Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

Post all political posts here.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
The rules are simple...
- no advocation of violence to anyone
- no cursing

Violation of the rules will result in deletion of the topic.
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24037
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:39 pm

Dan Bongino had a good podcast (as always) today - https://bongino.com/ep-906-dont-give-th ... adicalism/, and about 41 minutes into it (it is all worth listening to though), made a very succinct case for why we should NOT vote for 'third' parties in a presidential election, in major part because there is almost NO way they can win, anyway. Perhaps this is a true fault of the 'system', which should allow citizens to vote for ANY candidate (not 'just one') on the ballot, and if so, we should correct that, but until that is done, voting 'third' party is not sensible. Also I think one could make an exception if you were POSITIVE about how the house of reprehensibles would vote were none of the candidates to get the electoral votes needed to win, and both of the 'major' party candidates truly stunk.

Having said that, I do vote Libertarian for many city, county, and state positions, and they occasionally win. When they do, they re-direct the perspective from "which rights can we trample on" to "let's not trample on ANY rights", and I think that's healthy. The nation's founders were far more in alignment with today's Libertarian or 'Constitutional' parties than either the Dumbascraps or the RINO's, and having them hold positions on county councils and so forth helps point out the idiocy of BOTH the 'major' parties when they put the State over the Citizen.

The REAL political dipole is between those who favor the supremacy of the State versus those who favor the supremacy of the Individual, and the Dumbascraps favor 'social' out 'moral' freedom mostly, but are AWFUL when it comes to 'material' or 'economic' freedoms, and the RINO party gives some deference to material/economic freedoms, yet stifles social/moral freedom. "Moderates" ('Centrists' on the chart below) are all-too-often wishy-washy individuals who either are politically clueless, or tend to favor government control over BOTH social and economic freedom... :roll: If we consider 'moderates' those who are part-left, and part-right, that spectrum would include those who want all the government controls the left AND the right want - more properly we should call those people "authoritarians" in the model of Hitler or Stalin, AND it would include those who want all the freedoms the left and the right demand - more properly we should call those people "libertarians". Although different groups adopt 'labels' that aren't always truthful (think the co-opting of the term 'progresssssssssive'... :roll: ), the difference between 'authoritarian' and 'libertarian' types in practical terms (impact to the citizen) is far greater than the difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative'.

For more on the two, or even three-dimensional nature of the REAL political world versus the antiquated and simplistic one-dimensional "left versus right" model that dooms us to picking "the lesser of two evils", see http://www.friesian.com/quiz.htm (and no you DO NOT have to take a 'quiz'... :wink: )

The REAL political difference is along the up/down axis on the chart below, NOT the 'left/right' one:
2-d-quiz.gif
Anyway, as a small-L libertarian (i.e. one who believes in individual rights and the constitution, but not always the hard-core Libertarian Party platform), I thought Bongino's podcast gave good reasons NOT to vote Libertarian in a presidential race, although for local and state races I think it is a great option.

(....See BlaineG.....I actually CAN be taught.... :wink: )
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws[/size]
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

piller
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 7798
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 9:49 pm
Location: South of Dallas

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#2 Post by piller » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:48 pm

If we could publicly hang anyone caught in election fraud, it might maybe possibly give politicians cause to think about it.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24037
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#3 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 7:42 am

I'd be ok with a nationwide election where every month a politician was selected to publicly hang; there's so many of them it wouldn't dent the population, but it might keep them in line better. Each month a raffle could be held for who gets to pull the lever at the gallows.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws[/size]
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
OldWin
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3137
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:38 pm
Location: Maine

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#4 Post by OldWin » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:58 am

To me, a "third party" was elected last time. Not technically, but we could call it the "outsider party".
Sadly, I also believe that control of this country has been so lost, that whether Trump is re elected or not doesn't matter. We will NEVER see this happen again, and we will pay dearly for what we've done. A hole was shown to them in their bag. They will close it up.
They will put their 4 or 8 years lost in their plan behind them, and get back to business with renewed fervor.
This same sort of thing happened in Maine. Our last governor, bless him, was much like Trump. We have a billion dollar surplus and have become the most fiscally well off state in the US. This last election, it went back to worse than it was before.
Its not a two party system. It's a one party system, with the illusion of a two party system. That's why nothing changes. Both "parties" believe in absolute power.
There is a cabal running this country.
"Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as he chambered another round.

User avatar
BlaineG
Posting leader...
Posts: 26815
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#5 Post by BlaineG » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:15 pm

We all know that RINOs exist and are traitors, but I invite you to compare the 'Crat platform with the CPUSA platform...Identical.
Just one item sort of proves my point: All the judges and senior military officers that Obama appointed.

http://www.cpusa.org/

https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

https://gop.com/platform/

Go ahead..call them "the same" but I'll know if you do that you have not been paying attention. :P
If You Back Me Into A Corner There Will Not Be Enough Room For Both Of Us. :evil:

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24037
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#6 Post by AJMD429 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:49 pm

Circling the Drain Politically.png
The purple line is sort of what has been happening, as we bounce back and forth from 'Left' to 'Right', each time our 'correction' also moves us more towards Authoritarianism. I do think Trump was the best option, and is the ONLY 'politician' (because he's NOT a politician) who stands a chance of draining the swamp, although he in most respects is more Authoritarian than I'd like.

Time will tell.

Our biggest enemy isn't any political party, or the news media, or the raving fools who support socialism - it is OURSELVES, and our overall apathy. I know most of us here write legislaturds regularly, write letters to the editor and so on, and contribute to organizations that further different segments of liberty, but 'out there' in the rest of the 'conservative' world, VERY FEW are politically active.

A state legislator patient of mine says on most issues he'd get maybe a dozen letters or emails on either side, typically from the same handful of activists who just write him about everything that comes up. If the issue "made the news" he might get a few dozen communications about the matter, and if it was an extremely contentious issue, maybe one issue per year, he'd get as many as 300-400 letters about it. Now think about that - Indiana has about 6 million citizens, and at least 4 million of them are old enough to vote, old enough to care, and potentially affected - yet only one in every ten thousand bothered to express an opinion.... :evil: :roll: :evil: :|

That's the way it is with "gun" issues as well - I've talked to federal legislators who said that a few thousand letters would be an EXTREME situation and a big attention-getter, but even on things like assault-weapons bans, that would be the most he'd get. 250 million or so people of-age who stand to be severely affected by an issue, and still, about one out of ten thousand actually takes the time to try to influence the legislature.

We wait until AFTER the ban to express our disappointment and anger, when the law is almost impossible to un-do, instead of getting off our butts and PREVENTING the ban in the first place.

As I commented in another thread though, we (especially men) do the same thing with our own medical care.

It is apparently human nature.

It would be nice if we could channel some of our testosterone-macho energy into STIFLING this legislative garbage (not just gun laws, but minimum wage, and all sorts of other counterproductive stuff) instead of just reacting to it afterwards.... :|
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws[/size]
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
BlaineG
Posting leader...
Posts: 26815
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 2:22 pm
Location: Spanaway, Washington

Re: Libertarians and other 'third' parties...

#7 Post by BlaineG » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:24 pm

It would be nice if we could channel some of our testosterone-macho energy into STIFLING this legislative garbage (not just gun laws, but minimum wage, and all sorts of other counterproductive stuff) instead of just reacting to it afterwards.... :|
Wait...What? Speak for yourself, Brother :wink: .... The ILA will guide anybody thru the process of contacting Congress and state lawmakers.
If You Back Me Into A Corner There Will Not Be Enough Room For Both Of Us. :evil:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests