The Marlin Ballard "kit"!

[marlinman93]

So about a month ago I spotted a Ballard set trigger breech block and lever on Ebay with a cheap buy it now price. Always nice to have spares that are good in case, so I bought it. Then I did a search of the seller's "other items", and saw he had a complete stock set of forearm, buttstock, small Farrow Swiss buttplate, and through bolt at a crazy cheap price too! I bought those also, then began wondering if the seller had a cracked action, or some issue where he was parting out a complete Union Hill #8 Ballard? So I sent him a message asking if he might be listing any other parts soon, and he told me he'd be listing a "barrel and connecting parts" the week of Thanksgiving.
I've been watching 2-3 times a day since before Thanksgiving, but nothing. Then yesterday I went on Ebay and had a message from the seller with just a long number? I asked what the number was and he told me to enter it on Ebay. I did, but nothing came up? I tried for an hour, and gave up. Then a friend told me to do a Google search for "Ebay and that number" and bingo a link came up and took me to the barreled action! So this is what I ended up with (all matching numbers!):





A complete Union Hill #8 scheutzen rifle! Some assembly required, along with some repair and maybe restoration too. The breech block didn't work properly due to the set trigger screw being turned in too far and snapped off. A quick disassembly of the trigger group allowed me to remove the screw from the backside, and install a new screw to make it work. Then some cleaning and oiling for likely was the first time in probably 140 years!
The forearm has a splinter missing on the top right side that needs to be fixed if I use this forearm. The barrel description says it's got strong rifling, but pitting, so may or may not be usable. I have a brand new blued .32-40 Ballard barrel, and also a nice Schoyen 4.5 weight .40-50SS barrel, so one of those two might get used on this project.
Might not see this until Christmas or later with deliveries so slow this month! Once the barreled action gets here I'll decide on a plan. But so far the various parts were cheaper than a whole Union Hill has been for probably 50 years or more!

[.45colt]

All of Your posts about these guns have sure been fun to see this year! We don't have to Own something to appreciate the History. Thank You.

[marlinman93]

All of Your posts about these guns have sure been fun to see this year! We don't have to Own something to appreciate the History. Thank You.

You're surely welcome! Good to know I'm not boring guys to death.

[yooper2]

You sure turn up a lot of neat stuff! Bizarre that he would be selling it separately in pieces.

Eric

[Griff]

All of Your posts about these guns have sure been fun to see this year! We don't have to Own something to appreciate the History. Thank You.

You're surely welcome! Good to know I'm not boring guys to death.

Definitely not bored... envious, yes... bored, no! But, don't let anyone's envy stop the information... I love learning about this stuff.

[GunnyMack]

Talk about stepping in something lucky! Your ability to find these old guns is truly amazing. I never find deals like you do Val.
Can't wait for you to get this one and bring it back to life.

[marlinman93]

Original tracking showed it arriving in Jan. 2nd, but this morning's updated says next Thursday. I always get excited waiting for stuff to arrive so I can see what I really have!

[marlinman93]

Talk about stepping in something lucky! Your ability to find these old guns is truly amazing. I never find deals like you do Val.
Can't wait for you to get this one and bring it back to life.

Thanks Gunny!
After many decades of buying and selling some of my luck is making lots of connections, and having things pointed my way. This one started with a friend calling me to ask about the breech block and lever, and wanted to know what the odds were of finding an action, stocks, etc. to use it with? Then he wanted to know if the DST breech block was something he could resell for a profit?
I answered all his questions and he then told me he better pass on the block and lever and said I should buy it. I did, and then called him to tell him about the stock set by the same seller. And of course called him again to let him know about the barreled action. He's a High Wall guy, so I sold him the 1885 takedown cheap as my way of thanking him.

[GunnyMack]

If we weren't a country apart I'd be hanging out in your gun room!
Im happy you are keeping those Ballards alive and glad you share them with us here.

[marlinman93]

If we weren't a country apart I'd be hanging out in your gun room!
Im happy you are keeping those Ballards alive and glad you share them with us here.

