Martini Cadet redux-UPDATE!

[awp101]

I had my spare Cadet up for sale in the classifieds recently. Thought I had it sold but but it tweren't to be. Started to relist it and just couldn't bear the thought so I decided to move forward with a project I've wanted to do for a while.

Just so we're clear, it has NO collector value left so I'm not taking an all original and modifying it. The barrel has pitting near the end of the muzzle, all the wood has been refinished, etc.

My main question right now is rebore or rebarrel? OK, more like my second main question since the first is what caliber.

Calibers I considered:

.256 WinMag since I've never had one and have plenty of .357 Mag brass but decided against it since if I didn't like the round for some reason I'd be back to square one. Makes more since to get a Contender barrel if I want to play with that caliber (and I KNEW I should have jumped on the T/C 10" barrel and loading dies I ran across at a show for $225! DOH!).

.32-20 - Have a T/C barrel already and ammo but it just doesn't grab me for this project.

.357 - still in the running for many reasons including economy, usefulness and caliber commonality. Probably the leader in the clubhouse.

.22-250 - not sure about this one since I don't know the pressures involved or if it's too long for the action. DeHaas doesn't mention it's use in a Cadet in any of his books (at leat not that I can find) so I'm stuck until I get more info. I'm pretty sure the action is good for it since they were rebarreled into .222 and .223 (and if the guy I ran into with one for sale in .223 had been willing to haggle more than $25 on a $900 rifle in it probably would have followed me home ).

I'd like an 18-20" barrel, not sure about the contour though. I like heavier barrels but I don't think it would look right. I can't find any Cadet specific barrels anywhere so I guess I'll have to order a blank and have it threaded and chambered, right?

Now iffns I can get my way and it doesn't cost and arm and a leg, I'd REALLY like to do this:

That Cadet is set up to switch barrels (in this case .17 Bee and .218 Mashburn Bee) and I could see doing a .357 and .256 barrel set since they use the same case. More custom Martini pics are here: http://www.martinigallery.com

I'm open to thoughts, suggestions and help right now so let me know what you think!

[Rusty]

I haven't had a rifle in .357 Mag for long time and I'm getting in the time when I think it's time to thin the heard anyway. I'm thinking that a .357 would cover a lot of bases.

Between a .223, a .357, and a .308 what else would I really need?

[bsaride]

I have a Martini project as well, lol. Along with high and low wall winchesters, 1903, 1917.
Way too many but my goal is to work on these this year. I looked over the link site calibers
and was thinking that the 22 Hornet might be a good choice.

[awp101]

I have a Martini project as well, lol. Along with high and low wall winchesters, 1903, 1917.
Way too many but my goal is to work on these this year. I looked over the link site calibers
and was thinking that the 22 Hornet might be a good choice.

Great, we can form a support group!

I thought about the Hornet but I've already got two Hornet single shots and I want my next one to be a CZ bolt action.

[bsaride]

Ok then you need to decide which "niche" to fill

218 Bee
22 Hornet
223
25-20
256 Win Mag
32-20
357 Mag

".223 (and if the guy I ran into with one for sale in .223 had been willing to haggle more than $25 on a $900 rifle in it probably would have followed me home)."


Found at martinirifles.com :

Martini rifles – Rifles built in a variety of styles to meet the individual tastes of our clients. We build Schuetzen, Rook and Varmint. The most popular calibers are 17 HRM, .22LR, 218 Mashburn Bee, 30-20, and 25-20. Other calibers available.


Here looks like a good links page:

http://www.martinihenry.com/links.htm

That's what I come up with without looking into it too deeply.

Jay

[awp101]

Thanks bsa, I have http://www.martinihenry.com/links.htm bookmarked but somehow missed the other link. Looks like I need to drop them an email.

[C. Cash]

The 357 Mag makes alot of sense, and you keep the gun in the same configuration. I don't know what carving out the bore to 357 would do to how the gun feels, but the Cadet just feels like perfection in it's 310 configuration...would imagine the rebore would change te balance point by much. This gun as it is balances and carries like a fine 94 Win. That's what I would do to keep it as original as possible, and by going to 357 Mag. you can plink or hunt squirrels with the light stuff and go full throttle for Deer or Hogs. The amount of factory ammo and reloading bullet/components for this caliber makes it very versatile.

[marlinman93]

If you're going for a multi barrel set then the .256 and .357 are great, but why not just go .357 Maximum, and .256? The action will handle either, and then you can still shoot .357 magnum in it.

