45-70 Guide Gun

[Tennessee Hayre]

Well I have done it again I went to the range last weekend and blew up another scope. It lasted for a total of 8rounds of (325 grain Hornady Flex Tips). I was using a 3x9 Bushnell on the 1895G 45-70 with med size quick release rings.The first 3 shots were 3" high and to the right. made one adjustment and hit the mark with the next 3,and the last 2 shots were hitting 12" onto another piece of paper tried to make an adjustment and the windage knob would not respond. I took it off and threw it into my range bag and fired at the 100yard target using the XSights ghost ring system and nailed some clay skeet target one right after another (awsome) It was at that moment I decided I was never going to put another scope on this rifle. Think I will just keep shooting it with the peep sights Like I have been with the old 30-30. (Question) I just wondered how many folks on this site use open sights on their lever guns and how many use scopes.

[rjohns94]

I have a scope only on my Wild West Guns 1895, scout configured with a leopold long eye relief and quick off rings in .457 mag. The other levers all have a rear peep on them and I have not tried to scope them. That would include my marlin 39 TDS in .22lr of course, my winchester 94 in 30-30, my 1886 in 45-70, my sharps in 45-70. Good luck with your choice of going with out.

[TedH]

My levergun scope/iron sight ratio is about 50/50. Most of my Marlins tend to wear scopes. Winchesters and Rossi's wear peeps.

[Pete44ru]

My $0.02, a poor choice in scope brand and physical size/weight, along with rings that are too high, will direct too much energy where it shouldn't go - ergo, a damaged scope.

Get a better made, brand scope, like a Leupold, Burris, or other proven high-quality name.

Get a smaller scope, too - like a 1-3X20 or 1-4X20 if you must have a variable. A .45-70 brush gun is no place for a 3-9Xwhatever varmint scope.

Get low rings, which will allow the smaller scope to clear everything just fine - additionally giving you a much better cheekweld with less recoil leverage on the scope due to the lower fulcrum.

[Grizz]

I don't have any scopes on leverguns. Can't hit much any more due to eyesight alterations, but the thrill of the shot is the same.

I walked some lead into the 116 yard gong last time out. Good spotter is helpful.

I have a scope for the .338, but haven't shot that thing in years.

[Tennessee Hayre]

Thanks guys. I had used the 3 x 9 scope once before on this rifle and the recoil caused the rear scope-ring to rip loose, so I purchased the quick release set from Leupold and fixed that problem. I think I will practice through out the coming months before deer season and build my confidence up using the ghost sights and see how well I do. I fired 60 rounds through the gun last weekend using 325 grain and recoil was no problem. I really like the guide gun. It will be one of those rifles that will never be sold.

[AndyM]

I often use a Leupold fixed 2.5X in low weaver rings on my guide gun, after many, many rounds, there has not been an issue. These are stiff reloaded rounds also.

[jengel]

I too have an 1895 GS with leverscout mount, Leupold QRW rings and Leupold Scout Scope. I have not had a problem with this system. I personally think that the heavier recoiling gun that you have, the lighter and higher quality scope you should put on it. There are a lot of G forces acting on the scope and the lighter the better. Also, just my $0.02.

[maddog]

I have a 1-4x leupold shotgun scope, with warne rings and a weaver base. The same setup since I bought it 6 yrs. ago. Been hundreds of rounds thru it. Matter of fact, thats the set up I used over in Africa, earlier this month. Never had a bit of trouble with scope or rings.

maddog

[fgarnold]

I too have a Leupold scout scope on my 1895G without a problem for some years now. This scope has held up using Garretts 540 gr hammerheads and everything in lighter loads. I had a Bushnell on a .270 years ago and it only lasted two years.

[Tennessee Hayre]

I saw a scope on the Cabela web site designed for the Marlin ....45-70 using the 325 grain flex tip ammo has anyone used that scope and if so is it worth buying. It looks kinda long in length.

[Pete44ru]

Don't get yerself all hypnotized by smoke/morrors and self-promoting advertizing.

A fellow levergunner has F/S on our Classifieds, one of the very best scopes suitable for your rifle, and @ $70, you can't go wrong.

http://www.levergunscommunity.com/viewt ... f=2&t=8668

[86er]

I now have about 2000 rounds of full-boat 45-70, 400 grain bullets at 2000 fps+ fired out of my 1886. The scope, a Leatherwood Optics Hi-Lux 2-7X-32mm and the rings, Leupold QD's have held point of impact throughout AND I routinely remove and re-install the scope when I switch to peep sights for close range work. I think quality mounts and bases will solve the problem and a good scope will compliment it.

