when they do, but I tried to teach my kids good gun safety, and shooting metal is not good gun safety for me.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:42 pm

marlinman93 wrote:I wouldn't. Not a good idea to teach kids to shoot at things that can ricochet and come back to hit the shooter. I've got no problem with adults choosing to do what they want, as long as I'm not around them when they do, but I tried to teach my kids good gun safety, and shooting metal is not good gun safety for me.

Don't think of it as unsafe... think of it as Darwinism.

How I managed to live through my childhood years is a mystery.

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Sat May 09, 2009 5:45 pm

I'm with AJMD, make it safe and have some fun.

Don

mklwhite · Post by **mklwhite** » Sat May 09, 2009 6:16 pm

If shooting at cars (the old junked/abandoned kind) got the shooter hurt or killed then most of the guys I know shouldn't be drawing a breath. I've known far more people hurt by climbing trees than shooting guns.

Post by **David** » Sat May 09, 2009 6:41 pm

Well from a person who, well technically fell through a tree from 4 stories, spent a year in hospital, lost a kidney, and going into hospital again Monday for yet another surgery so I can continue to walk and get my left arm working well again, I have however never been hurt by SHOOTING a car... Hitting a tree with one is another story. Someday I have to share the story about the woman who came over with my bone stimulator...
(Really this is a medical device)

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:10 pm

I'm going to keep my opinion private, but the NRA Rules board used to set the chickens at 25m, but because of ricochets (and several injuries) they found that the closest you could shoot a steel, non-fixed, target was 40m. That's why the smallbore/pistol caliber chickens aren't that easy.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:33 pm

Know what? Their kids, their business

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 09, 2009 7:45 pm

DavidFagan wrote:Someday I have to share the story about the woman who came over with my bone stimulator...
(Really this is a medical device)

jdad wrote:I'm going to keep my opinion private, but the NRA Rules board used to set the chickens at 25m, but because of ricochets (and several injuries) they found that the closest you could shoot a steel, non-fixed, target was 40m. That's why the smallbore/pistol caliber chickens aren't that easy.

Interesting how everyone assumes that as a kid we were standing right next to the cars (they were well OVER 100 yards away on a safe-backstop-forming river bank), and that at 4-H they were doing the same (range was probably 80 yards there). If it is too dangerous to shoot at a junked car at 80-100 yards with a .22, then you shouldn't plink at tin cans with them, either; there might be a rock in the dirt behind the can.

Besides, you'd have a difficult time getting bullets to ricochet back at you off of thin SHEET METAL, which is what cars are mostly made of. The non-fixed metal gongs are harder, and absorb some energy by moving, but the sheet metal not only absorbs energy, it allows the bullet to penetrate and deform. What little bullet would make it through a fender to hit a hard engine block would be already mangled, and not ricochet very easily back out through more sheet metal with a ballistic coefficient then of about 0.01 and a velocity likely under 100 fps.

Anyway, perhaps I should have specified that shooters were all 80-100 yards away from the vehicles. They were wearing goggles & hearing protection too!

(I will admit that as a KID, I wore glasses only because I couldn't see without them, and never wore hearing protectors when shooting .22's...

)

jdad · Post by **jdad** » Sat May 09, 2009 8:58 pm

Like I said, no opinion because they weren't mine and I wasn't there. I step in enough #2 so I can't judge anyone else. I just wanted to let you know what the competition board found out, at close range. I won't go near the IPSC or Tactical Rifle matches, for this reason.

horsesoldier03 · Post by **horsesoldier03** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:02 pm

As long as it was safe and supervised, it sounds like good fun to me! You can also view it as educational. Alot of kids fail to grasp the damage that the bullet of a firearm can acutally inflict. Knowing 4H, I am sure that the event was well executed!

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sat May 09, 2009 10:03 pm

jdad wrote:Like I said, no opinion because they weren't mine and I wasn't there. I step in enough #2 so I can't judge anyone else. I just wanted to let you know what the competition board found out, at close range. I won't go near the IPSC or Tactical Rifle matches, for this reason.

Thanks, no offense taken. I have had a ricochet or two over the years, but mostly when too close and too solid of a target.

There was a YouTube video though that showed some guy shooting a .50 Barret at what looked like several hundred yards, and the bullet actually came back and hit him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=DE&hl=de&v=mn0MFqP1js0

May have been fake, but makes you think twice...