[awp101]

My understanding from doing a search over at the ASSRA Forum is that not all Cadet actions will feed the Max.

[2ndovc]

At one time I had about a dozen Martinis and Cadet rifles. Original and heavily customized.
One year I had an attack of the Dumb *** and sold all but one of them.

About two years ago I spotted a cadet that had been sporterized and re-bored to .357mag.
Got it to the range and couldn't do better than 6" at 50 yds.
Slugged the bore. .360"!

I spent some time deciding what to do with it.
.256, .25-20, .218, 32-20. etc.

I finally settled on .25-20 because I had components and ammo and
nothing to shoot it out of. Was going to do .256WM unti I looked up brass and dies!


New barrel. A tang sight and Globe front I had left over from my
earlier collection. A light reblue and ended up with a real tack driver.


jb

[cas]

You couldn't pay me to shoot a cadet in .22-250


I'd like to have one in original dress, chambered for .357 Mag. It would be a featherweight stalking rifle for deer.

[Bruce Scott]

This is my .357 sporter built on a W.W. Greener action. The sight is a Redfield with a long shank Merit adjustable aperture. It gives me 1" groups at 50 yds and seems to prefer lighter loads.

[O.S.O.K.]

How about a .327 Federal Mag? That'd be cool. You'd be the only kid on the block with one.

Should be able to push a 100 grain XTP out at around 1700 fps from a rifle...

Of course, the 32-20 can do that too.... and more.

What do you want to do with it pray tell? That'd determine what I'd do with it...

[awp101]

Here's one of the rifles done by the 'smith in bsaride's post: http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish ... t/14.shtml

Pretty but so far I'm in sticker shock...

2ndovc, I've done stuff like that before. A handful of Colt 1903 .32ACPs come to mind....DOH! .25-20 is a necked down .32-20, right?

cas, after firing one in .32 Win Special I have no fear of one in .22-250. Besides, it's a soft shooter in my BLR!

Bruce, I like it! Both of mine are BSAs but if I can I'm going to try and get my hand on some more actions eventually.

OSOK, I thought about that and the .32 H&R Mag. What do I want to do with it? I dunno, knock down 747s? Actually, this will be just part of the "fun guns". Just something I want to enjoy shooting and looking at.

[airedaleman]

I'd be TERRIFIED of a Martini Cadet chambered for the .22-250! I do not beleieve the action is strong enough for that cartridge, and the barrel shank isn't big enough in diameter to contain .22-250-level pressures. Some even questioned the .32 Special rechambering of Cadets when they first appeared on the American markey back in the 50's

P.S. Don't think the action is long enough either, thank God. Otherwise we probably would be reading about blown-up Cadets
with a fair degree of regularity...

[awp101]

airdaleman, the .22-250 thought was just that, a thought. Since I can't get the bookmark I have on SAAMI specs to open (it's on Paco's homepage which is down with server problems) I haven't verified the pressures. And I do think the action is too short anyway.

Having owned one of those .32WS Cadets before I can say the issue probably isn't the receiver, it's saving up for the shoulder rebuild! Bought it at one show, fired it three times the next weekend and promptly sold it a week or two later to a friend on another board who wanted the action.

Now I've never had a "custom" anything built before but the one quote I've received is amazing to me. Premium barrel tuned round, threaded, fitted, chambered, “T”-nuts cut for the forend, drilled and tapped for scope, target crown, blued, firing pin bushed, plain black walnut in one of several styles and the receiver blued to match the barrel is just shy of $1K. The email was more specific with info but that's the nuts and bolts. That's the bare minimum that I would have done, it doesn't take into account the possibility of making a switch barrel which was discussed but not quoted yet.

Now I stated I didn't want anything fancy or competition grade accuracy, just something I can shoot and enjoy. Are my expectations regarding pricing out of touch and am I asking for something too basic for most 'smiths to realize that I don't want a "bespoke" level firearm? I'm not upset with the 'smith or anything, just sticker shocked more than anything else I suppose.

Perhaps a call or two is in order Monday to him and another 'smith I've been made aware of so I can get a better feel for things.

[marlinman93]

My understanding from doing a search over at the ASSRA Forum is that not all Cadet actions will feed the Max.

From what I've heard it's simply a matter of modifying that trough in the top of the breechblock to allow it to clear and chamber.

[mergus]

I wished I hadn't seen this thread....now I want one in 32-20. Lemme see, it should have a straight grip, low profile peeps, and a continental style raised cheeckpiece. That would be fun.
I really wished I hadn't seen this thread....

