Poll for 1895 fans --- 30-06 or .405 ?

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:46 pm

Alright 1895 guys -- if you can only afford one --- which calibre do you go for ? I lost my 1st auction for an '06 on GunBroker, now i am thinking of alternate calibers

The '06 is the most versatile caliber in the world -- but ------ some say its a bit too common (but Chevys and Fords are pretty common too, and most of us have at least one of those)

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:58 pm

06 is better suited as bolt or selfshucker.
405 smacks of raw lever power.
I don't find any lack of versatility with my 95 in 405. Load it down with lite 41 bullets, or supe it up with 400 gr cast. There's not much that can't be handled with that rifle. I use mine for leveraction bpcr competition, and just plain fun shooting , as much or more than I do for hunting

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:04 pm

There's nice ORIGINAL .30-06 SRC on Auction Arms. No bids, closes Friday. The auction number is 897889. If I didn't already own one like it, I'd go for that one.

Blaine · Post by **Blaine** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:32 pm

Different strokes for different folks, but my 1895 is a .405......"Big Medicine"

tman · Post by **tman** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:37 pm

30-06. combine it with an 1886 in 45-70 and your ready for any game in the world. 30-06 gives you a long range gun. 45-70 to hammer elephants.

jhrosier · Post by **jhrosier** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:57 pm

I have the Winchester 1895 in .405.
The cost of ammo and components is pretty high.
I got a chance to pick up a Browning 1895 in 30-06 so I bought it.
I can shoot the '06 as much as I want, cheap.
Both are great rifles but the 30-06 Browning suits me better.
I also like the absence of the added safety that Winchester uses.

If I was doing it again, I would skip the .405 and buy the '06.
For big-bores, I really like the 1886 Extra Light in 45-70.

Jack

rjohns94 · Post by **rjohns94** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:20 pm

.405 for sure

Sixgun · Post by **Sixgun** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:28 pm

Are you going for originals or new ones as the reasons for owning either are varied?----------Sixgun

crs · Post by **crs** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:36 pm

Don;
Could you share with us your .405 loads for the 400 grain cast?
You know, bullet, powder, velocity, accuracy, etc.
Thank you.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:45 pm

crs wrote:Don;
Could you share with us your .405 loads for the 400 grain cast?
You know, bullet, powder, velocity, accuracy, etc.
Thank you.

Charles I'm shooting the rcbs 400csa bullet (also use it in the wifes 4065 bpcr) That bullet drops from the mold at just over .412, I lube thru the .413 size die.
Favorite powder charge is 25 grs of 5744. Bullet seated so the driving band just out of the case. Due to the bore rider design and good meplat it will work thru the magazine at that length
Have not chrono'ld that load but would expect it somewhere around 1600 fps.
Accuracy runs about 6 inches at 270 yds. Have not papered it at distance, but smacking the 800 yd kerosene barrel is not a problem
Also shoot a .400 359 gr paper patch bullet with the same charge of 5744 and accuracy is good, and with some tinkering could be brought to extreme.

You can get that rcbs bullet from Montana Bullet Works, www.montanabulletworks.com

Lastmohecken · Post by **Lastmohecken** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:12 pm

From a practical standpoint, I would rather have the 30-06, but a 405 would be nice. I have owned three 1895's and prefer my pre-safety Browning, to any of the newer Winchesters with the rebounding hammer and top tang safety.

And I already own too many custom loading propositions. The older I get, the more common the calibers I prefer, except for my 348 Winchester. At anyrate, an old .405 will be too expensive to own and shoot, and I won't buy a new one, with the safetys, and rebounding hammers. Been there, done that, and I ain't going back, as they say.

leverlooney · Post by **leverlooney** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:15 pm

Why not have em both.