[Old Ironsights]

Glass is never an area where skimping on price is a good idea.

Avoid the marketing hype, but buy more than you can afford (withihn reason).

[Griff]

I only have one levergun scoped, that's a Marlin 375 with an old Weaver K4-1 atop it. Only one has a peep sight (tang), the balance all have factory irons. Never felt the need to have glass on any except that one.

[AJMD429]

I generally scope any new gun I get TEMPORARILY with an old 36x BSA I have (haven't killed it yet, even with my 7mm Mag), just to see how accurate it can ultimately be.

Then, if the accuracy potential is really great, and the chambering/gun appropriate, I will scope it permanently, REGARDLESS of "tradition," if the gun is to be a shooter.

If the accuracy is marginal off the bench with the 36x, or the gun is a 'brush' gun plain and simple, I'll go with something as close to mil-spec peeps as I can (durable, adjustable with repeatability), or maybe use a red-dot or laser rarely. (I like the red-dot for kid's guns or trainer's).

Case in point, I have a Marlin 1894 I usually keep a 4-16x on because it will deposit 240gr SP's in 1-1/2" at 100 yards, and another wearing a 4x because it can't, and yet another stainless with peeps not because it isn't accurate, but it is my foul weather gun. On the other hand, I had a .270 I refused to scope because it shot so poorly.

[gregg]

My $0.02, .

Get a smaller scope, too - like a 1-3X20 or 1-4X20 if you must have a variable. A .45-70 brush gun is no place for a 3-9Xwhatever varmint scope.

OhBOY! Hope Paco don't see this.

[RIHMFIRE]

9 levers...2 with scopes....9422 and marlin 3030

[Paratrooper Dave]

7/23/08

Tennessee Hayre, you have brought up a good point.

I have been shooting my two 39's (an "A" and an "AS") just using the factory sights. And believe me they do just fine. Right now I am in the process of up-grading both (if that is the correct term)with Skinner peep sights.

My 1894S and 444SS are next to get the Skinner treatment.

My only question for the Skinners is the aperture size. For testing I have an aperture at 0.125", another at 0.096" and a third one at 0.040". I'll have to see which one works the best and then make them all identical.

Last summer I purchased a 336CS (a .30-30 made in 1986) that came with a Tasco AO-61 8 scope. The rifle shoots right on and way out with the old Tasco. But I am considering retiring the Tasco and putting a Skinner on the it as well. I really think a lever look so much better without a scope.

All four of these Marlins are very accurate and I spite of my age (nearly 68) and eye sight deminishment I know I will be very satisfied with the Skinner peeps or the factory originals.

I will leave the scopes on my Marlin bolts; a MR-7 (.30-06) and a Marlin 25.

By the way, I see you are from Clarksville and are retired military. I was just at Fort Campbell a little more than a month ago. For over the past 12 years my unit (D-1/501, 2BDE, 101st) has joined others from the 2nd Brigade at a '67-'68 Vietnam veterans bi-annual reunion. It always is a worthwhile gathering. Are you a former 101st Paratrooper?

Take care,

Paratrooper Dave

[fgarnold]

My $0.02, .

Get a smaller scope, too - like a 1-3X20 or 1-4X20 if you must have a variable. A .45-70 brush gun is no place for a 3-9Xwhatever varmint scope.

OhBOY! Hope Paco don't see this.

I have to agree even if Paco doesn't agree, a varmit scope has no business on a 45-70. I use the 2.5 scout and it is more than sufficiant.

[Meeteetse]

Seven lever guns and none of them carry a scope. Just doesn't seem right to me, but my eyes are telling me something different. So far I have chosen to move my maximum range closer rather than extending it with a scope.

I may consider a red dot or reflex sight, but I'm holding out on the scopes for a while. It is hell getting older, but so far the traditionalist is winning.

[fgarnold]

Yep Meeteetse I have the same problem. Lots of levers but now that i'm 62 I need a little help with the old eyesight. I guess the small compact scopes are the leeser evil of a large scope on a lever.