Thanks Gunny!
There's almost nobody around my area that shares my interest in these old single shot rifles.

[Pat C]

I enjoy seeing old projects, dont know anything about the Ballard rifles but I can really appreciate them. I too get excited about projects . I posted about one of mine recently trying to get the motivation to make a few decisions on its future .

[marlinman93]

The final pieces arrived this afternoon. The action looked pretty ugly with orange surface rust on one side, but as bad as that looked it came off by scraping it with a razor blade after coating it with Kroil. The bore is horrible, and not worth spending time to try and clean it up. Bad outside, and rougher than a dirt road inside. Good candidate for a liner, or bored to a larger caliber. Lever, link, and screws need replacing to tighten up the sagging lever, but I have lots of screws and parts to fix that. Still not a horrible Ballard, and great candidate for a restoration with my spare Schoyen barrel.

[Griff]

Very good Vall.

[marlinman93]

Very good Vall.

Thanks Griff!

[Pat C]

Ive often found even if bore was pitted if rifling was throughout it generally would spin bullet just fine. But often required several hours of cleaning, J.B. Bore paste lapping , and even lead or fire lapping at end. Then the bore needs to be seasoned with lead to fill pits back.

The key is getting all that free standing rust out to expose clean steel. Then get it seasoned again.
Seen many smoke poles people fired at deer then reloaded and left all season . Bores were sewer pipes. But with above done they shot as good as before.

Now if rifling is gone in places thats anouther story.

[marlinman93]

Ive often found even if bore was pitted if rifling was throughout it generally would spin bullet just fine. But often required several hours of cleaning, J.B. Bore paste lapping , and even lead or fire lapping at end. Then the bore needs to be seasoned with lead to fill pits back.

The key is getting all that free standing rust out to expose clean steel. Then get it seasoned again.
Seen many smoke poles people fired at deer then reloaded and left all season . Bores were sewer pipes. But with above done they shot as good as before.

Now if rifling is gone in places thats anouther story.

There isn't any rust in the bore, so nothing to work on there. The rifling is "intermittent" at best. I can see it end to end, but some areas are very low so I doubt it will ever shoot well. I've cleaned up some bores I thought needed to be relined and got them shooting great, but this one wont.
Since I have 3 great barrels, I really want to finally use the heavy Schoyen .40-50SS barrel, or it will continue to sit in my safe and maybe never get used in my life. Busy weekend with our OAC collector gun show tomorrow, and getting things together today, so I wont attempt to remove the barrel until next week.

[GunnyMack]

Val, I think your idea of putting that 40-50ss barrel is the way to go.
I have to look that one up!

[marlinman93]

Val, I think your idea of putting that 40-50ss barrel is the way to go.
I have to look that one up!

I make .40-50SS cases by blowing out .30-40 Krag or .303 British cases to .40 caliber, then trim them to 1o 1.88" long. Very simple, and very cheap to make. It was a short range cartridge in BP days, but loaded with 4198 and a 350 grain bullet it's a great midrange cartridge.

[GunnyMack]

I started looking online for the 40-50ss, just to have an idea of the cartridge, saw a place that had loaded ammo available, I think it was $128/50.
I also saw it can be made from 303 brass. Easy enough.

[marlinman93]

I started looking online for the 40-50ss, just to have an idea of the cartridge, saw a place that had loaded ammo available, I think it was $128/50.
I also saw it can be made from 303 brass. Easy enough.

