Woe is me.......

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Ray
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Woe is me.......

#1 Post by Ray » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:54 pm

Since the awful tragedies of late, all the women in my immediate and extended family, from ages 8 to 80 + have been railing and ranting, loud and long, against "assault rifles" sales and ownership.

I had plenty of arguments but was a coward and just went away until it all blows over.....You know, "choose your battles" and so on......
m.A.g.a. !

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BlaineG
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Re: Woe is me.......

#2 Post by BlaineG » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:10 pm

That's pretty good sarcasm, Brother.
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piller
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Re: Woe is me.......

#3 Post by piller » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm

PillHer was in the Army and knows the difference. In fact, she was able to hit well enough to be top ranked in her platoon. I had an old M16. It was probably about 60 years old and a rattletrap. The front sight post was bent. No forward assist. The barrel didn't have any chrome left. It was about a pound and a half lighter than the others. That raised up rail that caught the dust cover so you could close the dust cover was not even a part of the rifle. We are talking original M16, way before the A1. The good part was that it went bang every time.
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Ray
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Re: Woe is me.......

#4 Post by Ray » Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:20 pm

piller wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
PillHer was in the Army and knows the difference. In fact, she was able to hit well enough to be top ranked in her platoon. I had an old M16. It was probably about 60 years old and a rattletrap. The front sight post was bent. No forward assist. The barrel didn't have any chrome left. It was about a pound and a half lighter than the others. That raised up rail that caught the dust cover so you could close the dust cover was not even a part of the rifle. We are talking original M16, way before the A1. The good part was that it went bang every time.
If you were in the army in the 1980's how could the m16 be 60 years old when you were qualifying ? I'm not real smart but I would expect an apothecary to have better math skills than that !
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AJMD429
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Re: Woe is me.......

#5 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:15 pm

Yeah, in my family, like most, there are three groups of people:

1. People who know that 'gun control' is not just a useless symbolic way for politicians to virtue-signal, but a clear threat to safe streets right here and now, and a clear threat to a stable society in the future. Most of the ones in this group can cite specific data to back up their assertions. This group will be glad to have "an open and honest discussion" about 'gun violence', and will do so politely, with organized, rational thoughts, backed up by solid data, and they WON'T resort to physical violence, screaming, and/or calling those who disagree with them "racists".

2. People who 'know' that if we would just "do something" that we could avoid all these "senseless tragedies", and blame the "gun lobby" for preventing prohibition of "guns made for the sole purpose of killing people" (they don't even realize that just by using that phrase they are displaying such lack of knowledge about AR-15's that any opinions they have shouldn't even be taken seriously). This group knows nothing about firearms, ballistics, or the national or international experiences with interdictive 'gun control' policies - all they know is "guns scary" so "guns bad". It is tempting to try to reach them, because some of them seem genuinely motivated by a sincere desire to make the world safer, and if they only knew the facts, surely they would become gun control opponents instead of proponents. However, it is IMPOSSIBLE to have the "open and honest discussion" with them that they insist is needed, because although they seem to care about saving lives, they evidently don't care ENOUGH to learn about and truly understand the issue, so anything remotely complicated involving history or criminology or details about how firearms work exceeds their patience and attention span, so they revert to circular logic, bouncing from 'issue' to 'issue', even to the point that when you have solidly refuted them all, they return to the first one, because all they know is emotional talking points. Sadly, the majority of this group is far more interested in boosting their image than they are in contributing to any sort of constructive public policy to address violent crime, so they 'virtue-signal' by supporting 'gun control' - not caring that they are supporting legislation that inevitably leads to MORE innocent deaths, time and time again.

3. People who aren't really into the 'gun debate' at all, and who logically realize that 'gun control' is useless, although they don't really grasp how dangerous it is. Unfortunately, when enough sensory-overload comes at once in the face of high-profile firearms crimes, they tend to default to "Well, more gun control laws may not help to make us safer, but we have to do something...!" If we want to treat 'gun violence' as a 'public health' issue, we need to realize that giving the wrong treatment can be worse than no treatment, and even seemingly-benign things like 'universal background checks' are not only ineffective, but dangerous.

-----------

The people in the first group would include many gun owners, but not the majority, and includes a fair number of non-gun-owners who simply understand history and political science better than most. They DO need to speak up though, because the soundest data and arguments in the world are ineffective if unspoken.

The second group isn't worth bothering with - they are self-centered zealots who are more concerned with their own 'image' than they are with actually making society better.

The third group actually IS reachable to some extent, but they require constant re-education, because they aren't all that motivated to research the issue enough to build a foundation of facts that rebut the fabrications and distortions of the second group, so even after you prove to them why it would be dangerous to ban such-and-such, or dangerous to pass 'background checks' because the government insists on a gun registry, six months later they have forgotten the logic and will go along with the latest gun control proposal in a fit of emotion.

Maintaining a Constitutional Republic is quite a bit of work, but nobody said it would be easy....
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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BlaineG
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Re: Woe is me.......

#6 Post by BlaineG » Sun Aug 04, 2019 7:17 pm

Ray wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 3:20 pm
piller wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:30 pm
PillHer was in the Army and knows the difference. In fact, she was able to hit well enough to be top ranked in her platoon. I had an old M16. It was probably about 60 years old and a rattletrap. The front sight post was bent. No forward assist. The barrel didn't have any chrome left. It was about a pound and a half lighter than the others. That raised up rail that caught the dust cover so you could close the dust cover was not even a part of the rifle. We are talking original M16, way before the A1. The good part was that it went bang every time.
If you were in the army in the 1980's how could the m16 be 60 years old when you were qualifying ? I'm not real smart but I would expect an apothecary to have better math skills than that !
He DID say "probably...about" 8)
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piller
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Re: Woe is me.......

#7 Post by piller » Mon Aug 05, 2019 1:03 am

I was just giving an approximation of how old it seemed at the time. I had seen muskets that appeared newer. I know it couldn't have been much over 23 years old. It had a life as hard as any rifle I have ever seen.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost

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Ysabel Kid
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Re: Woe is me.......

#8 Post by Ysabel Kid » Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:07 pm

So far, knock on wood, no one has been dumb enough to push for gun control in front of me. Last time that happened, about 20 years ago, I embarrassed the person so badly I thought I was going to get kicked out of the family! Everyone knows where I stand - and that I won't pull any punches, even for my own mother!

Now half of my in-laws are Dem's, and yes, they are dumb enough, regardless of me chewing up their feelings (as they have no solid logic-based points) and spitting them out sideways. Then again, being Dem's, they have to be that dumb!
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Re: Woe is me.......

#9 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:00 am

Ysabel Kid wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 8:07 pm
Now half of my in-laws are Dem's, and yes, they are dumb enough, regardless of me chewing up their feelings (as they have no solid logic-based points) and spitting them out sideways. Then again, being Dem's, they have to be that dumb!
Same here....just AMAZING how clueless they are about their own ignorance....no self-awareness at all....!
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

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