Mergus

[awp101]

mergus, it's not the first time I've been considered a bad influence...

[mescalero1]

Same here, married women back in New Mexico look down & spit on the ground every time my name gets mentioned!

[3leggedturtle]

256 WM: have on in T/C 24" bull. 87gr Hornady do 2350fps and blow the begeezers out of pop bootles plus its still accurate to do a 3" inch group at 200 yards. As a plus you can also form it out out of 221,222 and 223 brass.

[Ysabel Kid]

Another for the .357 Magnum... you can't go wrong with it!

[awp101]

Well, I wound up finding a one on the ASSRA forum already set up mostly the way I wanted!

357 Cadet1.jpg

357 Cadet2.jpg

The original barrel was rebored to .357 and a Martini 12/15 buttstock (and I believe forearm) fitted. I wasn't sure about the buttstock since I'd never handled a 12/15 before but I'm a firm fan now! Just need to find a buttplate since it doesn't have one.

[reddnek]

If I had one my choice would be 32-20

[Mokwaw]

Personally, I would choose .222 Rem. The 3 rifles I have dealt with (Rem 700, Rem 600, Savage 340) have been extremely accurate.

[jhrosier]

If I had a small Martini action laying around, it would become a .17 Ackley Hornet real quick.
I've wanted one of them for years to turn some crows into little clouds of pink mist.

Jack

[awp101]

I wish I had a place to make stuff turn into red mist!

Right now I'm debating between a .22LR, .22 H (or KH) and a .32 H&R Mag for my next (IF I can make anything happen).

[Bang]

Do like we did here in Australia - .222 Rimmed.

[Pete44ru]

I'm glad you got one in a safe chambering - but you still have one that can tempt you.

[.22-250 - not sure about this one since I don't know the pressures involved or if it's too long for the action.] - NOT ! - (see below) The .22-250, .223, .225 Win, etc are all high-pressure cartridges, and not lower-pressure rimmed cartridges designed for weaker, break-open actions. (even though the .225Win has a rim)

[DeHaas doesn't mention it's use in a Cadet in any of his books (at leat not that I can find) so I'm stuck until I get more info.] - (see below)

[ I'm pretty sure the action is good for it since they were rebarreled into .222 and .223 (and if the guy I ran into with one for sale in .223 had been willing to haggle more ] - It was probably being sold due to pressure problems (see below).

From Frank de Haas' book- Mr. Single Shot's Gunsmithing Idea Book:

"I consider it more than equal in strength to the larger action, however, being small and having a small barrel shank, it should be limited to the smaller rimmed cartridges like the .22H, .218 Bee, .22 Jet, .222 Rimmed, 5.6x50R (rimmed), 25.20, .256 Win, .357, and wildcat cartridges based on these cases.
The action is OK for the .219 Zipper and the .32 Special, but not for any wildcat cartridge based on this case.
It is not an action to use for the .225 Winchester.
With a suitable extractor alteration, this action can be used with a rimless cartridge, however I would limit the selection to the .221 Fireball and .222 Remington cartridges ONLY.
This action, of course, is ideal for all rimfire cartridges.
Longer cartridges, appropriate for this action, like the .219 Zipper and the .32 Special, are disproportionately large for the action, not convenient for loading/unloading, and the recoil is rather heavy due to the lightness of the rifle."

.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'd go 256 Win Mag. I don't know why ... just something about it.

[awp101]

I'm glad you got one in a safe chambering - but you still have one that can tempt you.

Yeah, I'm a confirmed small to medium caliber junkie.

The .22-250 was just a thought since I didn't have the pressure offhand and I didn't think to check the gunsmithing idea book.. Of course without the pressure, it still would have been meaningless.

I had one in .32WS. Never again...

[Engineer]

Do like we did here in Australia - .222 Rimmed.

Great calibre 222R. Plenty of Martinis down under in that calibre. Back in the 1960s and 70s one of the most popular fox rifles around.

TB

[Hobie]

I would use the original cartridge despite the expense but that is too boring, isn't it. My first alternative would be to reline to .32-20.

[awp101]

I would use the original cartridge despite the expense but that is too boring, isn't it. My first alternative would be to reline to .32-20.

I'm keeping it's mate in .310. I think a .22 just made it to the short list though.

I do believe the one I was going to use as a base for the original project will be put back up for sale. I'm told there's enough collectors who want a shooter for their collection that I can get probably work a deal for an already modified Martini for my Cadet.