Yes, it's one of the easiest obsolete cartridges I have to make ammo for

Did a few things on this Union Hill today. Started by replacing a few worn screws in the lever and link, and a couple buttplate screws since those with the gun were too long, and too large diameter. Then figured I'd take a shot at taking the old barrel off, and knew after 140 years or so they often don't cooperate! But this one fought me more than any I've ever removed, and it's still not off the action!
I started by clamping it in my barrel vise with oak blocks and put the action wrench on to break it loose, but no go. So I added a little heat and a little Kroil to the junction between barrel and action, but still no go. I cranked the vise down extra hard, and added more Kroil, and more heat and it felt like it broke free. But it was just y oak block breaking and a piece came out the side of my vise!
I switched to a pair of ironwood blocks I built years ago for stubborn barrels and after yet more heat and more pulling, it still wont budge!
At this point I left it in the vise, and hung some weight on the action wrench to see if constant weight hanging on it overnight coaxes it at all. If this doesn't come loose soon I'll have to take it to a friend's place and see if I can stick it in his lathe and use a parting tool to remove metal off the barrel where it butts up to the receiver and maybe that will free it up? I'm out of ideas to break it loose now.

[GunnyMack]

If you have a large chest freezer and your wife doesn't mind put it in there overnight. Then put it back in the vise and add a little heat to the action. Hopefully there will be enough expansion and contraction to get some movement for the 140 years of gunk to break free.

Also a 50:50 mix of ATF( Not the government) and acetone as a penetrating oil, as the thinned ATF migrates the acetone evaporates getting deeper into all the nooks and crannies.

[Pat C]

Are you using dedicated octagon barrel vice insert ?

If not you need to , I wouldn't ruin the barrel somebody may need a reline candidate.

[marlinman93]

Are you using dedicated octagon barrel vice insert ?

If not you need to , I wouldn't ruin the barrel somebody may need a reline candidate.

I'm using dedicated oak wood V blocks that came with my barrel vise, and now switched to some ironwood V blocks I built myself for tough or stubborn barrels. I have a pair of aluminum V blocks on order yesterday, and hope they arrive in the next week. Then I'll try it again with those.
Don't care about the barrel, so I might consider cutting the shoulder off next to the action to relieve pressure against the receiver, and maybe even allow more oil or acetone/atf to get to the threads to break things loose. Probably going to cut some heavy rollbar tubing I have to also extend the 24" handle on my action wrench too.

[marlinman93]

Yippee!!! Really great news!
I am not patient, so I put the barreled action in my padded bench vise and used a hacksaw to make a 1/8" deep relief cut in the barrel as close to the action as possible. Less than 1/16" left right next to the action.
When I finished a few minutes ago I put it back in my barrel vise with my ironwood blocks, and put the action wrench on it. I got ready to give it what for, and it turned like it was almost hand tight! The darned cut worked great and the action came off the barrel with ease!
Now for the other good news! I hand tightened the Schoyen barrel into the action and it stopped just about 1/8th turn shy of indexing up perfectly! I'll try to tighten it a little more, and if it goes in place I'll check the breech block for proper headspace and .003" crush to know if it's also good!
I couldn't wait, so I cranked the Schoyen barrel down tight, and it wont quite index without tightening it too much. I'll stone the face of the receiver and it should go easily then.
Ballard breech blocks are easy to adjust if close by stoning the back of the block where it rides against the receiver opening. I'll also do a small amount on the front to clean up some pitting around the firing pin opening. These should all make it tight, and headspace correctly plus index correctly.
Right now the lever closes, but takes a fair amount to close it, and open it. More than the proper crush they need.

[GunnyMack]

That's great!
Hacksawing probably put enough heat in the right place to get it to let go .
You'll be shooting it in no time.

[Bill in Oregon]

You still have your golden touch, Vall!

[marlinman93]

That's great!
Hacksawing probably put enough heat in the right place to get it to let go .
You'll be shooting it in no time.

Considering the amount of heat I put on it three times with my Mapp gas torch I doubt the hacksawing added any heat. It wasn't even lukewarm once I finished. I think it was simply the shoulder of the barrel cranked too hard against the receiver, and once the cut relieved that pressure it came off easily.

I put the new barrel in my vise, and cranked it down pretty firmly, but it wont index up with the amount of pressure I like. So I'll take it back off and stone the face of the receiver a tiny bit and try it until it comes up with the right pressure. Then I'll stone the rear of the breech block also until it locks up correctly. After that it's all coming apart and I'll polish the action, breech blocks, lever and buttplate. Then send it all to Al Springer. While he does the CCH I'll refinish the stocks and get the checkering touched up also. I'll wait until after the end of the year to avoid the busy shipping times now.

