OT - .25acp

lever-4-life · Post by **lever-4-life** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:38 pm

Do any of you guys carry a .25 for self defence or back up? I have always had a soft spot for the little guy, when I was a kid I used a one as a woods pistol along with my remington model 34 .22 bolt(still have that one) but I traded the .25 for a .22 revolver (it made more since to use the same ammo) i have been thinking about getting another one for a some time now.

neil mitchell · Post by **neil mitchell** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 10:55 pm

Yes,I carry a Beretta .25 for a pocket gun.I know it's a "mouse" gun but it never ever jams/misfires. It is also very concealable.

Neil

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:13 pm

Not in a long time. My present 'back up' is either a Ruger SP 101 or a NAA Guardian 32 acp.

I had three, down to one now, of the small Colt 25's. One in each front pants pocket was very comforting to me. Corbon is manufacturing rather fine defense ammo for that chambering now. Many prefer the 25 over 22LR, because of reliability issues with 22 'mini guns'.

I would like to see a '25 Magnum. The 25 ACP extended just a bit, with a slightly heavier bullet at about 1,000 - 1,100 fps. That would be neat.

Post by **Ysabel Kid** » Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:26 pm

What, you want to irritate someone?

Sure, the .25 ACP can be deadly with the right shot placement, but other than it's value as a gun - with the hope that a display of any firearm will dissuade an attacker - it lacks any knock-down and/or shock power. You can get .32, .380 and even some 9mm in almost as small of a package as many of the .25 ACP's. If you really think you may have to rely on it, I'd opt with at least the .32...

jeepnik · Post by **jeepnik** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:55 am

I"ve got a little Berretta .25. I admit that I have used it as my only carry gun. But then, I was wearing shorts and flip flops. Kinda hard to hide anything else.

guido4198 · Post by **guido4198** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 7:54 am

A good friend of mine..LEO.. was shot with a .25 @ point blank range while engaged in a hand-to-hand fight and didn't even know he had been hit 'til the fight was over. Fortunately...he took the bullet in the lower leg.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:07 am

I have carried a 1908 Colt from time to time. Functioned flawlessly. The real reason for a .25 auto is not the killing power but the psycological power----------nobody wants to get shot, even with a .22-----because it leads to hospital visits which bad guys don't like or there is that chance for a face shot which nobody likes. --------Sixgun

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:18 am

Years ago I reloaded cast flat points for the 25ACP ... a 48 gr. cast flat point bullet at 1000 fps ain't a powder puff.

It is a pain reloading the durn things though.

Haycock · Post by **Haycock** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:22 am

.22 Mag would be better.....

.32 ACP would be better than that...

.38 Special would be better than that....

Wear shorts with a good belt and cargo pockets............

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:29 am

JimT wrote:Years ago I reloaded cast flat points for the 25ACP ... a 48 gr. cast flat point bullet at 1000 fps ain't a powder puff.

It is a pain reloading the durn things though.

Jim, funny you should say that. (on reloading the 25) I was at a show yesterday and a dealer had a set of RCBS dies for the 25 for $10. I was pulling out the green and then thought, "now I gotta get a mould." Then my little brain went further, "I never could find those empties" Naaaa-----------------------Sixgun

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:29 am

Hey Sixgun! You shoulda done it!

That 1000 fps was from a RAVEN!! From a decent .25 I am sure they would do better.

Besides .. everybody should reload with a magnifying glass and tweezers at least once.

jazman · Post by **jazman** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:41 am

I have a .32 Beretta Tomcat, the gun was created around the Win Silver Tip .32, and it packs a pretty good wallop for it's size. Fits nicely in a back Levi pocket and doesn't "read". Fires every time and hasn't jammed so it's a keeper.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:42 am

JimT wrote:Hey Sixgun! You shoulda done it!

That 1000 fps was from a RAVEN!! From a decent .25 I am sure they would do better.

Besides .. everybody should reload with a magnifying glass and tweezers at least once.

Sheesh, the microscopic 380 charges are hard enough, I could only imagine the difficulty of reloading the 25ACP!

There is always an abundance of pick-up 380 brass at my range, which is the only reason I bother.

Well, and being cheap ...

Post by **Hobie** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 9:54 am

Better than a knife. I was once told it was an ice pick requiring neither strength nor much dexterity to use.

I've been looking at Keltec's .380s to use with Buffalo Bore's new .380 ammo. Same size as my old (now returned to original owner) Colt Junior but lighter and better.