Got a USRAC TD in 30-06 and an 1886 USRAC Extra Light in 45-70. I would love a TD in 405. Should of bought that one in the classifieds a month ago.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:51 pm

I bought the old '95 in .30 Gov't '06 because my big caliber needs are filled with numerous 1886s. 'Sides that, it was too cheap at $650, with perfect bore and mechanics. Very tight headspace, too.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:00 pm

Sixgun wrote:Are you going for originals or new ones as the reasons for owning either are varied?----------Sixgun

good question -- i am going for a new (er) firearm. Most of The period pieces are out of my price range , which basically leaves the later Winny's and the Brownings within my reach, all of which i think are Japanese. I like the fact that Browning keeps a traditional safety (or lack thereof), but i dont dwell on it that much --- heck, my most used 30-30 is a later cross bolt safety rig. it only looks funny when its hangin on the wall
I am going for a recreational shooter and occasional hunter -- wild hogs are 350# at most in my area, which would be the biggest animal i would target -- either cartridge will handle that size animal easilly if needed. I like the short barreled variants , so i have been looking at saddle ring carbines (some of the dealers have these things in 30-40 Krag as well), but the carbine barrel on these is still 22", so it should not be too much of a handicap in an '06, not sure you can even get a .405 in carbine format, but it would be a neat alternative to a .45-70 regardless

trapper45 · Post by **trapper45** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:12 pm

Neither one, actually.

If I had my 'druthers, I would prefer a carbine in .303 British and a musket/rifle in 7.62x54R.

Not much likelihood of either at an affordable price, but it's a wish list, after all.

cpt Dan Blodgett · Post by **cpt Dan Blodgett** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:30 pm

I've got the 06 version, were I after african lions, TRs Big Medicine would be the ticket.

If you can't make up your mind go for the 30 US aka 30/40 krag

Post by **Hobie** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:31 pm

Mine's a slick .30-40...

Abilene · Post by **Abilene** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:32 pm

I have to plug the Browning in 30-06, I've used mine on every thing between prairie dogs and whitetail. It is just a good walkin' around rifle for me. I also shoot an origional 95 carbine in 30-40, but have you looked at the price of that ammo lately? If I had to sell 'em all the Browning would be my one gun. Abilene

Post by **Old Savage** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:34 pm

The only reason I would have an 1895 is the 405 or maybe the 30-40.

Kansas Ed · Post by **Kansas Ed** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:43 pm

An 1895 needs a rimmed cartridge IMO...30-06 and 30-03 were an afterthought. So to answer your question....405, 30-40, 303B, 35 Win, 38-72. Anything but the '06

Ed

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:03 am

Kansas Ed wrote:An 1895 needs a rimmed cartridge IMO...30-06 and 30-03 were an afterthought. So to answer your question....405, 30-40, 303B, 35 Win, 38-72. Anything but the '06

Ed

You do have a point --- why pay northern of a 1000 bucks (and thats at the entry level) for a rifle that would have a very hard time outshooting a $279 Mossberg 30-06 ATR with a $40 Simmons scope at 100 yards

But that is definitely not the point for having a high end levergun. However -- 30-06 "plinking ammo" can be had at Wally for 13 bucks a box still --- nice

I have a 416 and 300 weatherby if i want something that hurts me everytime i shoot it - i am not recoil shy, but there is a limit for people who dont shoot more than a couple times a month (the big 300 mags in a 8.5 lb rifle are at the limit -- a 45-70 Guide gun is a pussycat in comparison almost)-- i am just afraid if i bought a .405 --- it would be the same deal, especially with those sweet crescent buttplates -- i couldnt bring myself to put a slip on pad on one of those, plus i am 5'8" so a pad would increase the LOP too much ------ the 30-40 Krag brings up a very interesting alternative though

CEMENTHEAD · Post by **CEMENTHEAD** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:19 am

No doubt in my mind...405. Sure the ammo and components cost more, however it has romance and nostalgia. Isn't that why we shoot and hunt with leverguns? Thanks, Tom

Abilene · Post by **Abilene** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:29 am

Streetstar,

Week after next I'll be on spring break and will be stayin' w/ family around the Duncan area. If you want to try out a Browning in '06 and an origional in 30-40 come on down and you can shoot 'em both. Abilene

71fan · Post by **71fan** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:52 am

It's the only classic Winchester levergun that can shoot a spitzer bullet. The 405 doesn't really take advantage of that fact. If you're using it for hunting North American game, the 30-06 would be more useful, IMO. The 405 will cost you more to shoot, both in the wallet and on your shoulder.