[Tennessee Hayre]

Thanks levergunners for all of the input on this subject. When i took that broken scope off the guide gun and started picking off those clay sheet disk at 100 yards with just the peep sights, I could not wipe the smile off my face. I could not believe how accurate that little gun was. My wife was spotting and i heard the words "Why do you need another scope" you shoot just fine with out one. I think she had just found a reason for me not to spend any more money!!! ha. But serious the truth is I think i like it both ways. And (Parachute Dave) I joined the army in 1976. My dad had to sign me in cause i was just 17.Just missed the VET WAR. I spent 8 years of my 20 at Ft Campbell in the 326th Combat Engr Bn. I did jump but only as a skydiver. I jumped with the screaming eagle's parachute team for a while until i was reassigned to germany in the 80's. I have alot of respect for the paratroopers and the history they made for our great country.

[gregg]

My $0.02, .

Get a smaller scope, too - like a 1-3X20 or 1-4X20 if you must have a variable. A .45-70 brush gun is no place for a 3-9Xwhatever varmint scope.

OhBOY! Hope Paco don't see this.

I have to agree even if Paco doesn't agree, a varmit scope has no business on a 45-70. I use the 2.5 scout and it is more than sufficiant.

I guess you have to read the writings of Paco to get the pun of brush gun. sorry.
I have to say I never tried a 2.5 Scout scope at 200 yds. I think I'm fair to say the Guide gun is a 200 yd gun with todays loads?
Then again when did we start thinking of a 3x9 as a varmit scope?
OBTW I have a Willians guild peep on my guild gun and like the 1-3or4 x20 scopes myself Just don't use one as of yet.
Lyman tang sight on my 1895 45-70 cowboy. Tang sights can be a danger to the eye with heavy loads. Wear your shooting glass's.

[Tennessee Hayre]

Funny, I always thought a 3x9 scope was for a close range deer scope. So if it is a varmit scope then what is a scope with less power.

[Pathfinder09]

I have a Leupold VX-II 2x7x33 on my GG. I have fired about 400 rounds through it, some real stout loads too. Never had a problem.

[fgarnold]

I have to agree even if Paco doesn't agree, a varmit scope has no business on a 45-70. I use the 2.5 scout and it is more than sufficiant.[/quote]
I guess you have to read the writings of Paco to get the pun of brush gun. sorry.
I have to say I never tried a 2.5 Scout scope at 200 yds. I think I'm fair to say the Guide gun is a 200 yd gun with todays loads?
Then again when did we start thinking of a 3x9 as a varmit scope?
OBTW I have a Willians guild peep on my guild gun and like the 1-3or4 x20 scopes myself Just don't use one as of yet.
Lyman tang sight on my 1895 45-70 cowboy. Tang sights can be a danger to the eye with heavy loads. Wear your shooting glass's.[/quote]


You are correct, I mis-spoke. 3x9 scopes are not varmit scopes. What I should have said is 40mm and larger scopes just don't look right on a levergun, but thats just my opinoin. As far as the 2.5 scout scope goes, I have taken bear at close to 200 yds. with it and find it most adequate for that distance although anything longer than that is definatly out.

[gregg]

You are correct, I mis-spoke. 3x9 scopes are not varmit scopes. What I should have said is 40mm and larger scopes just don't look right on a levergun, but thats just my opinoin. As far as the 2.5 scout scope goes, I have taken bear at close to 200 yds. with it and find it most adequate for that distance although anything longer than that is definatly out.[/quote]

I just looked at my post. I spoke of Varmit scope as jokeingly. I don't think it came off that way. Sorry.
Yes I agree. Any scope don't look right. Makes the gun unbalance. BUT as we get older we have to come to it I fear. Glad to hear your report on the Scout scope. Gives us all somthing to think about. The scout or the 20mm look as good as its going to get. I have put big scopes on my levers playing with loads. No it don't look just right.

[fgarnold]

Gregg,
No apology needed. I agree scopes of any kind don't seem to go well on any levergun. I have a number of levers but only 2 have scopes on them and they are the ones I use to hunt with. At 62, I need a little help with the old eyes, but I have taken a number of black bears, whitetail deer and a grizzly with this scout system and I truly like it. This gun has QR rings along with XS ghost ring for real close shots. I set this rifle up initially to use for grizzly, so I set it up as per my guide.