Loading for 45 Auto

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earlmck
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Loading for 45 Auto

Post by earlmck »

Or -- "Trials and Tribulations of an old revolver guy trying to load for the dad-blasted Automatic thingy"
45Auto065.jpg
Been reloading for revolvers for something over 50 years; should be no big deal to do the same for grandkids' newly acquired 45 autos, wouldn't you figure? I think I finally have it, but it didn't happen the first time, or the second.

So the first thing us old cast bullet shooters do is we size those bullets at least a thousandth over groove diameter, right? Well not for this old scrounger who has a bucket of range-pickup brass accumulated over the past 50 years or so. At .453 diameter on the bullet I had a fair sprinkling of cases that wouldn't chamber because of "too fat in the neck" syndrome. You'd think I would have picked up on that before we ever headed out shooting wouldn't you? Nope, not the "Know-it-all Kid". We had to get out on the windy slopes with the tin cans distributed before finding out that about 20% of 'em wouldn't chamber. Luck of the draw the two or three I had tried for fit when I started the initial loading did seem to fit just fine.

Back to the loading room, size those short-fat bullets down to .4515 (what my ".452" sizer turns out). Oh yes, these appear to work even in the military brass that had been the most likely offender initially. So... loaded up a bunch and back to the tin can shoot. Sheeesh! bunch of these won't quite chamber and so the dang thing won't let you pull the trigger. What's going on? (I'll bet you old 45-with-cast-bullet reloaders know, but the "Know-it-all Kid" didn't). Yep, turns out that my habit of only belling the case the bare minimum was my undoing. Even though I didn't scrape up any lead when seating the bullet with this "just barely enough" belling procedure, I was scraping up a little of the lube, which would accumulate at the top of the case and result in (I suppose you'd call it) "insufficient headspace" so the thing wouldn't quite close and so wouldn't fire.

So... small enough bullets, nice generous bell, two-step seat/crimp, and the dang things finally seem to function 100%. Now I just have to remember to bring a big tarp to stand on to catch the empties that seem to go every direction except for left.
Trophy066.jpg
Yeah, heckuva bunch of fun to shoot when I finally got them functioning!
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Last edited by earlmck on Wed Feb 02, 2022 1:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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JimT
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by JimT »

Had that with a couple guns .. a SIG and a Kahr... The throats were tight. Loads that functioned in the 1911's and others did that to me in those guns. I found I had to seat the cast bullets deeper because their full diameter was further forward than the same weight jacketed bullets. Adjust the powder charge accordingly and everything was fine.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Rockrat »

I run mine thru a taper crimp die until they chamber.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Sixgun »

Earl,
None of use ever know it all and never "always get it right" and that's what makes our game mind provoking......I use the same bullet you are using in a Seventy Series Colt and size to .451. Bell just enough for the bullet to enter and that's it...no taper crimp....also shoot them out of an early model Smith 1955 Target.....no walk out and they always chamber.......well, with the 1955 sometimes one won't enter all the way.....

It's the match chambers on some guns.

I also like the 200 gr. Lyman SWC seated with the mouth of the case almost equal to the the top of the first driving band.

Bullseye or Unique ...but you knew that....we old heads load about everything with Bullseye, Unique, and 4895-----006
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CowboyTutt
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by CowboyTutt »

Good story Earl, thanks! I have a bunch of 10mm to load up for my 1911 Kimber. Right now working on getting new sights installed on it. -Tutt
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Sarge
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Sarge »

What Taylor and Rockrat said.

When I started loading 45 auto, it was for an AMTU built Ithaca with a National Match barrel, I was running into the same problems you described. I got a Hornady taper crimp die, learned to use it and in the 25 years since I can't recall ten malfunctions with 12-14 .45 autos that passed through my hands.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

All my .45 ACP problems went away when I started using Dillon dies. I just don't have those issues anymore. I haven't adjusted them in probably 25 years. I just clean the insert for the seating die and the taper crimp die when they get too much lube built up in them.
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OldWin
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by OldWin »

I agree with Scott. Dillon dies applies a crimp that works well in semi autos.
I keep my crimp diameter at .471 for 45acp. It works on either military or commercial brass.
"Oh bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Griff »

A big +1 to Sixgun, Scott and JimT. I never really had any problems loading for the 45ACP until just the year before last. Don't know what I did to start the problem, but it started with a bullet change, from a 200 grain H&G mold that I sized to .452, to a store bought .451 RFN. Cured the problem with change to seating depth. But, now I check each round in a checker. if it falls in flush, all good, if not, re-seat and crimp. My brass is nearly all range scrounged brass (about 4 1-½ gallon ice cream buckets full) and recently a few reloads from a couple of cans of Federal ball that my son bought.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by stretch »

I had a 10mm that was like that.