WinM71 · Post by **WinM71** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:13 am

I've always been concerned that anybody shot with one of those might get emotional and resort to violence,

ceb · Post by **ceb** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:30 am

I remember one time when I had a feller doing some dozer work for me. We got to talking about guns and he pulled a little .25 out of his pocket and shot a old fence post. When we checked it out, the bullet hadn't even penetrated its full length into the post. I went to the truck and hauled out the .357, it broke the post in half! Course...I guess it is a little hard to put a 4" Smith Model 28 in your pocket

.

cutter · Post by **cutter** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:48 am

I remember an old episode of "Cops" where a rather large man had been shot in the chest with a 25.

He was jumping up and down, crying like a baby , yelling." It hurt! It hurts!"

The cops were laughing at him. Makes ya' wonder.

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:48 am

JimT wrote:Hey Sixgun! You shoulda done it!

That 1000 fps was from a RAVEN!! From a decent .25 I am sure they would do better.

Besides .. everybody should reload with a magnifying glass and tweezers at least once.

Hey Jim, How do you like this for a picture? Next closest thing to a webcam. As I was reading your post, I reached in my back pocket and whipped out my 642!

tman · Post by **tman** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:13 pm

in hot weather, i carry a .32acp. keltec. i dnt think rambo would walk away after 7 slugs in the head. the mafia has sucessfully used the .22 as an excecuction round. no matter what you shoot, or what you shoot at, you got to place the bullets in the vital zone

pharmseller · Post by **pharmseller** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 12:59 pm

I talked to a LEO one time about the .25. He told me he knew of an incident where the bullet, fired from close range, failed to penetrate a heavey leather coat. Something about a through and through on the sleeve near the shoulder but stopped in the upped pocket. Guy thought the other guy missed completely.
Still, if it's the only gun you have on you at the time, better than nothing.

Quinn

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:13 pm

I've got a old (1920s mfg) Spanish 25 auto..Buffalo Brand.. Features it has are amazing....Grip Safety, Magazine safety, Trigger Safety, Internal Hammer.. I've always read that the Spanish pocket pistols are junk..This one sure functions fine & I don't see any abnormal wear on the working parts..& I've ran a couple of boxexs thru it.. I like it

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:35 pm

Besides the stories of how it failed, I have a number of accounts of one-shot kills with the 25 ACP. I know I don't want anybody puncturing me with one.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:58 pm

Before I could afford to shoot/reload centerfire, I carried a .22 AirLite.....still do sometimes.........If it's winter and it's wearing a coat, I would use the Wall 'O Lead towards the nose technique

oregon73 · Post by **oregon73** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:33 pm

I guess a 25 ACP fulfills the first rule of a gunfight (have a gun) but that is about it. The round does not have a reputation as a fight stopper and while I suppose one could get off a well-placed shot, I'd rather have something stronger when the chips are down. 38 Special and 9mm are as low as I go in a defensive round, with 38 Special+P being what I carry most often, in a Smith 642.

As always your mileage may vary. If you're comfortable carrying the 25 ACP, then by all means, train with it and carry it.

Rob

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:45 pm

oregon73 wrote:I guess a 25 ACP fulfills the first rule of a gunfight (have a gun) but that is about it. The round does not have a reputation as a fight stopper and while I suppose one could get off a well-placed shot, I'd rather have something stronger when the chips are down. 38 Special and 9mm are as low as I go in a defensive round, with 38 Special+P being what I carry most often, in a Smith 642.

Oregon73, That 642 of yours looks pretty new. Shoot that bugger till the cows come home!

S&W will rebuild it for you for nothing. My 642 has been done twice. Seems like it shoots loose after about 1500 rds. BTW, while you are getting the 642 rebuil, you could pack that FT! I love those guns.-------------Sixgun

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 8:54 pm

JimT wrote:Besides the stories of how it failed, I have a number of accounts of one-shot kills with the 25 ACP. I know I don't want anybody puncturing me with one.

That's the fist thing that always comes to my mind when people discount small caliber handguns. "Would you want to be shot with one? Not me!"

~Michael

66GTO · Post by **66GTO** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 10:29 pm

Hobie wrote:Better than a knife. I was once told it was an ice pick requiring neither strength nor much dexterity to use.

I've been looking at Keltec's .380s to use with Buffalo Bore's new .380 ammo. Same size as my old (now returned to original owner) Colt Junior but lighter and better.

I carry this in my front pants pocket. Kel-Tec P3AT & 19 rounds of Doubletap +P 90 gr. JHP .380 (1000 FPS from this gun). I can't imagine a .25 auto being much smaller and this is a lot more gun. I am center of mass accurate with it at 15 yds.

