Beware if you ship anything UPS

[stormspotter]

Please excuse my rant, but I have to blow off steam.

On April 20th I shipped a Browning B92 357 mag. to TNTBigBore via UPS insured. It was put in a gun case and enclosed in a heavy firearms shipping box I got from a local dealer. Newspapers were packed tight around the case, between it and the box sides.

When the rifle arrived Neal notified me the buttstock had been broken in 2 or 3 pieces. UPS came to inspect it and I was notified today that they have denied my claim, because it was not packed properly. I asked how it should have been packed, since the sheer force needed to break the stock would have broken any packing material, shy of a steel case around it. She had no answer. It was mailed at a UPS shipping/receiving center, not a outlet store, and the receiving clerk had no problem with the way it was packed or sealed.

I am trying to contact someone to contest this to, but so far no one has returned any of my calls.

So, I just want to warn anyone using UPS that they can use "IMPROPER PACKING" to deny a claim.



Here is what it looked like before UPS worked it over.

[adirondakjack]

I've shipped leverguns multiple times with UPS without incident (I sent em back and forth to have custom work done.)

My method is to A) remove the buttstock, and B) build a proper shipping CRATE using firring strips to frame the box, and scrap luan ply for top and bottom, affixed with a generous number of drywall screws. The gun is padded with pipe "noodle" insulation and the seams of the box get a layer of packing tape to limit splinters.

The one box has made 8 trips, zero issues.



This is what works

[Bang]

I love letters.

No company likes irate customer letters as it is proof of someones mismanagement.

Write one to the Managing Director explaining the "simple" problem of damage.

No need to threaten, just request that they replace the stock due to the strange violent mishandling.

I am sure more than one NRA member or shop uses UPS for transport.

http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/c ... viewId=sum
http://www.reuters.com/finance/stocks/c ... viewId=bio

Just incase you need a few names !

cheers

[madman4570]

Thanks for the heads up!!Bang
adirondakjack---thats one heck of a great way to pack.
I am going to remember that.
UPS should make it right.
Thanks Guys!

[Sixgun]

Stormspotter,
I hate news like that, but jerks are everywhere, in every business as it sure seems like deliberate destruction.

Adirondakjack's box sure is kick-butt nice and is a good performance to follow. Eat crow and consider it a lesson from the "School of Hard Knocks".------------------------Sixgun

[marlinman93]

Yea, UPS should make it right, but they wont! They're constantly using this "you didn't pack it correctly" routine, and just as often they wont tell you how it should be packed. It's an excuse to make you go away. Go to an attorney and have him write them a letter explaining how it was packaged, and that you're suing for repair and legal fees. That hard case is an approved method of shipping, and they can't deny payment. Don't let those sleazbags get off without paying!

[Leverluver]

It is basically an automatic rejection on a claim the first time out. UPS operates not unlike Social Security disability claims or applications for patents, they are told to always reject the first application. Keep on them and climb the complaint ladder until you get satisfaction.

[buckeyeshooter]

I quit using them for EVERYTHING years ago. They have very poor customer service and the extra insurance is worthless because they are not honest when they are at fault. This is but another example of the way they operate.

[adirondakjack]

Ya know, come to think of it, the one time I had a damage claim with UPS (large Penn fishing reel I sold on Ebay) they said it may have been poorly packed and balked at payment AT FIRST.

I got the receiving customer to tell them the box was substantial, but obviously had been wet (package arrived a week overdue as it sat in a marooned truck during a hurricane) and we gave em a fair repair estimate (parts only, customer could replace em himself), and eventually they relented.

As above, keep working on em. Get yer LGS friend to say your packing meets "industry norms" and so on.

They break a fair amount of rifle stocks because long, flat boxes hang on conveyors and get squashed by other stuff or by some sadistic belt monkey who gets off stomping on em while they are bridged on two points. They will pay if ya work em over till they soften up.

NEXT time make ya a crate. Mine took an hour to make, cost like $5, and every time it's been returned, so I've got lots of use out of it.

[mescalero1]

AdirondakJack,
Can you give us the dimensions of the frame lumber?

[adirondakjack]

It's sold as 1X3 firring, a cheap lumber used as backer, etc where appearance is not an issue. In reality it runs a scant 3/4 by about 2 1/2". The alternative would be 1X3 pine, but ya'd pay more for "nice" lumber. The luan I got cheap, as I found a sheet with major forklift damage and bought it for a couple bucks. After all, I only needed a little of it. To dimension the box I literally laid the parts out on the table and ran a couple of strips ofmasking tape to denote the corners, then measured. I built a similar box to ship my 1872 vintage rolling block, (also got through unscathed).

[SmokeEater2]

I've shipped leverguns multiple times with UPS without incident (I sent em back and forth to have custom work done.)

My method is to A) remove the buttstock, and B) build a proper shipping CRATE using firring strips to frame the box, and scrap luan ply for top and bottom, affixed with a generous number of drywall screws. The gun is padded with pipe "noodle" insulation and the seams of the box get a layer of packing tape to limit splinters.

The one box has made 8 trips, zero issues.



This is what works

Excellent idea You have there! The next time I have to ship a firearm its going in something along those lines.

[mescalero1]

I thought it was 1x3 but could not be sure by using available reference points in the picture, thank you.
A capital idea, I will utilize it in the future.

[Old Savage]

Challenge the outcome of the inspection with a manager. I had a similar issue with a radiator. They eventually paid the claim.

