Best single black powder for multiple applications

[Hobie]

I have a .45-75 with which I'm still experimenting. I also shoot and hunt a .75 cal flintlock musket as well as .36, .45, and .54 caplock rifles, and three different .44 percussion revolvers. I'm ok with Pyrodex in the later but would like to use BP in the .45-75 and must in the musket. Thus the question...

Given possible future circumstances which might restrict availability of BP, what ONE BP should I buy now for use in both the .45-75 and flintlock musket?

[kimwcook]

I'm no expert, with that out of the way, I'd probably say 2F. Now comes the caveat, you'd probably be better served in the 45-75 with Goex cartridge or express. I don't know how that would work in the musket. I'd buy a pound of cartridge or express and see how it does. That's if you use Goex. If you use Swiss, Elephant or something else, well I don't know what to tell you as I only use Goex.

[flatnose]

Hobie,
I think that 2f should work for both. Here is their site.http://www.goexpowder.com/product-blackpowder.html

[rjohns94]

+1 for 2f I use it for 45-70 though I had good success with goex cartridge. I prefer ScottT 's load of 70 grain Goex Cartidge, BR2 primer, .030 veg wad, SPG lube, compressed to grease groves, firm crimp.


I have to buy 4f too for priming the flashpans of the .58 pistol and .54 rifle.

[Gobblerforge]

I love these theoretics. In my situation I can shoot 45 colt Army, 45 Kentucky, 50 Hawken and 12 gauge double. So FF and FFF are both better to have. If one really feels this situation could arise, and I do, and if you have the ability to get them now, and we do, do so. However, that being said, consider being in that situation. In my world the recreational shooting stops or slows dramatically if supply stops. Like most shooters, if this arose, we are probably sitting on enough ammunition to eat for years or life. This is using the old time expectation of there being some kind of a game harvest attempt with every shot, such as one rabbit or squirrel for every 22 cartridge in a box. Now if you use a pound of powder for only hunting purposes, it goes a long way, and I mean years. So a couple of pounds could Carry you for life. This bases on another old time thinking that "Do I have enough to carry me until I have the opportunity to get more?". Sure. If supply stopped, bootleggers will start up and supply will resume. It's black powder and we already know how to make it. So therefore, at some time in the next year, I will be in contact with someone, somewhere who knows a guy, who might know where...............
Gobbler

[Modoc ED]

I don't shoot black powder so I can't help you but I do have only one more thing to lay a good supply of in and that is powder. I just received a good supply from MidwayUSA and will be placing another order by the end of the week.

My UPS driver (a fellow shooter) who knows that I buy powder and primers and have them shipped via UPS says that there is talk/memos circulating through UPS about no longer delivering "explosives" to residential addresses -- only licensed commercial businesses.

[Don McDowell]

Goex Cartridge. Not the fastest powder in the world, but has prooven quite accurate in a number of rifles here, and has a nice soft fouling. Plus you can get it in 25 lb bags from a properly setup Goex distributor.

[w30wcf]

Hobie,
Original .45-75 black powder cartridges used 1F to 2F powder depending on the manufacturer. I would suggest Schutzen 2F as I find that its fouling is softer than Goex, allowing more shots from a repeating rifle before accuracy starts to deteriorate. Swiss is the best, but it is a bit pricey.

I don't know how close you are to Winchester, VA but this fellow is super to deal with.
http://www.blackpowderva.com/

w30wcf

[Don McDowell]

Hobie,
Schutzen 2F as I find that its fouling is softer than Goex, allowing more shots from a repeating rifle before accuracy starts to deteriorate. Swiss is the best, but it is a bit pricey.

w30wcf

John I hate to disagree with you, but, I find that Schutzen leaves no harder fouling than Goex, and in my rifles hasn't produced the accruacy.
Swiss leaves some of the hardest nastiest red gunk in a barrel ever to be found,and the myth/legend surrounding it far exceeds its capabilities. Schutzen is by far the better of the imported powders,price and function wise.

[Hobie]

I love these theoretics. In my situation I can shoot 45 colt Army, 45 Kentucky, 50 Hawken and 12 gauge double. So FF and FFF are both better to have. If one really feels this situation could arise, and I do, and if you have the ability to get them now, and we do, do so. However, that being said, consider being in that situation. In my world the recreational shooting stops or slows dramatically if supply stops. Like most shooters, if this arose, we are probably sitting on enough ammunition to eat for years or life. This is using the old time expectation of there being some kind of a game harvest attempt with every shot, such as one rabbit or squirrel for every 22 cartridge in a box. Now if you use a pound of powder for only hunting purposes, it goes a long way, and I mean years. So a couple of pounds could Carry you for life. This bases on another old time thinking that "Do I have enough to carry me until I have the opportunity to get more?". Sure. If supply stopped, bootleggers will start up and supply will resume. It's black powder and we already know how to make it. So therefore, at some time in the next year, I will be in contact with someone, somewhere who knows a guy, who might know where...............
Gobbler

Not the question, but can't argue with your reasoning. Having lived where everything was gotten through a guy who knows a guy and having endeavored to be "THE GUY" I don' really like the idea of depending on a "friend" of a "friend".

[Hobie]

Hobie,
Original .45-75 black powder cartridges used 1F to 2F powder depending on the manufacturer. I would suggest Schutzen 2F as I find that its fouling is softer than Goex, allowing more shots from a repeating rifle before accuracy starts to deteriorate. Swiss is the best, but it is a bit pricey.

I don't know how close you are to Winchester, VA but this fellow is super to deal with.
http://www.blackpowderva.com/

w30wcf

Thanks John, he's just 90 min up I-81 from me.