If I need more, I carry 11 rounds of .45 ACP in this:

sw41mag · Post by **sw41mag** » Sun Dec 30, 2007 11:55 pm

I've been an ER Trauma Nurse for almost 20 years and I can tell you that a .25 can be a fight stopper. You just have to aim for the face. Every person I have seen that was shot in the face (and I mean when the bullet never penetrated the skull) stopped fighting immediately.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:18 am

jeepnik wrote:I"ve got a little Berretta .25. I admit that I have used it as my only carry gun. But then, I was wearing shorts and flip flops. Kinda hard to hide anything else.

My Sig 220 .45 ACP fits well in the pocket of my carge shorts, without being obvious. But, then, I'm 6'2", and weigh about 250.

oregon73 · Post by **oregon73** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 1:52 am

Sixgun wrote:
oregon73 wrote:I guess a 25 ACP fulfills the first rule of a gunfight (have a gun) but that is about it. The round does not have a reputation as a fight stopper and while I suppose one could get off a well-placed shot, I'd rather have something stronger when the chips are down. 38 Special and 9mm are as low as I go in a defensive round, with 38 Special+P being what I carry most often, in a Smith 642.
Oregon73, That 642 of yours looks pretty new. Shoot that bugger till the cows come home! S&W will rebuild it for you for nothing. My 642 has been done twice. Seems like it shoots loose after about 1500 rds. BTW, while you are getting the 642 rebuil, you could pack that FT! I love those guns.-------------Sixgun

Sixgun, that picture of the 642 was taken shortly after I got the gun. It's been carried a lot since then and has a bit of wear here and there. It's good to know S&W will do a rebuild if I ever need. I do like how little it weighs, for carry, but it is a rude little son-of-a-gun when I shoot +P loads in it.

As for the flattop, it is from the first year of production, 1955. It's retired, for now. I've got other old models to do the heavy lifting.

Rob

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:26 am

Travis Morgan wrote:
Slick13 wrote:
JimT wrote:Besides the stories of how it failed, I have a number of accounts of one-shot kills with the 25 ACP. I know I don't want anybody puncturing me with one.
That's the fist thing that always comes to my mind when people discount small caliber handguns. "Would you want to be shot with one? Not me!"

~Michael
A better question would be, "Is the guy gonna get up and shove this tiny thing up my butt, if I shoot him with it?"

Well .. there are plenty accounts of people doing just that when shot with a .45 or 357 or whatever.

I am not saying the 25 is dead-certain .. but I am saying NOTHING is.

If a person's confidence is in the caliber of the gun they carry, then they have not shot enough stuff that bleeds.

Caco · Post by **Caco** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 11:44 am

Have the 32 tomcat and is nice little gun-a little wide for the caliber but slides into a pocket nicely. Magtech jkt hollow points don't even start to open up on water jugs, but gotta think 3 er so of these in ya would spoil yer future.
Got to looking at the 9mm seriously and was surprised. A lot of 9mm ammo equals or exceeds the 45 acp std 230 grn. for energy. I know thats paper balistics and that the comparitivly big heavy slug from the 45 is potent and there are hotter ones for that also. But after reading on the kel tec pf 9 I bought one. Like the width an weight. It,s narrower thwan the tomcat and about the same weight empty. the 9 is a half in taller and about a inch longer, but still fits the pocket and feels comfortable in the belt behind the back.
The tom cat is a cockable double action and in the cocked mode I get better placment with a short light gun. The pf 9 is double only with a long but reasonably easy trigger pull. Need to practice with the 9-have only shoot a couple of clips full of win 115 fmj. At 25 feet or so shoots 4-6 in high when squezzing them of slow. When in a more rapid fire mode had about an 8 in group. Like I said I need to shoot the 9 a bunch.
The 9 looks about half way between 38 and 357 for energy and the practice ammo is cheap. Right now a wallmart the win 115 white box 9s are 15.70 per 100. About the same price as 22 mag. Also wide selection of loads other places.
Kind of a hijack here, but as a comparativly new to 9 mm shooter, the comparison to the 32 tomcat was interesting to me

Dave

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:45 pm

I got a one shot kill with a 25 auto one time. About thirty years ago, when I was working on a large farm as a young man. It was in the wintertime, snow on the ground, and we were feeding cattle, like we did every day, during the winter and as we drove into this one field we spotted a pretty good sized dog chasing the cattle.

During those years, I always had some kind of gun on me that I was messing around with and on that day it was a cheap 25auto, I just happened to have in my pocket. The gun was a piece of junk, and later broke if I remember right, but it actually shot pretty good, for the small sight radius it had, and I had been shooting it some, so I knew the gun's capabilities pretty good.