Mokwaw · Post by **Mokwaw** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:43 am

Back in early 70's I had an Oldsmobile that threw a rod, that car sat in the yard for a couple of months before I called the salvage yard to come and get it. By the time they came it was full of .44, .45, .41, .38, .22, and even a few shotgun blasts, that it looked like a Bonnie & Clyde special. Lot of fun, never had a richochet expect for the shot pellets. Range was about 15 yds from my porch. My son was still a carpet crawler at the time, so he missed out on the fun.

marlinman93 · Post by **marlinman93** » Sun May 10, 2009 12:24 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
DavidFagan wrote:Someday I have to share the story about the woman who came over with my bone stimulator...
(Really this is a medical device)

jdad wrote:I'm going to keep my opinion private, but the NRA Rules board used to set the chickens at 25m, but because of ricochets (and several injuries) they found that the closest you could shoot a steel, non-fixed, target was 40m. That's why the smallbore/pistol caliber chickens aren't that easy.
Interesting how everyone assumes that as a kid we were standing right next to the cars (they were well OVER 100 yards away on a safe-backstop-forming river bank), and that at 4-H they were doing the same (range was probably 80 yards there). If it is too dangerous to shoot at a junked car at 80-100 yards with a .22, then you shouldn't plink at tin cans with them, either; there might be a rock in the dirt behind the can.

Besides, you'd have a difficult time getting bullets to ricochet back at you off of thin SHEET METAL, which is what cars are mostly made of. The non-fixed metal gongs are harder, and absorb some energy by moving, but the sheet metal not only absorbs energy, it allows the bullet to penetrate and deform. What little bullet would make it through a fender to hit a hard engine block would be already mangled, and not ricochet very easily back out through more sheet metal with a ballistic coefficient then of about 0.01 and a velocity likely under 100 fps.

Anyway, perhaps I should have specified that shooters were all 80-100 yards away from the vehicles. They were wearing goggles & hearing protection too!

(I will admit that as a KID, I wore glasses only because I couldn't see without them, and never wore hearing protectors when shooting .22's... )

A rock in the dirt will hardly cause a ricochet. A tin can wont even budge when hit unless you hit it low. Cars and rocks aren't the same, although I don't shoot rocks intentionally either.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sun May 10, 2009 12:39 pm

We need a law...

... to protect endangered derelict cars from wanton car hunters.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun May 10, 2009 1:08 pm

DBW wrote:We need a law to protect endangered derelict cars from wanton car hunters.

Benefits of Car-Shooting:

1. we keep dangerous and unsafe relics from the highways
2. we recycle
3. we teach people how unsafe a car is during a gunfight
4. we protect the environment from rusting hulks
5. we instruct young shooters about the lethality of firearms
6. we give those older shooters who never have shot anything but paper a chance to experience something new
7. we test the penetration ability of ammunition & projectiles in different mediums
8. we have lots of fun

(though the last one seems to be frowned upon by the FBI, Homeland Security, BATFE, the Brady Bunch, some preachers and even some gun-owners)

PS - we even shoot rocks!

I will try to post photos from our rock shoot next month....

J Miller · Post by **J Miller** » Sun May 10, 2009 4:41 pm

Who would let their little child shoot a gun at an old car?

Well, I would for one, and I don't need no LEO's around to supervise either. Matter of fact I DON'T want any around.

Shooting old derelict cars is a blast. It's actually too much fun I guess. Just like JimT said.

Joe

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Sun May 10, 2009 6:35 pm

This is a good time of year for me to shoot. The family plows up an acre of ground right at the range for a garden. Lots of rocks and dirt clods to bust at all different distances. Every thing from 22, 444, 270, 35 Whelen, 45-70, to 458 Win Mag is used.

Don

AJMD429 · Post by **AJMD429** » Sun May 10, 2009 8:58 pm

I guess now would be a good time to 'confess' that when I was a kid, I used to like to slide bricks and concrete blocks out as far as I could (usually 25 yards) on the ice and shoot them with my Super Blackhawk...

When a 240 grain bullet met the concrete block, the energy transfer seemed to reilably go towards fragmenting said block, and destroying said bullet, and nothing with much velocity or ballistic efficiency left the immediate area. Having said I would (and did) let my kid shoot at a junk car at 80 yards, I do admit I'd not let them do the concrete block thing so close up. Now maybe 50 yards.....

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sun May 10, 2009 10:08 pm

My favorite plinking target, hands down, is bottles. Always was, and always will be. The broken glass makes a real mess, and I know this is not environmentally PC (making me like it that much more

). Shooting at junked cars was a lot of fun - it's been a long time though. Bottom line, as mentioned here - for each parent to decide, and as long as it is fun, safe - and as a bonus, educational, no one should be able to say boo about it!

Nazgul · Post by **Nazgul** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:17 pm

Used to shoot in an old gravel pit when in the Marines. Someone dragged a car out there, I wasn't the first to shoot at it. Found out that a 500gr. FMJ from a 458 Win Mag would go through the trunk, backseat, frontseat, dash and break the intake. Could have stopped the car by firing at the trunk.

Don

Who would let their little child shoot a gun at an old car?

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