Looking for powder gurus?

[Canuck Bob]

I load for 2 centerfires, 32-20 and 444 both in strong modern levers. I reloaded years ago and enjoyed the load tinkering and experimentation. Nowadays my preference is simple, simple, simple for a simpleton! I used to feel like a gunpowder collector!

I'm hoping to load up a single load combo for each rifle and shoot lots. I'm hoping to find one powder to load both. When finances allow I'll be buying an LBT mold for both. 300 grain 1600-1800 fps for the 444 and 120 grainer 1400-1800 fps for the 32-20. My Lyman manual indicates that a number of powders can be used in both rifles.

I'm hoping for advice on picking one powder with the best chance of being succesful right away. I don't like the tiny fast powder charges and prefer charges with some density. Any advice sure would be welcome.

[Griff]

I can't get just one powder to work for ONE caliber, let alone more. (Well... unless it's a BP cartridge!) While I've found a couple of powders that work in more than one caliber, and even use some of them... But since there's so much variance in the uses I'll put a caliber to... it almost always takes at least two powders to cover all my needs.

To explain just how bad I am... I only load one 20 guage load... but the powder I use for it doesn't meet the needs of my 12 guage uses.

All I can say is, "Good Luck!"

[Canuck Bob]

Thanks Griff, it seems half of my schemes aren't feasable. Advice like this is valuable.

[Terry Murbach]

WAAAAAAY TOO MANY COMPROMISES HERE AS THE DIFFERENCE IN THE CARTRIDGE CAPACITIES IS IMMENSE. IN MY EXPERIENCE HANDLOADING IS NOT THE PLACE TO BE MAKING WISHED- FOR--HOPED- UPON-CLOSE-ENOUGH-FOR-GUMMIT-WORK DESIRES.
IF YOU WISH TO LOAD THOSE TWO CARTRIDGES DO IT RIGHT OR DO NOT DO IT AT ALL.

[KirkD]

I've used IMR 4198 in both the 32-20 and the 45-70, so I imagine that IMR 4198 could be used in the 444 as well. IMR 4198 was my main powder in the 32-20 for several years. It fills up the 32-20 case pretty well. The slight bottle neck, coupled with the heavier than usual bullet for your 32-20, might give you what you want in that cartridge. My office is gutted right now, due to the Queen of Hearts (my wife) painting it, but if I can find my 32-20 folder, I'll check my IMR 4198 results. IMR 4198 has been my main 45-70 powder, so I'm pretty sure you'll be good with the 444.

[AJMD429]

Accurate AA-5744 & Hodgdon H-4198 are both ones that come up in Ammoguide.com's Powder Application Guide, which allows you to pick several cartridges, then it lists any powders which data are available in for all those you selected.

Actually, it came up with seven powders with data for both cartridges. http://ammoguide.com

Anyway, the 5744 is one I used years ago for the .32-20 without problems. I think I was getting about 1,500 fps from a 115 GC cast bullet, without 'pushing' the top end. Never used 5744 in a .444, but I do see published data for it for the 265 gr. JSP type bullets.

[KirkD]

I would also agree with AJMD's suggestions, though 5744 is a little faster than H4198 and IMR4198, so it will fill the case a little less. I wonder how RL 7 would do in the 32-20? It's a little slower still than 4198, so would fill both cases better, but I don't know if you'd have enough room in the 32-20 case. You'd have to work up a load and chronograph it as you went.

[Canuck Bob]

Great link.

The 32-20 has a 24" tube, shouldn't that help a bit with slower powder?

The 4198s are a very common 444 powder. Time to check out the ammoguide link.

[w30wcf]

+1 with Kirk's recommendation. Regarding RL7, a capacity load in the .32-20 (13 grs.) under a 120 gr. cast bullet clocked an average of 1,369 f.p.s. with a 1 1/2" Rem pistol primer, 1,427 f.p.s. with a WSPM primer and 1,406 f.p.s. with a Rem 6 1/2 small rifle primer.

w30wcf

[AJMD429]

I would also agree with AJMD's suggestions, though 5744 is a little faster than H4198 and IMR4198, so it will fill the case a little less. I wonder how RL 7 would do in the 32-20? It's a little slower still than 4198, so would fill both cases better, but I don't know if you'd have enough room in the 32-20 case. You'd have to work up a load and chronograph it as you went.

Here's the ones listed I was referring to, so RL-7 was also suggested. If I recall, some of the .32-20 4198 loads were compressed, so you're right about the volumes.

1. Accurate AA-1680
2. Alliant/Hercules Unique
3. Accurate AA-2230
4. Hodgdon H-4198
5. Accurate AA-5744
6. IMR 4227
7. Alliant/Hercules Reloder-7

The only RL-7 load listed was a 1600 fps 'rifle only' load for 90 grain Sierra using 15 grains, but 47 grains in the .444 was listed as pushing a 265 gr Hornady at 2215 fps.

I went through a similar thought-experiment with my reloading a couple years ago, realizing that components would get pricey and/or unavailable for at least awhile due to the 2008 election coming up (...and I got that one right, huh...). The end result for my 10 or so cartridges, prioritizing a few 'main' ones, was to stock up on IMR-4895, Unique, SR-4759, & 2400 - they covered all my cartridge needs well, except a couple odd-ball rounds which they were 'useable' for but not 'ideal' for. Truth be told, I think I could have dropped down to two powders, and gotten by, though as TERRY said, you start sacrificing potential performance at some point.

Note: as many have commented on the forum before, I only use on-line and other "non-factory" load data as 'starting points', and never load from any data until I find two or three other listings in the same ballpark. Call me paranoid, but I still have 10 fingers and 2 eyes. Still, I find the on-line searchable loading forums to be great for at least 'ruling out' certain powders, or seeing if others may be more advantageous. Your mileage may vary...

[KirkD]

With regard to reloading the 32-20, if you are using it for small game, I find that 1,200 fps is plenty. My standard 32-20 load is 1,200 fps with a 115 grain bullet. It always goes clean through ground hogs. A couple weeks ago, my shot went low and it plowed into the dry, hard-packed clay mound the 'hog was sitting on. I dug the bullet out ..... 8" of penetration into dry, hard clay. You might not be able to stuff enough RL-7 into your 32-20 case to get the higher velocities, but if you are willing to settle for something a little slower (but still plenty sufficient), then RL-7 and IMR 4198 might be the two best powders that give the fullest cases for both cartridges, but still excellent performance.

[AJMD429]

...then RL-7 and IMR 4198 might be the two best powders that give the fullest cases for both cartridges, but still excellent performance.

I do like having loads that almost fill the case, just as one more bit of insurance against double-charging. In fact, my old 6mm Rem load with 4831 was compressed, filling the case within 1/8" of the mouth yet still not near the maximum listed, so that a couple times when out of ammo, and wanting to shoot a few quick rounds with a buddy, I'd just 'dip' the case into a cup of powder, shake, re-dip, and repeat, then when full to the case mouth, just dump enough back out to easily seat the bullets with my little Lee 'Target Model' reloader. Funny thing was, those loads STILL shot into 1" at 100 yards (the measured ones would do 1/4" 5-shot groups, though).

[Canuck Bob]

Actually I want large charges that reach a high load density. 100-110% would suit me fine.

One question what is the difference between H and IMR 4198? Burning charts put them side by side for burning rate.

H4198 (appears the IMR stuff is history, just found out I'm wrong here) is considered a premier powder for the 444. The 444 is my moose gun and a very trusted friend that has stared down grizzly bears with me. To me a Canadian man without a moose rifle is a little bit pathetic, I know its a terrible prejudice but its mine. Truth is it will get shot enough to stay current but its no plinker. 4198 and 265 Hornadys are all I need. Since I quit hunting this gun is my carry in bear country with the kids.

When it comes to the 32-20 something strange grips me. I tell everyone I want simplicity, a fun plinker, economical rifle. I plan 120 LBT plain base LFNs shot as cast with found wheel weights in a slow quiet round that babies rifle and brass. THEN I daydream about Paco's loads and 2200 fps gas checked bullets cast of unobtainium with Star lubers and progressive presses!

Am I the only one who suffers from this evil affliction?

[KirkD]

I've not heard that IMR 4198 is history ..... it is a pretty popular powder. The burn rates between H4198 and IMR4198 are so similar, it is not worth worrying about unless a fellow was using Max loads, which I never do. There is a temptation to stoke up loads, a temptation to which I consistently fell to in my younger years. More recently, I've discovered that the old cartridges actually killed just fine at their original ballistics, so I've been down-sizing my loads over the past few years. This is not to say that a fellow can't try out the original High Velocity loads for quite a few of the old cartridges such as the 32-20, the 44-40, the 38-40, and the 38-55, to name a few. They have their uses. For example, if I was going Elk Hunting with the 38-55, I'd be tempted to use the High Velocity loads that were popular for the first half of the 1900's.