One brand of brass had a SLIGHTLY thicker wall thickness than the other I was using.
It would NOT reliably chamber with lead bullets.
If I remember correctly, it would fit in the Midway gauge for 10mm okay, though.
I use that brand for jacketed, and the other brand for lead. Problem solved.
Frustrating head-scratcher for a bit, though! LOL!

-Stretch
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

I don't trim and I don't sort by head stamp and I often use different bullets, so I run into some issues off and on. The best thing I've done to save issues when I go to shoot, is do what Griff does. I bought a Wilson case gauge and I always check the first few I load to make sure they drop, and release out of the case gauge like they should---after doing this, 99.9% of my chambering issues went away.

It's a "o'stuff did I really do that" day when I load 300 or so rounds and go to the range and find out a bunch won't chamber. The case gauge has made these days a thing of the past.

When I shot XTC with an AR, I always ran my match brass through a case gauge and never had a hitch. I should have figured out sooner that case gauges also work on other rounds.

I generally chamber my sized brass in my centerfire rifles to make sure they are fine, and then chamber some loaded rounds to make sure the OAL is Ok, but never do the same with pistol cartridges, so I got bit a lot with pistol rounds, even in carbines.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by AmBraCol »

I was done with ol' Flatsides. Off loaded the pistol and all the loaded ammo a few years ago. Never again. Hate picking up brass. Then I got a chance at Jeff Quinn's Shootists' 30th Anniversary Ruger and got carried away and bought it. Hadn't loaded any 45 ACP in decades, but still had the Lyman dies and a few Speer hollowpoints. Loaded them up over a snort of Unique and had some ammo to shoot. They all went bang and generally where I aimed 'em. But that crazy brass strewing habit of the bottom feeders drives me nuts. Oh well, grabbed a new box of Hornady XTP hollowpoints and started to load 'em up. Ran into an issue after a couple dozen, the crazy things wouldn't slide into the case, crumpled a couple cases and broke out the micrometer. Sure enough, Hornady had packaged a few over diameter bullets in there. Contacted them and they gave me a return ticket for the defective bullets which I then packed up and sent them. Then forgot about it. A couple weeks ago I got an email from Hornady about an incoming package which was duly delivered, so this summer I'll have another go at it.

Now I'm trying to remember if I've got a 45 ACP bullet mold or not. I'm pretty sure that old 0.452 sizing die is in the midden heap somewhere. Need to cast some up and give 'em a go. Never had an issue loading with the Lyman die set, but only ever loaded for the old Model Of The 1911 Norinco before last summer. Keep thinking I need a 45 ACP cylinder for the old Vaquero, that would keep fired brass in a more user friendly radius.
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Scott Tschirhart
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Scott Tschirhart »

I'm supposed to pick up a Talo Blackhawk today that is chambered only in .45 ACP. In fact the frame is marked ".45 ACP"

.45 ACP Blackhawks do not kick brass too far out.

However, you don't need a cartridge guage to load .45s to fit your chamber.

I used to take the barrel out of my Government Model and hand dropped a loaded cartridge into the chamber. If it dropped in with a "thunk!" it was good to go. If it had any resistance, I would turn my taper crimp down a bit until I got the "thunk!" I was looking for.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by 2ndovc »

I've found that when I'm reloading for the Rugers with auto pistol chamberings that I have to pay far more attention to a well tapered crimp and overall cartridge length. Especially with the .40 S&W. That one is tight. If I don't, closing the loading gate is tight or won't close at all. The S&W and Colt revolvers using moon clips aren't as picky, but I've still run across a few that wouldn't chamber with a poorly sized case. I had several thousand rounds of .45 ACP that my grandfather had loaded in his later years and I think he wasn't paying as much attention as he used to. They would shoot better through a 1911, but not all. I got very good at clearing jammed pistols.

