Hornady XTP vs. Speer Deep Curl

[Bill in Oregon]

I have been tempted to play with some of the Deep Curls from Speer in a hunting sixgun on the rare occasions when they make them available. Has anyone here shot them side-by-side? Is one a better choice than the other? We seem to have more field reports of the XTP -- including Jim's use of one in a .41 Magnum on elk. Just kinda wondering on a chilly December morning.

[44shooter]

The 270 grain 44 feeds very smoothly through my Marlin and showed good accuracy. I don’t have any kills with it to report though. I would think it would at least be in the same league as the 300 grain XTP, maybe better I don’t know.

[4t5]

Not me but this guys has .. https://youtu.be/YyVVEVb6oQk?si=1jSEYTeQo2Fd-lOw

[t.r.]

I typically load either the 300 grain XTP or 270 grain Speer bullet with a Harvester sabot cup for my CVA Optima muzzle-loader. Lethal results with either bullet fired into the chest organs of whitetail deer. No bullets have ever been recovered; they blast their way through and out the other side. Wound channels appear identical to me. Hoping this is helpful. TR

[GunnyMack]

Bill, the old Remington 240 semi jacket HP were amazing on deer but they made a real mess from my muzzle loader . I'd really like a soft point for most applications but hps are what they are making. Use either and should be fine on deer type critters.

[mickbr]

Theres no over all rule for XTP when it comes to expansion or toughness, it varies by bullet. Hornadies expansion velocity chart bears no relation to reality either. The 44 cal 200 XTP for example is quite a bit softer than the 240. It will start to open up just under 1000fps so can actually be used for subsonic hunting. Im not sure how low the 240 grain XTP expands but I have been meaning to test it. In the 357, the 125 xtp and 140xtp will not expand subsonically, yet the 158XTP will actually get nose peeling back to 50cal as low as 1020fps or so.

I havent used deep curls but in 44 they are tougher bullet than the 240gn XTP according to reports. My preference in carbines is the 240gn XTP's though as they are still good and have a better lower expansion envelope. They open up to at least 60cal at 1200fps impact. The deep curls need another 100fps. Shots on hogs past 100 where the velocity is dropping the xtp still drops them fast. I need things falling over quick so I can get onto the next one or before they end up on neighboring land. Its why I dont use hardcasts for hogs. Have never seen a hog survive a 240gn XTP.

The below 270 grain loaded in the hammerdown ammo I 'believe' is a speer deep curl ( not my photos btw)

[Ray]

XTP's are easily converted from hollow to soft nose by just holding (needle-noses) up to the lead pot spout very firmly for just long enough for the molten lead to melt the core and top-off the hollow cavitly. With practice......you'll ruin a few.....you can get proficient at it without spilling but just a little lead here and there.

The exposed lead hollow points (sierra speer etc.) can be melted down into the core with a propane torch and the puddle of molten lead beaded at the top of the jacket struck level with a razor blade. Of course, a level, fire proof surface is needed.

[44shooter]

From those pics and velocities, one could assume the 270 grain Speer will likely not expand from a handgun, at least not in the medium they tested these in. That bullet seems pretty tough and some use it in 444 Marlin. The 240 xtp is obviously much softer

[mickbr]

44shooter my thoughts as well.

[Slickrem]

Bill, the old Remington 240 semi jacket HP were amazing on deer but they made a real mess from my muzzle loader . I'd really like a soft point for most applications but hps are what they are making. Use either and should be fine on deer type critters.

How would you know if you can’t hunt with a pistol in NJ ?

[Slickrem]

I have been tempted to play with some of the Deep Curls from Speer in a hunting sixgun on the rare occasions when they make them available. Has anyone here shot them side-by-side? Is one a better choice than the other? We seem to have more field reports of the XTP -- including Jim's use of one in a .41 Magnum on elk. Just kinda wondering on a chilly December morning.

The big controversy about a non bonded bullet is core jacket separation. Even though it does the job and separations occur that’s not good enough thus the bonded bullet was born.