It was a big field and I was able to run the dog down in the truck, and somehow I got a shot at it, from about 25 or 30 yards. I knew I couldn't hit it in the head, under those conditions, and aimed for the lungs, just like one might shoot at a deer, and got one shot off. I though I probably missed, as the dog took off at a hard run for the brush, It ran flat out for around a hundred yards and just fell down dead at the edge of the woods.

It turned out that I made a perfect double lung shot with the little .25 auto. I can't remember now looking to see if the little bullet passed all of the way through the dog or stayed inside. I recond that is the only thing I ever shot with a .25 auto, and it did the job, but I would hate to trust my life with one. Still yet, it would sure be better then nothing.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Mon Dec 31, 2007 8:54 pm

Good thing the dog wasn't trying to stab you when it happened.

Hell of a shot, though.

Rusty · Post by **Rusty** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:26 am

I have carried .25's in the past but I don't own one now. If I were to carry one I wouldn't want expanding ammo. I'd want something that would go as deep towards something vital as I could get it.
I had a friend once that swore up and down that the .25 would be great if not for two things. First you can't get one in a gun with any size. They are all tiny pocket pistols with nothing to hold on to and they have little short barrels. second the sight stink. If you put one in a Walther PP or something like that you'd have a winner.

This is a good post,

Rusty <><

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 12:30 am

Winner of what?

PPpastordon · Post by **PPpastordon** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 7:32 am

This is an interesting post with many interesting responses.

My favorite .25 ACP story goes back to Vallejo, CA, and dates to the late '60's. It involves Lloyd Schoenauer (Sp?) who ran the Vallejo Rifle Ranch.

Lloyd found himself involved in a gunfight with a man who pulled a .25 ACP and emptied it into Lloyd. Lloyd was, as the teller of the story reported, mad as hell! Lloyd laughed at that remark.
Anyway, instead of pulling a gun then (as Lloyd put it, he was no longer armed) Lloyd came over the counter and beat the stuffing (not the "s" word used by the storyteller) out of the man.
Shortly thereafter the police arrived, then the ambulance. Both men were taken to the hospital where Lloyd had, if I remember correctly, 6 of the .25 bullets removed and was sent home. The other man was (I believe the words were) bent, stretched, stitched and bandaged back into place and had to spend several days in the hospital before being released to jail.

I heard this story several times when I lived in Vallejo and frequented the Rifle Ranch. The only comment I ever was able to get about the incident from Lloyd was something like, "Well, he really did p--s me off!"

Happy New Year and Grace and Peace to all y'all!

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:00 pm

That reminds me, I was once neighbors with a kid who was pretty bad, and originally came from Denver, who ended back up there at about the age of 15 and got in some trouble, during which he was shot once through the heart with a 25auto by another kid who was defending his sister or something like that.

I don't know what part of the heart got hit, but it went all of the way through and lodged in the kid's back. Lucky for him, he was close to a hospital and lived, although some wonder if he suffered some brain damage over it. He later got into worse trouble and spend some serious jail time.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:09 pm

When I was in high school, I knew a kid that was about as white as you could possibly be, but appeared to be ethnically confused. Anyways, he thought he was a real hardass gangster.... until he shot his toe off with a .25.

Marlin .35 · Post by **Marlin .35** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:20 pm

This is a great post and a great topic, as I am trying to find a pocket pistol or revolver for pocket carry. Bought an Interarms Walther PPKS, but it was big heavy and not that accurate. Next I went to the Keltec P9. Could not get used to the long trigger pull and the poor accuracy. That one went down the trade drain. I have carried .38 snubbies for many years, and might have to go back to that. I am still in the process of shopping. Hope I can find a good .380 or .32 ACP, or lastly a decent .38 Special. Art

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 9:22 pm

Rusty wrote:I have carried .25's in the past but I don't own one now. If I were to carry one I wouldn't want expanding ammo. I'd want something that would go as deep towards something vital as I could get it.
I had a friend once that swore up and down that the .25 would be great if not for two things. First you can't get one in a gun with any size. They are all tiny pocket pistols with nothing to hold on to and they have little short barrels. second the sight stink. If you put one in a Walther PP or something like that you'd have a winner.

This is a good post,

Rusty <><

Actually, some of them do shoot better then you might think. The Berettas shoot pretty good, for what they are. I once had a little Beretta in 22 long rifle which was the exact same size as some of their 25 autos. I remember being able to kill snakes with it, at close range, and I once won some money in a bet after a Bullseye match, with another Bullseye shooter who was a darn good shot. I was playing around with the little Beretta and he sorta made fun of it, so I challenged him to a shooting match at the bullseye targets with him shooting his Highstandard Victor and me shooting my little gun, only he had to shoot at the regulation 25 yards and I got to shoot at 7yds. He was a top shot and placed his 10 shots all in the 10 ring, but I did too and I had more X's. So I won 5 dollars and my little gun gained a little respect.