[jdad]

That reallys sucks

The claim is handled through a 3rd party insurance company, not UPS. "Insufficient Packaging" is the standard answer. They hope that you accept their response and go away. Never call, but rather write letters. Keep them factual and include photos. The majority of my company's freight claims/damage are with UPS Freight and FedEx Freight.

Remember UPS stands for Usually Pieces Scattered.

[TNBigBore]

After seeing the nice packaging job Leonard did on the rifle, I will never use UPS again for anything, ever. There is really no excuse for this sort of thing. It is not like they are rough with boxes because they are so fast. It always takes UPS longer to get a rifle from point a to point b than it does with priority mail. Their system is simply broken.

You should not have to build a wooden crate to ship a rifle via UPS. I applaud the effort, but that is ridiculous for you to have to do that. When I ship via the USPS, I remove the stock of the rifle, bubble wrap the two pieces seperately and pack generously with news print in a shorter box. I have never had a rifle damaged by the USPS when shipped this way. I have received several rifles via USPS that were packed terribly and none received more than a minor scuff or two. The one time the USPS did lose some reloading dies I mailed to SC, they sent me a check within two weeks of filing a claim.

Tell all of your friens to boycott UPS. They are a joke

[cubrock]

Keep at them. As has been said, "Improper Packaging" is their standard first response. Go higher in the food chain and be persistent. I speak from experience. Took me a month of bothering them, but the eventually paid the whole claim.

[Mike D.]

The USPS is the ONLY way to mail long guns. UPS hires Gorillas and other great apes to handle their packaging. Their mantra is "get it there fast, condition of the package is unimportant".

[flb]

I use a different tack, my Mail Mart gal is great, I pay $7.00 extra and she packs it complete with correct box and packing. With her doing it and insurance I have never even had a question, well worth the 7 bucks plus she is cute as heck.

[Cosmoline]

I've had much better luck going with USPS priority mail, plus it's faster and cheaper.

[cubrock]

In my experience, USPS is almost always more expensive for shipping packages above 3-5 pounds than Fedex Ground or UPS. The exception is when you ship to places in the middle of nowhere or to Alaska or Hawaii. Usually for me, USPS Insured Priority Mail for a long gun costs twice what Fedex Ground does.

I've had Fedex mess up two packages - one they paid the claim and the other I didn't try because the receiving dealer was committed to telling them I hadn't packed it properly. In reality, I'm pretty sure he had dropped the gun and damaged it himself and was pawning it off on shipping damage. The stock was cracked and the shipping box showed absolutely no damage. I just ate that one. At any rate, I use Fedex Ground almost exclusively and am pleased with it.

[JustaJeepGuy]

You can't put a rifle in a USPS flat rate box, but for whatever will fit inside (up to 70 lbs.), it's the best value around.

[cubrock]

You can't put a rifle in a USPS flat rate box, but for whatever will fit inside (up to 70 lbs.), it's the best value around.

Flat rate does change the equation after a certain weight.

[Ysabel Kid]

UPS is a rip off. When I had my computer problems last November they charged me $160 to ship a package holding my work laptop overnight to get it there by 10:30am the next day, and it didn't arrive until almost 5:00pm. Cost me another day without my workstation. I complained, filed a claim, and they reimbursed me about half of the money. To add insult to injury the guy fixing my computer shipped it back to me, to arrive by 10:30am the following day, on Fed Ex and it cost $28! When I had computer problems again a couple weeks ago (remember my "blue screen of death"?), I went straight to a Fed Ex/Kinkos and they charged me $21 for the same express service. I've heard too many UPS horror stories of late. What can Brown do for you? Bust up a nice gun and then stonewall a claim...

Keep at them - and let them know the more they delay, the more negative press they will get.

[Nate Kiowa Jones]

I use USPS Priorty for handguns under $500 but you need an FFL to do that. you can send long guns without an FFL as long as they are going to an out of state FFL. In state here in Texas it's not needed.
For most long guns I use FedEx Ground. I have an account with them. When FedEx bought out RPS to form FedEx Ground they seem to know that UPS was having problems with gun shipping, so FedEx went to the NSSF and cut a deal for their members. I am an NSSF member and I receive on avarage 10% price break.
But more important, my FedEx Ground Driver is a private contactor. He owns the truck and is a small business man that will go the extra mile beyond what the hourly drivers of UPS will do. Over the years I have had some claims but FedEx has always paid.

BTW, this is how I suggest you send your levergun to me.

To send it, if you take the stock off it makes it much easier to pack. To do that, take out that one big screw there behind the hammer at the end of the upper tang. Now the stock will slide back and off. With it off the easiest way to pack it is to put it in a plastic garbage bag then roll it up in about 2 to 3 layers of cardboard, fold the ends over tight and tape it good. This makes for a tight package that won’t let the muzzle punch out the end. The forewood can stay on, no problem.

[Old Savage]

Packed that way it probably doesn't scream gun either.

[KirkD]

What Marlinmann said. Climb on their back and ride them into the ground.

[Old Ironsights]

You can't put a rifle in a USPS flat rate box, but for whatever will fit inside (up to 70 lbs.), it's the best value around.

I shipped 1/2 my 1886 to RKrodle in a flat-rate box. (stock & reciever = 7lb total weight)

I shipped the other 1/2 in a cardboard tube inside a priority mail cardboard "triangle" tube. (another 7lb total weight)

With $500 insurance (each bit) I think the total shipping cost was somewhere around $30.

I shipped it on Monday, it arrived on Thursday.