Reloading Cast???

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Drawdown
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Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

I've been reloading just over a year now, only for 30-30, and only with jacketed bullets. I've had very good success, its went very comparable to others reports, and load data! I love it, enjoy it as much as the shooting, it gives shooting an entire new purpose!
But one the reasons I began, its been in my hope all along to eventually reload cast, cheaper than jacketed for more summer fun shooting!

I've got a number of questions from a lotta searching, but I'm new to reloading, don't know another reloader, and sure don't know anyone who shoots cast?
1st, is Bullets. I'll never cast my own, just hope for ideas on bullets to buy, what brand, and size. I did slug my barrel, its .308, so I believe .309" would do well? Brand?

2nd, I've been using Leverevolution, 3031, and Varget with good success, and have 2lb of Accurate 4064. I was planning on trying it or 3031. Is an Expander Die all else I would need?

3rd, this is a subject I've read a lot about, but must say I'm as puzzled as ever. Lubes?? I mean, I thought lead to be self lubricating and very little wear on a bore anyway? But, will the pre-powder coated bullets serve this purpose entirely or what???

And last, why is a lower velocity always excepted?

So many questions about things I've read a lot about, but foggy on this subject, cause I don't want to waste a lotta time and money on something ill give up on anyway! But, if successful , I know I'll love it and benefit from it, and I'm itching to try!
Anyone wants to just add a little piece here and there thats fine, I don't care, I know its a Lotta questions! I don't think I'd ever hunt with them, they'd only be for longer range fun.
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JimT
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by JimT »

You might want to take a little time and read this article on the 30-30 if you have not done so ..

https://leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model94_3030.htm
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Jim, I read it. I'm between, scratching my head and backing out already, and if you like em that well and had great satisfaction with them, I'll go for it! :shock:
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Thats a great article, yours right? I've got a lot to learn!
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Shasta
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Shasta »

You do indeed have much to question. I am primarily a cast lead bullet shooter and I do cast my own. The above link by Mr. Taylor takes the jacketed bullet/cast lead bullet cleaning discussion to perfection. The difference is you can shoot jacketed bullets at much higher velocity than cast lead. But what if, like me, you are not able to take bore cleaning to that extreme? I have used Wipeout brand foaming bore cleaner with good success to remove copper fouling, but it does not remove lead fouling. The products made to remove lead fouling mostly do work on lead fouling, but not on copper fouling.

For me personally, I shoot nothing but cast in my leverguns, so copper fouling is not an issue. Any lead fouling is removed with normal cleaning followed by Kroil penetrating oil. If the lead fouling is heavy or stubborn, a bore brush wrapped with all copper Chore Boy copper wool takes it out.

OK, you don't cast, but there are plenty of commercially cast bullets available. Most of them I have seen or used were perfectly made. Cast are much cheaper and easier to find than jacketed. Your stated goal is "more summer fun shooting". What kind of shooting did you have in mind? If you are punching paper or rolling cans, you don't need much bullet weight or velocity. A light weight plain base cast lead will serve you well. I like the 115 gr. Lyman 311008 plain base at 115 gr. for an accurate ultralight bullet. The Bear Creek moly coated bullets are a very good non-gas check choice for heavier bullets. For more velocity and power, the RCBS 150 gr. gas check is good, and the 170 gr. Lyman 311041 gas check is even better. You will need a case neck expander die to load cast lead. I favor the RCBS expander die, but the Lyman M die is cheaper and does the job.

Don't even worry about lube. Remember, you are buying your cast lead bullets. They will come lubed and ready to load. If I were you, I would check out Bear Creek bullets and IMR 4198 powder.

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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by AmBraCol »

JimT wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:45 pm You might want to take a little time and read this article on the 30-30 if you have not done so ..

https://leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model94_3030.htm
You had to run 100 rounds through to get the barrel to settle down and stop walking around the target. Would giving the bore a good burnishing with bullet lube prior to shooting help the process? My thought being that if you've got the bore well lubed prior to shooting cast through it then (according to my theory) you'd be ahead of the game. Of course, I probably tend to overlube things, it's taken me a while to learn that sometimes less is more.
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JimT
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by JimT »

AmBraCol wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:35 pm You had to run 100 rounds through to get the barrel to settle down and stop walking around the target. Would giving the bore a good burnishing with bullet lube prior to shooting help the process?
I don't know, Paul. Never thought about it. I was just starting where I was with a totally (at least almost totally) clean bore. I have learned sometimes things can too clean and sometimes lubes can be too slick. My learning method is trial and error. Lots of errors and plenty of trials.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by JimT »

Drawdown wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:44 pm Thats a great article, yours right? I've got a lot to learn!
Yessir.