So, if you ever go up against someone who has a little Beretta, you better take him seriously, because he just might be able to shoot it.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:17 pm

PPpastordon wrote:This is an interesting post with many interesting responses.

My favorite .25 ACP story goes back to Vallejo, CA, and dates to the late '60's. It involves Lloyd Schoenauer (Sp?) who ran the Vallejo Rifle Ranch.

Lloyd found himself involved in a gunfight with a man who pulled a .25 ACP and emptied it into Lloyd. Lloyd was, as the teller of the story reported, mad as hell! Lloyd laughed at that remark.
Anyway, instead of pulling a gun then (as Lloyd put it, he was no longer armed) Lloyd came over the counter and beat the stuffing (not the "s" word used by the storyteller) out of the man.
Shortly thereafter the police arrived, then the ambulance. Both men were taken to the hospital where Lloyd had, if I remember correctly, 6 of the .25 bullets removed and was sent home. The other man was (I believe the words were) bent, stretched, stitched and bandaged back into place and had to spend several days in the hospital before being released to jail.

I heard this story several times when I lived in Vallejo and frequented the Rifle Ranch. The only comment I ever was able to get about the incident from Lloyd was something like, "Well, he really did p--s me off!"

Happy New Year and Grace and Peace to all y'all!

I knew a black gentleman who was quietly having a beer one evening when a young stud began harrassing him. Not wanting any trouble he got up and made his way to the door.

As he went to step outside the young stud grabbed him and hit him. The older gentleman came out with a Raven .25 auto and emptied it into the young man's chest.

He collapsed on the floor and was DOA.

The older gentleman - he was in his 70's - was arrested for the shooting. A good friend of mine did the pre-sentence investigation and reported to the judge that the old guy should not have even been arrested.

Because he was carrying concealed without a license and because he had it in a bar, the judge sentenced him to 7 years probation. He did not do any prision time.

The puny little round saved him from a beating.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 10:32 pm

Dementia issues aside, I believe older folks should carry, for the most part. Last year, we had several elderly persons brutally assaulted in my town. These were generally strongarm robberies and carjackings, but the beatings were to an extent not necessary to get the stolen property and secure the criminal's escape.

Every time I hear of an old man that was a boxer in the Marine Corp or some such, beating the tar out of a twenty or thirty something thug that thought he'd found an easy mark, it makes me smile. GO OLD fanny burbs! Growing up ranching in the company of a bunch of old graybeards proved to me the truth in the saying about "Old age and treachery", as well as the value of taking no guff. If a man says he's gonna whip you, don't let him have the time to talk himself into it. Just kick the pelosi out of him, right then and there, and don't stop until he darn sure don't want to get up.

Ben_Rumson · Post by **Ben_Rumson** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:02 pm

Last year IIRC, a school teacher was killed by one .25 bullet in the brain from a 11 year old kid..

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:09 pm

A long time ago, our ancestors killed mastodons with sticks. What's yer point?

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:12 pm

Travis Morgan wrote:A long time ago, our ancestors killed mastodons with sticks. What's yer point?

It don't take much to kill a man.

Bosco · Post by **Bosco** » Tue Jan 01, 2008 11:13 pm

If you did carry a .25 you could conceal it under this shirt!

http://www.cafepress.com/cp/moredetails ... rNo=6&pr=F

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 12:10 am

Jim,

That's kinda my point. Flukes happen. Odds of stopping an attack increase with power factor. I guess I did sound kinda rude, though.

JimT · Post by **JimT** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 8:44 am

Travis Morgan wrote:Jim,

That's kinda my point. Flukes happen. Odds of stopping an attack increase with power factor. I guess I did sound kinda rude, though.

I didn't take your post as rude.

I cannot speak for others, but the few times I have had occasion to deal with armed individuals face to face, I never looked at what they were carrying as far as "what caliber is it?". They had a gun is all I was concerned about.

I did not consider whether mine was bigger or more powerful.

What I was thinking was about how I could get an advantage over them so they could not bring theirs into use.

Travis Morgan · Post by **Travis Morgan** » Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:46 am

Jim,

I hear ya. If you stand there thinking, "Man, this sonofagun is HUGE!", he's gonna kill ya. If you just start whooping on him, he'll cut down to size a lot faster.

OT - .25acp

OT - .25acp

Mature, or immature, humor.