45-70 v. 45-60 v. 45-75

[505stevec]

I have several 45-70s but am looking to get an 1876. There is one here in 45-75 and one on GB in 45-60. Which is better and why? any and all info is greatly appreciated.

[Leverluver]

Loaded to black powder equavalent specs, the two cartridges are not that far apart. The 45-60 shoots a 300 grain at pretty much the same speed that the 45-75 shoots a 350. Depending on the headspace of the rifle you get (and it's kind of a stuff shoot) there may not be all that much difference in the work involved in making acceptable casings for either cartridge. For certain, the 45-60 will be less expensive because you are starting with cheaper brass (45-70) to begin with. But like I mentioned, if you have to change rim thickness, either case will tax your patience. I started with a 45-60 because that is what was coming into the country at the time. I am converting it to 45-75 just "because". If you go 45-75 you will need to start with 348 or 50 Alaskan or 50-90 Sharps (the closest to original rim and base specs), all of which are more (some a lot more) expensive than 45-70s turned into 45-60s. God luck and enjoy the journey.

[505stevec]

Wow, I am looking to get into reloading but this sounds intimidating. Just curious for now. How do you "change rim thickness"?

[Leverluver]

There are less perfectionist ways (involving files and drills and such) buy IMO, the only "right" way is to set up a jig in a lathe and trim the unwanted thickness from the front of the rim and first you have to determine what that thickness is. You have to remove from the front because you don't want to change the depth of the primer pocket. Of course, you can always buy expensive factory ammo and save the cases to reload but I'm too ornery to do that. A lot of folks have jumped into 76s with their eyes less than wide open and found that they were essentially dealing with a century old wildcat. Nothing that can't be surmounted but it can be tedious and patience testing. They are not like going to the store and buying 30-30 (or 45-70) ammo. I don't have the link but there is a 76 forum. Just Google "CAS Winchester 1876" and it will come right up. An hour there will answer a lot of your questions.

[KirkD]

I made some 45-60 brass out of 45-70 cases, but had to thin the rims. Then I got some nice headstamped brass from Rocky Mountain Cartridges to ease my workload. I used 45-70 dies for reloading the 45-60.

[Hobie]

These are not the cartridges for the first time reloader. Original or reproduction rifles, case forming and loading both require an understanding of the fit of cartridge to rifle that most first time reloaders simply don't have. Also, in these rifles, it requires a level of discipline in loading technique that most first time reloaders don't have. Even long time reloaders can get in trouble with these gun/cartridge combinations.

I have a .45-75 and while it has been interesting and fun for me, I had questions and I've been reloading for over 35 years.

[J Miller]

It would be interesting if we could hop in a time machine and go back to the 1870s and see how the owners of these big rifles reloaded their ammo then.
Of course they had correct casings to start with, but still, it's their methods that would be fun to watch.

Joe

[505stevec]

Thanks guys. I was going to trade a Springfield Trapdoor Carbine 45-70 repro. I think I had better stick with what I know for now. Though I would surely love to have a big 1876 someday.

[Grizzly Adams]

FWIW, I have one of the Uberti 1876s in 45-60. I shoot shortened 45-70 brass, and it works just fine as is. Just cut the 45-70 brass to 1.89 and load with 45-60 dies. The seems to be the experience of most folks, at least in terms of the Uberti rifle.

The 45-60 is much easier in terms of the overall reloading process than the 45-75.

[1886]

As Kirk D. stated cases are available from Rocky Mtn. Cartridge Co. The latest Lyman reloading manual has lots of data for the 76 repros. except the .50. As always, a chrono. is invaluable. If you want a 76 but find the reloading process a little daunting, Ten X offers loaded ammo. Prices are almost "reasonable" as factory "specialty" ammo goes. I can not comment on the thickness of the case rims. The Uberti 76 is well done. Mine is pretty and very well fit. Cut down .45-70 cases will not work. The rims are too thick. The Rocky Mtn. cases work perfectly. A 300gr bullet at about 1300-1350fps is about standard for the 1876 .45-60. 1886.

[morgan in nm]

I have 2 Uberti 76's both in 45-60. Of course, I have some experience in reloading and I have to say that they are more fun to shoot than most of the others I own. I think they are worth it. They are also quite accurate.

[rusty gunns]

The 45-60 shoots a 300gr lead bullet over 60 gr of black or equivalent.

The 76 has the same, so called, weak toggle action as the 66's and 73's.

I wonder how the new Uberti 45-60 actions would handle a 350gr bullet pushed by 60 gr black, compressed? (case room permitting)

You could hunt bigger things, aye?

Just a thought.

[veeman]

How soon till Starline makes proper .45-60 and .45-75 brass? Surely it must be coming?

[kimwcook]

I just read on a forum, could of even been this one, that the toggle link system isn't that weak. There was a link to an article about Browning (I think) purposely destroying a '76 and it took an unreal number of stacked bullets and powder to render it unuseable.

[rusty gunns]

I was being a bit sarcastic about the link action on these rifles.

I have read over the years, based on the toggle principal, there was an inherent weakness in these actions. The weakness meant that there was a threshold in load capabilities. And that Browning developed the 86 type action with the locking lugs to allow greater pressures etc.

Then again, I have read where these weapons were tested to failure and that barrels and frames failed before the actions.

I have also read that the throw of the toggles didn't allow the action to feed the 45-70, 45-90, 50-X size rounds and since Winchester wanted to compete in that market, they had to make a new gun to swallow all that brass. Browning's redesign was just a normal evolution in engineering from a gifted mind.

IMHO, modern metals proper load research and good sense make the Uberti guns more than capable. After all the German Luger has a toggle action that does just fine.

But it's always best to throw a question like this out to this forum. There are those among us that are far more knowledgeable than I.