You can see where I'm going with this....

As a side note, about half of the well used original 30-06s I've looked at show fatigue at the bolt and need the firing pin bushed teh bolt re-faced. Modern full load 30-06s seem to be right at the upper limit of pressure for the original 1895s, and you can find more than one source that will tell you to load down a bit for the older '95s in '06. If you haven't read this article on our site here, you should: http://leverguns.com/articles/model_1895.htm

If I were looking for an original, it would be 30-40 or 303B (which is what I have). If I were looking at Brownings or modern Winnys I'd go with an '06.

I agree with Mike D, in that I prefer the big bore cartridges in the 1886 and Marlin 1895.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:10 am

I went with the Browning in .30-06 more for the practicality of the cartridge and no rebounding hammer & safety.

Engineer · Post by **Engineer** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 6:33 am

Well, I have a '95 in cal. 270 and love it. I have fired a 405 a couple of times but my next '95 will be in .303

Terry

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:22 am

Well, all I have, at this point, is 30-40 Krag carbine. I have plenty of 30-06 reloads, but mostly for the ole Winchester M70, so I would lean toward finding a .405 caliber.

But wait!

It has to be in the right confirguration for me for the Model 95. In this case, that overrules the caliber.....for now.

I always say, when it comes down to choosing between calibers,,,,,,,,, Get Both!!!!

Cheers,

Oklahoma Dee

Pathfinder09 · Post by **Pathfinder09** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:13 am

I have an 1895 in .405 Win. that I love. I would like a .30-06 also but I never thought of the rimed case issue. How does a rimless cartridge function in the 1895? Does it have a different extractor and chamber boreing? Other than the obvious diameter difference of course.

Mike D. · Post by **Mike D.** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:33 pm

Rimless cartridges function just fine in the '95 Winchester. A rimmed case is not actually "required" for the action. I have never had an issue with my 1924 vintage carbine. Sure, downloading a bit is needed out of deference to the gun's age, but 2700 FPS with 165s is doable. I keep my loads below 45K PSI.

2ndovc · Post by **2ndovc** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 12:46 pm

I have an '06 SRC, 35WCF rifle and 7.62 Russian Musket.

The '06 is my favorite and for all it's wear and tear it has never let me down. Probably my favorite of all my leverguns and wouldn't trade it for anything.

It's accounted for a pile of white tail down loaded a bit with 125 Sierra Game Kings.

jb

finger toes · Post by **finger toes** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:08 pm

If only choice is between the two I'd go 30-06. If your wanting a powerful lever gun just stuff a few hulls with 220 grainers or 200 grain TSX. Mines getting the 338-06 treatment, 250 TSX will snort hard enough to span any gap between the two calibers and the lighter bullets will serve for everything else OK?

Pete44ru · Post by **Pete44ru** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 8:26 pm

My first 1895 was a .30-06 Winchester/Miroku, which I sold to get into a .405 Winchester/Miroku.
Which I later sold and went back to a .30-06.

Sure, the .405 had a better "wow" factor, and it resold for more than I paid - but the .30-06 is infinitely more utilitarian & flexible for my hunting.

.

crs · Post by **crs** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:56 pm

Don;
Thanks for the data.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:39 pm

ubecha

Slick13 · Post by **Slick13** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:03 pm

Only cartridges I'd be interested in an 1895 would be .30-40 Krag or .35 WCF. I don't quite understand why Winchester is pumping out all these .405 Winchester guns.