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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by Old Savage »

I started reloading with a Dillon RL550B and 45 Auto, Dillon dies, never had a problem.
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earlmck
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by earlmck »

AmBraCol wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:36 pm Now I'm trying to remember if I've got a 45 ACP bullet mold or not. Keep thinking I need a 45 ACP cylinder for the old Vaquero, that would keep fired brass in a more user friendly radius.
Yes, the way these flangerbangers treat cases sure does make us old revolver guys cringe. Grandsons and I were shooting two of the 1911 style pistols and both would mostly pile them off to the right but would put the occasional case a ways forward or fling one clear back over the shoulder. I think if I stood on the left side of a 10X12 tarp it would collect almost all of them :D

And if you don't find that bullet mould the ones in my picture are made with a 6-cavity Lee which fairly turns a bunch of them out in a hurry. And they seemed to shoot better than I thought I was capable of doing with these older eyeballs.

I'm glad to see that other folks have needed to sit up and pay attention when they load for the autos. I feel kinda' sheepish about my first attempts being a long ways from satisfactory. But maybe loading for the autos will make me up my game a notch and improve things for the revolvers also. The big thing that took me a while to diagnose was that scraping up enough lube on the front of the case to keep the cartridge from quite seating to the bottom of the chamber which is obviously a bad deal with a case that headspaces up there on the case mouth. With my "just barely enough flare" I must be doing the same thing with my revolver rounds. I wonder if that is part of the reason why I sometimes have to press a cartridge in the cylinder quite firmly to get it fully chambered. I believe I will give everything taking a cast bullet a bit more neck flare henceforth.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by JimT »

I like to lay a big tarp out on the ground and shoot on the left side of it. Then just roll up the tarp, stick in the back of my truck and go home. At home I just pour out the contents into a bucket and then transfer them to my case cleaner. Saves a lot of bending over and hunting for the empties.

I also use a taper crimp on all my loads.
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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by AmBraCol »

earlmck wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 4:33 pm
AmBraCol wrote: Wed Feb 02, 2022 2:36 pm Now I'm trying to remember if I've got a 45 ACP bullet mold or not. Keep thinking I need a 45 ACP cylinder for the old Vaquero, that would keep fired brass in a more user friendly radius.
Yes, the way these flangerbangers treat cases sure does make us old revolver guys cringe. Grandsons and I were shooting two of the 1911 style pistols and both would mostly pile them off to the right but would put the occasional case a ways forward or fling one clear back over the shoulder. I think if I stood on the left side of a 10X12 tarp it would collect almost all of them :D

And if you don't find that bullet mould the ones in my picture are made with a 6-cavity Lee which fairly turns a bunch of them out in a hurry. And they seemed to shoot better than I thought I was capable of doing with these older eyeballs.

I'm glad to see that other folks have needed to sit up and pay attention when they load for the autos. I feel kinda' sheepish about my first attempts being a long ways from satisfactory. But maybe loading for the autos will make me up my game a notch and improve things for the revolvers also. The big thing that took me a while to diagnose was that scraping up enough lube on the front of the case to keep the cartridge from quite seating to the bottom of the chamber which is obviously a bad deal with a case that headspaces up there on the case mouth. With my "just barely enough flare" I must be doing the same thing with my revolver rounds. I wonder if that is part of the reason why I sometimes have to press a cartridge in the cylinder quite firmly to get it fully chambered. I believe I will give everything taking a cast bullet a bit more neck flare henceforth.
I remember when I first picked up that Norinco and started working up a load for it. Don't recall where I got the brass, it was fairly common and relatively cheap at the time. But I went through it and trimmed to length, chamfered, removed primer pocket crimps and such, then loaded it up and went to shooting. Do you know hard it is to hit where you're aiming when you're concerned about where that case was going to land? Shortly afterwards I got a membership to the local club, which included an indoor range. That made brass recovery easier and also gave me a place to work on loads. Had one WC load that made a ragged hole of about an inch and a half or so at 25 yards indoors, but that wasn't good enough, so I had a National Match bushing installed, never DID find a load it would shoot as well as it did before I "fixed" it... :roll:

That bit highlighted above - yeah, I'm gonna have to check some of my loads as well. I'd never considered the problem of lube build up as you describe it. Something else to keep an eye on.
Paul - in Pereira


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Re: Loading for 45 Auto

Post by stretch »

Lube buildup in the dies can be a problem. I have to clean
the seating and crimping dies periodically.

Jacketed bullets are easier to load in a progressive press
because there are fewer issues, I think.

No lube buildup, and the case mouth flare doesn't have to be
quite as wide. I found a 230gr.JHP loads to the same OAL as
a 230 gr.LRN, so I don't need to change die settings. I use
the same powder load as well. It's not max, so the small variation
in case volume causes no difficulties in terms of hi pressure.

Lots of little tricks and variables in what seems to be a simple
process, eh? :lol: :lol:

-Stretch
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