Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

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AJMD429
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Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:35 am

Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
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piller
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#2 Post by piller » Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:57 am

Not to create any ill will, but I noticed that there were several drawn guns at the Church in December and not one round that endangered anyone was fired by the parishioners. Perfect example of not shooting until you can identify your target and not hit something that you might regret later. The one single round fired by a church member did not endanger anyone. It stopped the active threat. No, I am not going to use this as a means to talk about if or could have been scenarios. The member who fired the shot which stopped the threat was a good shot.

My takeaway: practice with your concealed carry firearm! You never know when you might need to stop a murderer with a well placed shot. I hope it never happens, but hope doesn't get the job done.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#3 Post by FWiedner » Sat Jan 04, 2020 11:44 am

Two shots were fired by the response team.

The first man who was shot got one round off and into a wall.

The second round from another member (his one shot) of the response team stopped the assailant.

:|
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#4 Post by piller » Sat Jan 04, 2020 9:49 pm

Still...Practice with what you carry is important.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#5 Post by Blaine » Sun Jan 05, 2020 6:35 pm

piller wrote:
Sat Jan 04, 2020 7:57 am
Not to create any ill will, but I noticed that there were several drawn guns at the Church in December and not one round that endangered anyone was fired by the parishioners. Perfect example of not shooting until you can identify your target and not hit something that you might regret later. The one single round fired by a church member did not endanger anyone. It stopped the active threat. No, I am not going to use this as a means to talk about if or could have been scenarios. The member who fired the shot which stopped the threat was a good shot.

My takeaway: practice with your concealed carry firearm! You never know when you might need to stop a murderer with a well placed shot. I hope it never happens, but hope doesn't get the job done.
I've been chewing on this since it happened. Two good guys were shot and killed. One of them got off a shot. The other was armed and ready to engage. I don't want to take away one iota of praise for the man who shot the bad guy, but those other two guys sacrificed themselves and gave the third man a couple seconds to make his fatal shot.
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#6 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Jan 05, 2020 10:46 pm

I haven't seen a decent video....so....were the innocent people who were killed armed as well...? Did they draw their weapons...?
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#7 Post by piller » Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 pm

The one Deacon killed was serving communion. He never even reached for a gun. The other member killed had drawn a firearm, I think. I cannot find the video now.
D. Brian Casady
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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#8 Post by Dave James » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:58 pm

Every time that stupidity came up while I was working the road, I would remind those espousing that, the U.S. Supreme Court held several years ago, the "Police"
are for the protection of the group, not the individual. Used to make them scratch their heads

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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#9 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:33 pm

Yeah, PLUS the United States was the FIRST EVER government to be created by a bunch of citizens, rather than previously existing for near-eternity as a royalty hand-me-down or other dictatorial regime. In the latter, more normal/common scenario, the government holds ALL power, with no limit, and grants limited 'rights' to the citizens on occasion when politically expedient. For the first time in world history, in the U.S., the government has ZERO powers other than the limited ones the citizens granted to them, with the CITIZENS holding all other power not delegated to the member states.

In other words - - - the citizens grant the police the right to have firearms, subject to the type, chambering, magazine capacity, carry restrictions, and usage limitations the CITIZENS decide upon.....NOT the other way around.

Granted, the citizens should grant a fair amount of firearms freedom to the police, so they can do their job well and safely, but that IS the direction of the power, not the other way around.

And in return, there are some limitations that the citizens may allow the government to place on citizens who misbehave recklessly or criminally, and the citizens may decide that they are willing to allow the government to prohibit things like fully-automatic rifles, or bazookas.......HOWEVER, the citizens have the right to remove those prohibitions without government over-ride.

None of that sits well with the moviestars or politicians or dumbascraps, though.... :D
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

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Re: Mises on the "only cops should have guns" argument...

#10 Post by Ysabel Kid » Wed Jan 08, 2020 8:49 pm

piller wrote:
Sun Jan 05, 2020 11:47 pm
The one Deacon killed was serving communion. He never even reached for a gun. The other member killed had drawn a firearm, I think. I cannot find the video now.
There are a lot of lessons to be learned. The security team certainly prevented a lot of deaths. Unfortunately, the security member who died could have improved his chances of survival. In the video you can see him struggling to get his gun out. Carrying in the small of the back contributed greatly to this. Also waiting to commence his draw until he after he stood up (and caught the attention of the attacker) didn't help. Both contributed to him dying from a case of slow, as they said years ago.
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