OT- Sort of, Loading question on .303 Brit and 7.62 X 54R

[Old Time Hunter]

Gents, need some input. Cast a passle of 165 grain spire points with a wheel weight plus silver/tin that are now pricking at 'bout 14-15 BHN, sized 'em to .312, gas checked 'em, and tumbled 'em in Liquid Alox. Oh yea, almost forgot, dropped 'em in water to harden. Anyways, I need your advice as to what charge weight I should use, using H4895 or IMR 4895 (I also have some H4198 and a ton of Unique). I can not find any information on it. In the not so distant past, I tried a reduced load of 39 grains of H4895, but the majority of bullets desinegrated as they left the barrel. The ones that managed to register on the chrono only showed a velocity of 2250 fps. Someone alluded to using about 12-13 grains of Unique and that would slow them down to about 1500 fps...does this sound right? Again, can not find any data. About using 35-36 grains of H4895, theoretically that would lower the velocity down to less than 1800....any ideas?

Oh yea, the .303 Brit and the 7.62 X 54 are the cartridges I'm using.

I also have problems with my 165 grain .30-30 cast w/GC's that I cast from my Ranch Dog mould. Size them at .311 and load 29-30 grains of H4895 with a velocity of 1900 fps. They also have a BNH of 14-15.

[mescalero1]

Old Time Hunter,
My RCBS cast bullet manual says
187 gr. cast bullet
12.0 grains unique= 1378
14.0 grains unique= 1501

[2ndovc]

I had really good luck with 21 Gr. IMR 4198 ( don't know how different H&IMR are) and 200 gr GCs. in my 303s.

Also used 10 Gr Unique in 7.62x54R with a 113 Gr. bullet.

Was going to try the 10gr of Unique w/ the 200 gr. bullets and the .303

[Old Time Hunter]

Any trouble with the cartridge only being partially full when you use Unique?

[mescalero1]

Old Time Hunter,
I do not know, I just gave you what my book says, I have only just aquired a Enfield.
I would like to give that load a try, think it would be fun for New Mexico Blacktails.

[2ndovc]

Any trouble with the cartridge only being partially full when you use Unique?

Not at all. Accurate too.

Also use 11gr. of Unique in some 45-70 loads.

Sixgun gave me that one. Have to be VERY careful while loading these. A double charge would be very BAD!

jb

[Ben_Rumson]

Search here http://www.castbulletassoc.org/forum/ for your loads... tons of info.. hours of reading prolly if you're so inclined.. Ed Harris has many posts on these rifles...

[KCSO]

Don't expect great things from a 312 bullet in a 303. The smallest bores run about 312 and you need 2 thou or more over that for good shoting. I cast 314 and 317 for my 303's. With 12.5 of Red Dot I am gettng good 100 yard groups for target shooting and for hunting I run IMR 4895 and push them 1900-2000 fps.

[Andrew]

Lyman #311291 169gr.
Unique....11.0-14.0gr. ...1461-1680fps
2400 .......22.0-24.0gr. ...1865-1941fps

Yeah, most likely you're gonna want to use a .314. Mine slugged .3145 at it's narrowest portion, so I will have to get something like KCSO's .317 mold.

[Noah Zark]

Also used 10 Gr Unique in 7.62x54R with a 113 Gr. bullet.
Was going to try the 10gr of Unique w/ the 200 gr. bullets and the .303

Back in the day, 11 gr of Unique in a rifle cartridge under a cast bullet was known as the "Universal Load." You don't get tremendous velocity or a flat trajectory, but you usually get incredible accuracy.

Noah

[Old Time Hunter]

Grabbed a bunch of unsized bullets, then sized 'em to .314 (my bigggest that I currently have), GC'd 'em, Liquid Aloxed 'em and put them in front of 12.5 grains of Unique. As soon as it stops raining I will head to the range. My couple of hundred sized .312 will now be used in my .30-30....with 24 grains of H4895. Even though they are a spire point, they work well with one in the chamber and no more than one in the mag.

Guess I'll have to get a larger sizing die.

My Enfield slugs at .3115 at its narrowest, out of four Mosins, they go from .310 to .315. The Mosins have very small chambers and will not accomodate a bullet larger than .312 unless I turn the already thin cartridge neck down.

These bullets drop at .318 out of my Lee CTL312-160-2R mould, after sizing and adding the GC they weigh out at around 170.

[Andrew]

Let us know what you come up with at the range.

[Old Time Hunter]

Actually made it to the range today!

Ok, now for the report:

.303 British

The .314 in front of 12.5 grains of Unique in my 1941 No1 Mk3 Enfield worked spectacular. Fairly tight group...10 shots@100 yards. Total group was 4 1/2"! Ave velocity was 1488 fps with a high of 1530 and the lowest 1427fps. Being a total weight of 170 grains including gas check, this would not be used for hunting, but makes a very light plinking load. Could shoot this thing all day, even though the standard military sight is for 200 meters, it is dead on at 100 yards with this load.

7.62 X 54R

Sized .312, 36 grains of H4895, 91/30 1939 Mosin-Nagant. Expected better results, grouped three within an inch, two more within a six inch circle, three more within the next 8 inch circle and the last two about a foot away from POA and keyholed. The five within the six inch circle averaged a velocity of 2060 fps, high of 2110 and low of 1990. The three within the eight inch circle were 2140, 2185, and 2205. The two sprayed out a foot, were at 2250 and 2290fps. Chrono was set 15' from muzzle. My conclusion is that the velocities are still too high or the bore too big (This one was my second tightest bore, slugged at .311), or too rough (this one is probably the smoothest, but being Russian???). I do not understand the variation of velocity though, I weighed each one, none lower than 36.1 grains and none higher than 36.4 grains, can't believe that .4 grains could cause a 200 fps variance.