[Hobie]

Goex Cartridge. Not the fastest powder in the world, but has prooven quite accurate in a number of rifles here, and has a nice soft fouling. Plus you can get it in 25 lb bags from a properly setup Goex distributor.

Don,
You likely saw that I also posted on the Shiloh forum. How much powder a year do dedicated silhouette shooters use?

[Gobblerforge]

You're right, Hobie, it wasn't.
"Given possible future circumstances which might restrict availability of BP, what ONE BP should I buy now for use in both the .45-75 and flintlock musket?"
2F.
As for relying on others, especially a friend of a friend, I try not to. It keeps me from being disappointed. But then my point was when I'm in the hunt for something, everybody knows somebody. Back in prohibition, if you wanted alcohol, you could get it. Sometimes the solution was to do it yourself.
Gobbler

[Don McDowell]

Hobie yes I saw that posted there also.
How much a year? good golly that's hard to say. I'm not a dedicated sillouette shooter, but between Carol and I and our doofin around here at home and at the matches we attend, a full 25 lb case won't have much left in it come the end of the year, and that will likely include the few pounds we pickup at the various shoots thru door prize winnins.
That's sort of the thing that's neat about the Goex 25 lb bags, easier to store and no need to mess with all those empty cans.
Look over there on the Shiloh board for a thread about buying powder started by Johninva or some such. He got a bag from some distributor fairly close to your area.That same dealer has a fair reputation of having really good prices.

[Hobie]

You're right, Hobie, it wasn't.
"Given possible future circumstances which might restrict availability of BP, what ONE BP should I buy now for use in both the .45-75 and flintlock musket?"
2F.
As for relying on others, especially a friend of a friend, I try not to. It keeps me from being disappointed. But then my point was when I'm in the hunt for something, everybody knows somebody. Back in prohibition, if you wanted alcohol, you could get it. Sometimes the solution was to do it yourself.
Gobbler

Absolutely! Don't ask me how I know...

[Hobie]

Thanks Don!

[Don McDowell]

Hobie, here's one more way to figure it.
If you used the same 75 gr charge in both that 76 and the musket, you can expect 93 rounds per can.(7000/75 =93.3) so if you multiplied that by 25 cans per case you should get somewhere real close to (93x25) 2325 shots before all the powder supply has gone byebye.

[w30wcf]

Don,

I guess we can agree that different lots of powder can = different results. Also, I believe the humidity is higher here than out west.

In my original Winchester '73 .44-40 with its somewhat pitted barrel, Goex fouled out after 8 shots with number 9 and 10 slightly keyholing and landing several inches from the main group. By comparison, Swiss FFG went 20 rounds before groups started to open up and Schuetzen about 15. Bullet was Lyman's 427098. Lube was SPG.

In another test, while experimenting with different bullets in my .45 Colt Marlin Cowboy, I found that with a bullet holding <1 gr. of lube, Goex would foul out about 4" back from the muzzle after 10 shots with a hard ring of fouling. Swiss continued to produce even fouling for the full length of the barrel.

Hobie,
One more thing about Swiss is that it is about 10% denser than Goex....at least the lots I have are. For example, a volume of 70 grs. by weight of Swiss will = 63 grs. of Goex. In other words, you'll get closer to 75 grs. of Swiss in the .45-75 case with Swiss, if that's important. Shuetzen falls about 1/2 way in between.

w30wcf

[Don McDowell]

John just shooting straight Goex 3f (37 grs) in a 45 colt New Vaquero, with 2 different bullets , it takes 30-35 rounds to gum the thing up to where the cylinder starts to bind. 15 rounds thru my Win trapper and all still functions fine.
I can routinely fire 10 rounds of 45-70 loaded with Cartridge(68grs, Lymanpostell lubed with Sagebrush alox) without blowtubing or wiping, keep the same level of accuracy, and still push a dry patch thru the bore, on a 45 caliber jag.

[Griff]

Great topic, excellent info & discussion, John & Don. Now that I finally got some Swiss, I'm really looking forward to some tests in my .40-90BN Sharps.

Hobie, in answer to your question; IMO, #2 will do ya... but; and it's a big'n, performance will drop off in those .36 & .45 rifles and the .44 pistols. I have about the same range of BP needs (take away that .75 musket & add 12ga., I can & have used #2 in 'em all, but... those smaller calibers don't shine as well with the coarse stuff. fouling is inreased & performance falls off from the git-go & deteriorates faster.

[Hobie]

Hobie, here's one more way to figure it.
If you used the same 75 gr charge in both that 76 and the musket, you can expect 93 rounds per can.(7000/75 =93.3) so if you multiplied that by 25 cans per case you should get somewhere real close to (93x25) 2325 shots before all the powder supply has gone byebye.

Yep that's about right. I'm looking into a magazine now. I'm going to put it up at Mom's for the moment at least. I want it in place BEFORE I have powder on hand.

I don't use a lot in the musket because I don't shoot it as much as I want. However, I'd probably go through 2600 rounds of .45-75 (@ about 65 gr. per) fairly quickly once we get the free time back on track.

[Don McDowell]

It's sort of amazing at how fast a case of powder will disappear on you when you get to shooting alot.
If you get a regular powder locker those are pretty nice. Old refigerators make pretty good ones also, just need to disable the latch and put on a hasp.

[Rusty]

Hobie,
I've shot all the muzzleloaders you have listed with 3F and did fine. IMHO the 3F burns a little cleaner, but some claim a sharper pressure curve. I'm not sure how it would load in a cartridge though.