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i noticed on another topic here someone mentioned the M1 carbine would penetrate a GI helmet (our ole "steel pot"?) at 100 yards and the .45 acp would not not.
the test for accepting a "steel pot" was to shoot a .45 acp at it from eight feet, if the "pot" dented two inches or less, it was acceptable.
is that correct? i've never tried it but it seems to me that a .45 acp would put a clean hole in the steel pot from eight feet and, i've seen some very nasty bullet holes in the "steel pots" but they were from larger caliber bullets.
i always liked mine to heat water in and wash out of (the steel pot)...at the time, i didn't think much about the protection they afforded and had it hanging on my canteen most of the time; which resulted in numerous *** chewin's from my plt sgt...
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
I don't know the distance the tests were performed at, but I do remember seeing a foto of the test weapon..IIRC it was a shortened 1903 Springfield chambered for the 45acp.
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
I don't know about .30 Carbine shooting through a helmet, but I've seen WWII training videos that show .45 ACP (fired from a 1911) denting a steel helmet at short range. Can't remember if the helmet was US or German.
The only penetration concerns that I've heard levied against the m1 were from Korea - thickly padded chicoms and extreme cold which reduced the velocity of the rounds.... they penetrated but lost a lot of energy doing so and didn't stop the chicoms very well - or something similar.
So, the lesson is, if you're going to need an extreme cold weather carbine, go with a little more cartridge...
Ben_Rumson wrote:Frozen clothing and the Box O Truth http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm
The test proves the Carbine round isn't so weak as to be defeated by thick clothing.
How about frozen clothing, frozen GI, fronzen rifle, frozen ammo?
I'm sure the powders used at the time preceeding the Korean war weren't all that great at -10 degrees...?
You'd think they'd still penetrate completely though - even 300 fps slow... 1500 or 1600 fps would do it I am sure...
Last edited by O.S.O.K. on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ben_Rumson wrote:Frozen clothing and the Box O Truth http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot36.htm
The test proves the Carbine round isn't so weak as to be defeated by thick clothing.
A frozen terry cloth towel?! Not quite the same as the quilted clothing these guys have on.
Cherokee wrote:True the temp in US wasn't like Korea but all the LC52 ammo I fired over the years penetrated fine.
I'm sure the temp effected each cartridge. Say it dropped the cartridge's velocity by 400 fps (which I don't is at all impossible at temps in the -30 to -10 degree range). A 150 gr. .30-06 going 2300 fps is still going to be a lot more effective than a 110 gr. 30 Carbine going 1500 fps, especially when it comes to pushing through quilted outerwear, whatever is on under it, and then in an enemy's body.
I guess some folks just don't want to believe something when they've already made up their minds on a subject, or else they just like a good debate! I'll take all the M1 carbines "unbelievers" want to get rid of. We rarely if ever have -10 to -30 degrees in my neck of the woods now, and with the "scourge of global warming" just around the corner I don't suppose we will in the forseeable future!
"If a man does away with his traditional way of living and throws away his good customs, he had better first make certain that he has something of value to replace them." - Basuto proverb.
What we really need here is a chicom wearing proper quilted outfit, hosed down, frozen for a few days (along with an m1 carbine and LC52 rounds) and then take em out and shoot him with the carbine while both are still frozen to see what happens
A frozen terry cloth towel?! Not quite the same as the quilted clothing these guys have on.
You must have missed the part where he said it was folded several layers so as to be about 1" thick frozen solid and sailed on thru that and 7 gallon jugs of water ...
"IT IS MY OPINION, AND I AM CORRECT SO DON'T ARGUE, THE 99 SAVAGE IS THE FINEST RIFLE EVER MADE IN AMERICA."
WIL TERRY
my dad was there in korea during the winter...he never said anything about the carbine not being able to stop the commies...he did tell me of all the dead chicoms in the river that would build up on the pontoon bridges they'd installed and wash the bridges out...the human wave attacks that met murderous rifle, mg and cannon fire when they waded into the river to try an assault.
he still has pictures of some of it...
if you think you're influencial, try telling someone else's dog what to do---will rogers