~Michael

4t5 · Post by **4t5** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:10 pm

Now that I'm 50 I can't rember squat, but "one of the greats" said that" the 30/06 is never a bad choice".I believe that to be true,especially when cruising the ammo stores ...what do you think they stock the most of?

buckeyeshooter · Post by **buckeyeshooter** » Fri Mar 06, 2009 8:30 pm

30-06, it is much more flexible.

Old Time Hunter · Post by **Old Time Hunter** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:07 am

Depends on your tolerance to pain. The original '95 I believe introduced both the .405 and .30/06 the same year...so much for designed for stuff. Also believe the first one's were chambered in .30-40 or .303 weren't they? That being said, I like my .405 but if I was going to get a do all '95 it would probably be a -06...can always load 'em to 30-40 specs.

Wildgoose · Post by **Wildgoose** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:42 pm

Hi All,
I have one of the later 95's in .405 and have found it to be a great shooter. Like Don I use it with cast bullet loads for lever gun style silhouette shoots. I have taken it deer hunting with good results. And its good for plinking using Trail Boss powder for light recoiling target loads. By casting my own bullets and keeping the loads light I get in a lot of fairly cheap and fun shooting with it. I really like the round a lot and even picked up a Ruger No. 1 Tropical in it. I did have to rework the sights in order to shoot it as my old eyes didnt do well with the buckhorn set up it came with. I have included a pic of my Marbles tang peep set up along with some test targets from working up the Trail Boss loads.
Cowboy Silhouette/Deer Load: Huntington #530 Hard Cast Gas Check .412", 36.8 grains IMR 4198, 1850 fps, 2.5" at 100yds off the bench.
Target/Plinking Load: Lyman #412263 300 Gr. RN cast from wheel weights and quenched out of the mold, 13 grains Trail Boss, 1200 fps, 3.5" at 100 yards off the bench.

Streetstar · Post by **Streetstar** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:11 pm

Now that looks like pretty good 100 yd performance for an antique format firearm with open sights------- Of course how can i be impressed after i watched "Quigley Down Under" for the first time in a long time last night

I love that movie --- real world results are more imporessive though

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:32 pm

Yes the 405's can be quite accurate. This group 100 yds 4 shots , 300 gr Northfork, 57 grs of rl 12 , cci large rifle primers.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:35 pm

Heres the lyman 412263 bullet cast from wheelweights ,28 grs of 5744, 50 yds sitting.

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 10:37 pm

The Hornady 300 gr bullets are capable of minute of elk at 150 yds also.

salvo · Post by **salvo** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:00 pm

I guess I will represent the 06

I have only shot jackeded in my .30-06, here is a 180gr load using military brass.

Using the stock sights my 100 yard groups open up to around 2+". I need a peep sight!
I wish my target was an Elk

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:51 pm

Hey Don, Great info and pictures! I am interested in your powder rl12, Not sure about it. It's Alliant powder for a rifle right? Give me the low down on it!

Thanks Big time!
Oklahoma Dee

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:19 pm

RL12 was discontinued a few years ago. Alliant thought it and rl 15 to close to justify having them both so they dropped 12. IMR 4320 is a good choice for powder in the 405.

okdee · Post by **okdee** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 10:49 am

Thanks Don! At this time, all I have is the 30-40 Krag, Model 1895 Carbine. What are your thoughts concerning that round with this powder?

I appreciate your time and thoughts

Oklahoma Dee

Don McDowell · Post by **Don McDowell** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:06 am

Okdee I have very little hands on experience with the 30-40. What little I do have was done with 180 gr winchester factory loads, so I'm really not in a position to comment on powders for it.
I can say that if someday I had the extra jingle in my pocket some variation of the 95 in 30-40 would sure be high on my list of gun aquisitions.

RIHMFIRE · Post by **RIHMFIRE** » Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:30 am

lower 48 all you need is the '06...
if you ever plan to go to alaska or africa....then pick 405....
buddy just got the 405....and its a blast to shoot....
405...your gonna have to reload....re $s