[marlinman93]

You still have your golden touch, Vall!

Thanks Bill! It is coming together as good as I could hope for.

[marlinman93]

Got the Ballard all fitted now. The extractor was for a .38-55, but I happened to have one for a .40-63 that fit the extractor cut. The breech block locked up perfect until I installed the extractor and it was rubbing somewhere on the barrel and made a mark on the face of the breech block on the left side. I marked it up with black felt pen and began removing metal with my grinder. Must have had it together and apart 15-20 times before it finally closed normally. I was afraid to remove too much metal where I saw rub marks.
Took the breech blocks all apart and began polishing the parts. The left side of the action is going to take a lot of block sanding to get it smooth! The rest is easy as it's smooth, but just dark.
Also wrapped the barrel with 60 grit and began sanding the forearm over it to open up the channel to #4 weight round barrel. I removed the vertical sides as they got pretty thin and fragile. This forearm will sit under the barrel, not up the sides. In working on it I also discovered the forearm was checkered! There's so little left I never noticed it, but might show better once I strip the finish. Then the checkerer can have a pattern to know how to lay it out. Lots of tiresome work before I can send parts to Al!

[GunnyMack]

Nice bit of work Val- you know my hacksaw comment was in jest!
Im guessing these Ballards were all hand fit and having a source for parts is a boon for you. Sure makes things easier getting these ol irons back in order. Well done!

[marlinman93]

Nice bit of work Val- you know my hacksaw comment was in jest!
Im guessing these Ballards were all hand fit and having a source for parts is a boon for you. Sure makes things easier getting these ol irons back in order. Well done!

Yes, every Ballard was all hand fit, so some parts wont fit without work, like barrels. Things like hammers, screws, and small parts often fit perfect. Stocks occasionally fit well, or perfect, but sometimes might be a bit high or low to the metal.
Parts were much easier when Ballard Rifle Co. was making new rifles in Cody! With their closing in 2008 I had to start buying any good parts I could find to put in my storage bins! I have a few new screws, but those that commonly wear out are all gone now, and just used ones left. Have probably 4-5 hammers, some triggers, a couple different used levers, plus a couple castings of levers. Always looking for more, but often when I find parts they're either junk or crazy high prices.

[Pat C]

I talked to Al Springer via email other day on a Ruger project I want color cased . Unfortunately he told me he was no longer accepting that work.

[marlinman93]

I talked to Al Springer via email other day on a Ruger project I want color cased . Unfortunately he told me he was no longer accepting that work.

I'd assume he meant Ruger No. 1 work to color case. I know he's still doing color case as a friend just got his parts back from Al a couple days ago.

[marlinman93]

Got the Schoyen .40-50SS barrel fitted and the breech block also fitted.


Change of plans on the buttstock. The stock isn't really going to be as nice as this Ballard deserves. It needed something higher grade, and after digging through my box full of old donor stocks I found a stock and forearm that fits the bill!




This will no longer be a Swiss buttplate, and instead a hard rubber repro checkered black buttplate. The higher cheekpiece will make it work better with a scope mounted, or with taller tang sight. The forearm is much too bulbous, but plenty of wood to work with to shape it down to typical Ballard size. Then just need the forearm checkered as the buttstock is great.

[GunnyMack]

You made the right call on the new furniture!
That is going to be very nice when you are done.

[Pat C]

I talked to Al Springer via email other day on a Ruger project I want color cased . Unfortunately he told me he was no longer accepting that work.

I'd assume he meant Ruger No. 1 work to color case. I know he's still doing color case as a friend just got his parts back from Al a couple days ago.

It was Ruger single action frames and parts. Might want to call and see as he made it sound like he had more currently than he could do . .I was pretty disappointed.