Cast bullets work very well in the .30-30 .... jump in and go for it ... you will learn most by doing.
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Grizz
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Grizz »

I recommend BeartoothBullets. Marshall casts the best alloy i've ever shot. they do not lead the bores, then don't deform passing through animals, they are not frangible. I don't know how you could go wrong with them.

they get faulted for being slow to ship.
the other source i like is Matts Bullets.

they may not be taking any new orders though, because of the backlogs
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Rockrat »

Check over at Castboolits.gunloads.com for a plethora of cast boolit information. I usually just shoot cast in my 30-30, a 195gr cast at around 2000fps. A powder coated slug at around .309" should work well to about that velocity. Varget, Leverevolution and 3031 should work well for higher velocities. Unique, Universal or even 2400 should work for slower velocities.
You will need to flare the case mouth a bit to prevent shaving lead/powder coating when seating slugs. For regular cast, I size to .311" and use a lyman "M" die to expand/flare the case neck.
Drawdown
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Thanks everyone for good advice and resources! My head was burnt out last night. I already have a good understanding of a lot of it, I just got to decide like Jim said and jump in and hang on. This info will give me confidence to do so.
One thing I've been considering also is just keeping my 30's as is, and getting me one of the New 94 Short Rifles in 38/55, and set up from the start for cast. A 38-55 would be a dandy hunting rifle around here, and hunting it with cast all the more worth it! I'm not at all likely to find an old one around here, wish I could, but its about an impossible! I need to venture outta here to some gun shows!
But again, thank you all for the help and time. I'm gonna do one or the other
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Just one more ? Let's say I decide to try some cast in my 30-30. Once I start flaring case mouths, do I need to keep that brass separate for use over only with cast?
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1894cfan
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by 1894cfan »

If you do stay with the 30/30, I'd suggest going over to marlinowners.com, scroll down to the reloading section, then check out the stickys, look for the Lighter bullets in 30/30 sticky. LOTS of good info there for plinking and reduced loads, be prepared, there's 32 pages of reading to go through! Another suggestion is to see if you can find a set of RCBS 30/30 cowboy dies, it's made for cast bullets, mine is in .309 dia. HTH
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Rockrat »

You do not have to segregate cases if you flare one vs no flare. Case will conform to chamber dimension once fired. You will need to crimp the case a bit to remove the flare. Make sure your cases are trimmed so you will have an even crimp. Don't overdo the crimp either.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by AmBraCol »

JimT wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:55 pm
AmBraCol wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:35 pm You had to run 100 rounds through to get the barrel to settle down and stop walking around the target. Would giving the bore a good burnishing with bullet lube prior to shooting help the process?
I don't know, Paul. Never thought about it. I was just starting where I was with a totally (at least almost totally) clean bore. I have learned sometimes things can too clean and sometimes lubes can be too slick. My learning method is trial and error. Lots of errors and plenty of trials.
Trial and error is a great teacher. When we can learn from other folks' errors we save ourselves the jolt of peeing on the fence "for the sake of science" :D I've never tried taking a barrel back to bare like you did, but have a P17 that just might end up as a cast bullet, peep sighted sporter (it's already a peep sighted sporter) and if so a thorough cleaning would be a good place to start. My thought is that if one were to burnish the bore with lube, that is swab some in there then work a tight patch back and forth to fill any pores/pits/irregularities and leave the rest of the bore nice and smooth that it MIGHT help in the settling down process. Slopping a bunch in there and then shooting wouldn't be much help, don't know if the process I'm trying to describe would or not. It's been so long since I messed with cast in a rifle that I can't even remember what's in the cache. Going to have to do some digging around to see what turns up this summer.
Paul - in Pereira


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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by JimT »

Paul ... If you want to use the Outers Foul Out I will bring it to the Holiday along with all the chemicals and rods .. the whole thing .. and you can use it as long as you wish.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Old Savage »

This has been reloaded many times ;-)
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Griff »

Rockrat wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:54 pmCheck over at Castboolits.gunloads.com for a plethora of cast boolit information.
I shoot a Lyman 150 grain gascheck design bullet out of a Saeco 316 mold. With Lyman's Alox or SPG lube, either RCBS or Hornady gaschecks and cast to a bHn of aruond 18, I don't get any leading. These are running out at 2290fps. They shoot to the same point of impact as 150 factory copper jacketed ammo.