[GunnyMack]

Bill, the old Remington 240 semi jacket HP were amazing on deer but they made a real mess from my muzzle loader . I'd really like a soft point for most applications but hps are what they are making. Use either and should be fine on deer type critters.

How would you know if you can’t hunt with a pistol in NJ ?

MUZZLE LOADER

[Slickrem]

Bill, the old Remington 240 semi jacket HP were amazing on deer but they made a real mess from my muzzle loader . I'd really like a soft point for most applications but hps are what they are making. Use either and should be fine on deer type critters.

How would you know if you can’t hunt with a pistol in NJ ?

MUZZLE LOADER

Oops sorry missed you said muzzle loader. OP didn’t mention what type of gun. I only seen conversation about XTP and deep curl in regards to pistols.

[mickbr]

Bill, the old Remington 240 semi jacket HP were amazing on deer but they made a real mess from my muzzle loader . I'd really like a soft point for most applications but hps are what they are making. Use either and should be fine on deer type critters.

How would you know if you can’t hunt with a pistol in NJ ?

MUZZLE LOADER

Oops sorry missed you said muzzle loader. OP didn’t mention what type of gun. I only seen conversation about XTP and deep curl in regards to pistols.

Actually he did, he said in sixgun. Friend you need to slow down and read the whole posts.

[Slickrem]

How would you know if you can’t hunt with a pistol in NJ ?

MUZZLE LOADER

Oops sorry missed you said muzzle loader. OP didn’t mention what type of gun. I only seen conversation about XTP and deep curl in regards to pistols.

Actually he did, he said in sixgun. Friend you need to slow down and read the whole posts.

Sorry didn’t have my 6th cup of coffee yet!

[GunnyMack]

Sure bullets from a muzzleloader start faster but at 100 yds they are probably down to about muzzle velocity of a 6" revolver.
We tested LOTS of bullets, sabots, charge weights over the years. A couple of my buddies found .458 bullets shot bug holes from a .452 sabot, much better grab by the rifling.

[elmo123]

I have been working with both bullets in three of my 41 magnum revolvers, Blackhawk 6 1/2", S&W 57's 4" and 8 3/8". The XTP's are faster and more accurate in all three using the same powder charges of H110, Lil Gun and BE86.
I worked up a load for the upcoming doe season next month with Lil Gun hopefully I'll get a chance to see how it works.

[Bill in Oregon]

Looking forward to your results, Elmo. The nod seems to be toward the XTPs.

[Ray]

The field reports are many for the xtp due to the popularity of .44 & .45 in sabots for .50 & .54. With 80 to 150 gr. equivalent of b.p. substitute powder or pellets, the muzzle velocities in these instances are comparable to our leveractions.

B U T....Is there a discernible difference between the two comparisons what with one being engraved with rifling and the other jacket essentially undisturbed at firing ? I have often pondered this but my lack of hunting skills/opportunities have not allowed for personal experiences.

Is the rifling engraved xtp more frangible as suspected or is it less frangible due to forced mechanical jacket to core "bonding" ?

When the hornady folk engineered the xtp I wonder if they even thought of the muzzleloading use of them......

One thing to consider is the 240 gr. .45 is said to be much stronger constructed than the 250 gr. .45 or the 240 gr. .44. Many of the m.l. sabot users who are not already cartridge handloaders buy the factory offered xtp sabot combinations. I imagine there could be definite performance discrepancies if you inadvertently exchanged the use of one for the other.

[Slickrem]

The field reports are many for the xtp due to the popularity of .44 & .45 in sabots for .50 & .54. With 80 to 150 gr. equivalent of b.p. substitute powder or pellets, the muzzle velocities in these instances are comparable to our leveractions.

B U T....Is there a discernible difference between the two comparisons what with one being engraved with rifling and the other jacket essentially undisturbed at firing ? I have often pondered this but my lack of hunting skills/opportunities have not allowed for personal experiences.

Is the rifling engraved xtp more frangible as suspected or is it less frangible due to forced mechanical jacket to core "bonding" ?

When the hornady folk engineered the xtp I wonder if they even thought of the muzzleloading use of them......