Its easier to do revolver frames and parts than rifle actions.
They'll never be anouther like Donald Menk of Color Case Co.
RIP Don

[marlinman93]

It was Ruger single action frames and parts. Might want to call and see as he made it sound like he had more currently than he could do . .I was pretty disappointed.

Its easier to do revolver frames and parts than rifle actions.
They'll never be anouther like Donald Menk of Color Case Co.
RIP Don

Al usually tells me he color cases every day, so if parts are all polished out and ready to put in the furnace with others he gets them done quickly. I just need to talk to him about whether he need sacrificial screws for the breech block halves, so I can send old screws along if he does.

[Pat C]

Pre polished parts is what I wanted to send , he wasn't interested in mine .

[marlinman93]

Pre polished parts is what I wanted to send , he wasn't interested in mine .

Sorry to hear that. Maybe it's just Ruger handguns he's decided not to do anymore?

[Pat C]

I was pretty disappointed as I have multiple case color projects needing done . I guess it will have to be Turnbull, Wyoming Armory, or John Carroll

[marlinman93]

I was pretty disappointed as I have multiple case color projects needing done . I guess it will have to be Turnbull, Wyoming Armory, or John Carroll

I think it was those particular parts he doesn't color case anymore. I just got off the phone with Al and he said he's still doing it, and my parts will head off to him after the first of the year and he said they'll be headed back within the week they arrive.

[marlinman93]

Spent some quality time on the bulbous forearm yesterday using my #4 Stanley block plane to put it on a diet. I grabbed a chunk of 1"x1.5" wood and after removing the forearm screw bezel I ran a wood screw into the stick of wood so I could clamp that in my vise and plane the excess wood down. The plane made quick work of removing about half the excess wood, and I'll finish up with a wood rasp and files today to shape it and then begin sanding in preparation for finish. Sending my parts to Al today also, so it's coming together!

[marlinman93]

Rough shaped forearm.


Probably be another 1/8" off all over by the time I have it ready to begin applying finish.
Parts headed to Al Springer this morning, so just hoping they make it there without any issues!

[GunnyMack]

Have you ever tried a spokeshave?
I just recently purchased one and tinkered with it, my first thought was this would be great for forearms!

[marlinman93]

Have you ever tried a spokeshave?
I just recently purchased one and tinkered with it, my first thought was this would be great for forearms!

No I've never owned a spoke shave. I think it would work well, just haven't owned one. I do like the fact that a small plane keeps the surface flat since they have a long base that wont let me tilt it or dig in. If I ever see a spoke shave at a second hand store or garage sale I'll buy one just to try it.

[marlinman93]

Rough sanded the forearm with 60 grit, then switched to 320 grit once it was close. Got it ready for finish and applied one coat to the raw channel, and one wet sanded coat to the exterior to help fill any pores. This is really tight walnut and wont need much wet sanding as no pores showing up so far. But I decided to wait until I get the parts back and assemble the Ballard so I can check the forearm to receiver fit before I go any further with finish. So on hold for awhile until then.

[marlinman93]

Got the forearm cut out and the vee horn inlay done. Needs to cure the epoxy for 24 hrs. and then it can be cut down with a jeweler's saw, and filed/sanded smooth.

[marlinman93]

Got the height of the insert cut down, and then worked the horn down with a mill file. Man that horn is hard as heck! It literally squeals when I run the file across it each pass. Had to put my ear muffs on while I worked it down flush! I sanded it using a hard backer for the 320 paper as it would be easy to get the surrounding wood lower with it being softer. On hold for now as there's just nothing left to do until my parts get back.

[GunnyMack]

Squeaking and squealing, move the part you are filing closer to the vise and or lower.

Is that real buffalo horn?

[marlinman93]

Squeaking and squealing, move the part you are filing closer to the vise and or lower.

Is that real buffalo horn?

Yes, it's real buffalo horn. Moving is limited since I can't really clamp the forearm itself or risk cracking it if I clamp it tight enough to not wiggle. It's screwed through the mounting hole to the piece of hardwood so I can clamp that and not touch the forearm.