[O.S.O.K.]

I get excellent accuracy with cast bullets in my enfields, but I use a Lyman 200 grain gas check mould - wheel weights - sized to .314" and lubed with lee liq alox - using standard pressure load (don't remember which powder) but going 2000 fps. Just under the smokeless loads listed for 215 grain bullets.

Real easy on the brass (which I neck size after inital shooting).

The .314" should shoot well in most all but the really oversized SMLE bores.

Same bullets will shoot well in the Mosin Nagant 7.62x54 - same velocity.

[TomD]

http://www.303british.com/id1.html

Up here we get some levers chambered for the round, never handled one myself.

[Noah Zark]

7.62 X 54R

Sized .312, 36 grains of H4895, 91/30 1939 Mosin-Nagant. Expected better results, grouped three within an inch, two more within a six inch circle, three more within the next 8 inch circle and the last two about a foot away from POA and keyholed. The five within the six inch circle averaged a velocity of 2060 fps, high of 2110 and low of 1990. The three within the eight inch circle were 2140, 2185, and 2205. The two sprayed out a foot, were at 2250 and 2290fps. Chrono was set 15' from muzzle. My conclusion is that the velocities are still too high or the bore too big (This one was my second tightest bore, slugged at .311), or too rough (this one is probably the smoothest, but being Russian???). I do not understand the variation of velocity though, I weighed each one, none lower than 36.1 grains and none higher than 36.4 grains, can't believe that .4 grains could cause a 200 fps variance.

Possibly sized too small, but I'm thinking that load is pushing them too fast, IMO. Cut the charge some and retry. Check the bore for leading, too.

Noah

[the telegraphist]

Gents, need some input. Cast a passle of 165 grain spire points with a wheel weight plus silver/tin that are now pricking at 'bout 14-15 BHN, sized 'em to .312, gas checked 'em, and tumbled 'em in Liquid Alox. Oh yea, almost forgot, dropped 'em in water to harden. Anyways, I need your advice as to what charge weight I should use, using H4895 or IMR 4895 (I also have some H4198 and a ton of Unique). I can not find any information on it. In the not so distant past, I tried a reduced load of 39 grains of H4895, but the majority of bullets desinegrated as they left the barrel. The ones that managed to register on the chrono only showed a velocity of 2250 fps. Someone alluded to using about 12-13 grains of Unique and that would slow them down to about 1500 fps...does this sound right? Again, can not find any data. About using 35-36 grains of H4895, theoretically that would lower the velocity down to less than 1800....any ideas?

Oh yea, the .303 Brit and the 7.62 X 54 are the cartridges I'm using.

I also have problems with my 165 grain .30-30 cast w/GC's that I cast from my Ranch Dog mould. Size them at .311 and load 29-30 grains of H4895 with a velocity of 1900 fps. They also have a BNH of 14-15.

Gday mate,
Try sizing 30/30 to 308, 311/312 is 303 British standard bore diameter. Fat slug going downa skinny tube gonna raise pressures. Erratic velocity which means stuff accuracy, perhaps a dangerous outcome. Not to mention whats happening in the barrel as far as fouling and further restrictions after repeated shots. 7.62 is 308.
RGDS
The Telegraphist

[txpete]

kind of a mosin guy here russian/finn.I started shooting cast in them even when milsurp ammo was dirt cheap.
I think that you will find a sweet spot on these rifles runs 1500-1700 fps atleast in my rifles.
with the lee 160 gr /185 gr

13.0 grs red dot
16.0 grs 2400
my most accurate load so far 19.0 grs AA5744.laupa brass win lr primer.sized .311 in my M28 finn will cut a ragged hole ditto with the M-39s.haven't chronied it yet but a zippy load.next up is the ranch dog 165 wfn bullet.these drop .314 from the mold. .

[Old Time Hunter]

Thanks guys, very little leading in either...so far. The Mosin is very dirty though. The Enfield actually loved the 12.5 grains of Unique.

Just tried the .312 sized bullets out of my Lee CLT312-160-2R mould (dropped at .314) in my Enfield with both 35 grains of H4895 and 13.5 grains of Unique. The H4895 is still eratic, velocity anywhere from 1850 to 2075 fps (chrono@15'). Out of ten rounds @100 yards, 9 were with an 8" pie plate, the other was off the paper. The other ten were loaded with 14 grains of Unique...holy moly did the velocity pick up! Low was 1663 fps, high was 1800 fps! Accuracy suffered though, better than the H4895 with a 6" group@100 yards, just not tight like the 12.5 grains of Unique were. Seems that the cast WW w/5% silver and a BNH of 14-15 can only handle about 1800 fps, even with the GC's. My buddy says that the BNH correlates directly with velocity with a roughly 30 caliber bore. I am starting to believe him. He casts his with WW, but adds a ton of tin and silver to a BNH of 19-20, plus the gas checks, he can get 2k+ out of his .308.

Really like the Unique...just so, so dirty!

Next to retry the Mosins.

[2ndovc]

Sure is fun isn't it?

jb