I also shoot reduced load up to about 1400 fps without the gascheck and have no problems. Unless you know the Bhn of the bullet you buy, I'd suggest keeping to reduced loads. They shoot with just as much smiling as faster loads... use less powder, and less stress on your shoulder. Oh... did I mention less powder?
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by piller »

Once you find the load that is most accurate in your rifle, try it on milk jugs filled with water if you can. Lead bullets might not expand like jacketed hollow point, but they usually penetrate better. They do not need to be moving at high velocity to punch through a deer or a pig. Accuracy and penetration are likely to bring home the venison.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Well I sure got all the info and resources I need here! The rest is up to me to make it work, and I'm thinking now ill give the bore in my Marlin a good cleaning, kinda devote it to cast duty. After all it just about only collected dust since I got the Winchester.
When I started reloading a year ago my thought was, now I can do anything I want with these rifles. Now you can't hardly get nothing. Thank you kindly everyone!
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Grizz »

GOOD PLAN. I have a number of tools that i don't insult with copper fouling.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by AmBraCol »

Old Savage wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:53 am This has been reloaded many times ;-)
Precisely the model that inspired my thoughts...
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Old Savage, thats my kinda shooting right there!
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by marlinman93 »

To help, or maybe add more conflict to your choices, you can also buy gas checked cast bullets, which allow higher velocities than plain base cast bullets.

Here's a few a quick search brought up:

https://www.gtbullets.com/index.php?mai ... ucts_id=18

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-ch-3 ... o-box.html

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/g-ch-3 ... o-box.html
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

I'm glad to get the references mm93, all of them listed here and any others to come! I'd never had any dealings with cast before, ill note all these for the future.

I'm still waiting on the data for old savages load :D
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by piller »

Funny thing, in moderate power older type cartridges, such as .30-30, .38-55, .44-40, and a long list of other calibers, the cast bullets give great accuracy. I hope you have a lot of fun with your reloading.
I have found that best accuracy is not always at the maximum velocity in the recipe published. Your rifle might prefer something different. Finding that spot where everything comes together and accuracy suddenly gets better is sure to bring a smile to your face.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Piller it already has and keeps me smiling. O I keep say (why didn't I start this long time ago), but then I guess, better off, its all actually new. First rifle I ever bought when I went to work was a levergun, but shortly I went to everything else, especially bolt actions. I got the 336 in 1981 on a trade I couldn't pass on. But then it just about stayed in the gun cabinet. I was always a gun nut, knew quite a bit about the old Winchester and cowboy calibers, but I never gave any thought of using them.
Until 2016 when I quit work and had time. I even still had half the box of 170gr PowerPoint I got on the trade.
I don't know i just fell in love with the thought of deer hunting with it. I already loved Iron sights, and started having thoughts of reloading after I got 3 different copies of special edition Levergun magazines. I hadn't really realized that people was still shooting and hunting with them old hyphenated calibers, other than 30-30.
Most of all I found out the truth? A levergun is the ultimate off-hand open sights rifle made, and I already was hunting that way for all my life.
I almost quit the Marlin from the start because it was so critical to how you hold it. I tried resting it like a benches rifle and after reading how levers with tubes would spray shot after barrel heat. Well I learned how to overcome all that, and found out, "Hay, this rifle is more accurate than I'm capable of shooting it"!
Then I got the Winchester 64a and its as fine a hunting rifle as is made, anyway you hold it!
Then. I found out, reloading is just as fun and interesting as hunting and gives shooting a whole new meaning!
So, now, Cast Bullets. Glad now i waited all hese years!
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by fordwannabe »

I am gonna through this out there and you can call me an enabler if you want. If you want a 38-55 but the expense of an old original concerns you... find a decent Marlin or Winchester in 30-30. It can have a good bore, or a not so good bore and Call Jesse Occambauugh(sp?) at JES reboring. $250 ish later you will have a 38-55. He does fantastic work, is very easy to talk to, and has a turnaround time measured in days, not weeks or months.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Fwbe, I've never considered it myself, but I know I've only read positive comments from those who let him to do that. I will keep it in mind if I come up with another 30-30 kinda cheap. I am interested in a 38-55 for my use! Very interesting and usable caliber around here IMO!
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by fordwannabe »

I agree. I thought so enough thatI sent Jesse my post 64 model 94 to him for that conversion. I can highly recommend it.
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Re: Reloading Cast???

Post by Drawdown »

Thanks, if the right gun comes along I won't hesitate to do it!
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