One thing to consider is the 240 gr. .45 is said to be much stronger constructed than the 250 gr. .45 or the 240 gr. .44. Many of the m.l. sabot users who are not already cartridge handloaders buy the factory offered xtp sabot combinations. I imagine there could be definite performance discrepancies if you inadvertently exchanged the use of one for the other.

Bullets are not designed based on what gun they’re shot out of, internal, external and terminal ballistics are the same, and they will penetrate and expand based on velocity and velocity is velocity no matter what gun you shoot it from. Black powder delivers less but l’m sure it’s within range AND what your shooting range is, what’s that limit ??. Twist rate has very little to do with velocity (unless the bullet is too short) as long as the velocity is where it should be for penetration and expansion to deliver the right amount of energy. The two bullets listed, stronger construction? Is better than the other? Today’s bullets can be used for a variety of applications. If you look in a typical load manual you can see for yourself.

[mickbr]

The field reports are many for the xtp due to the popularity of .44 & .45 in sabots for .50 & .54. With 80 to 150 gr. equivalent of b.p. substitute powder or pellets, the muzzle velocities in these instances are comparable to our leveractions.

B U T....Is there a discernible difference between the two comparisons what with one being engraved with rifling and the other jacket essentially undisturbed at firing ? I have often pondered this but my lack of hunting skills/opportunities have not allowed for personal experiences.

Is the rifling engraved xtp more frangible as suspected or is it less frangible due to forced mechanical jacket to core "bonding" ?

When the hornady folk engineered the xtp I wonder if they even thought of the muzzleloading use of them......

One thing to consider is the 240 gr. .45 is said to be much stronger constructed than the 250 gr. .45 or the 240 gr. .44. Many of the m.l. sabot users who are not already cartridge handloaders buy the factory offered xtp sabot combinations. I imagine there could be definite performance discrepancies if you inadvertently exchanged the use of one for the other.

Ray, interesting questions regards rifling effect on jackets. All I have read suggests its too minimal to make a difference which is what I always took to be true. If I had a muzzleloader Id test it alongside one of my Rossis into water jugs just for interests sake.

[EdinCT]

I have used XTP's in the muzzleloader and had Many DRT kills, then one day a friend shot a doe and hit her in the shoulder and the XTP went in and came out the same side which only caught one lung and she gave us a long trail. I switched to Speer deep curl 240 soft points and never looked back. I have also shot a lot of deer with my 44 Cowboy limited II with the Speer 240 gr. deep curl soft points.
I no longer see them available in 240 but another friend just sold me 250 Nosler 240 gr soft points that I have yet to try, but I'm hopeful.
I have never shot a deer with a handgun because CT wants 5.00 dollars to amend my Lic. for handgun use and it offends me to have to pay for that when I already have to pay for my carry permit!

[JimT]

I've been using the 210 gr. XTP's in my .41 Magnum for a long time ... probably more than 20 years. I have shot deer and Javelina and hogs and 1 elk with them. Never had an issue. Never lost one.

The cow elk was hit at about 90 yards. I recovered this bullet in the hide on the off side. It only lost a few grains weight.
Powder charge I use is 20.0 gr. of WC820. Velocity around 1450 fps.

210 gr. XTP.JPG

[GunnyMack]

Jim , your XTP on the cow elk answers any and all doubts about how well it will work.
When I first got my Henry 41 mag and testing loads I was getting 1800+ fps. I gave thought about the velocity range the pistol bullets were designed for. I called Hornady, Speer and Nosler. Both Hornady and Speer said NO they wouldn't survive that velocity on game. Then I got to thinking, pistol bullets slow relatively fast so any of these pistol bullets will work fine on deer. Only time I'd be real concerned would be at spitting distance and if the deer is that close I'd head shoot it.
Pick a bullet, load, sight it in and go hunt!
Oh and Nosler was the only maker that said yes their bullet was good for higher velocity. The tech I spoke with asked me how I was getting that velocity from 41mag. I told him a Henry Big Boy and Lil gun. He then said he was going to order one!