Win 94 Trapper double pump to chamber round

[ghostrider]

New to lever guns, hope someone here might be able to help. I have a Winchester 94AE 357/38 Trapper. It chambers and fires 38s fine, but when I load it with 357s, I have to double pump it to get it to chamber. It looks as though on the first pump of the action, the nose of the round doesn't come up enough to enter the chamber, but hits the lower edge, then with the second pump, the round rocks back, the nose comes up and it will enter the chamber when moved forward. I haven't disassembled or done anything to it yet; wanted to get as much info as I could first.

Thanks in advance

[3leggedturtle]

WElcome to the Best Enabler's Forum. Some one should be along shortly with advice and explanation. Todd/3leg

[historicfirearms]

You didn't mention what type of 357 ammo that you are using. But leverguns can be picky about nose shape and cartridge overall length. Since your rifle feeds 38s ok, I would suspect its an ammo issue, and not a problem with your rifle.

[Griff]

and Welcome to THE best Forum on the Internet!

Your Winchester 94AE is working nearly as well as the design limitations allow. As there is substantive difference in cartridge length between the .38 Spl and .357 Mag, it's a wonder it works with the shorter cartridge. As the mdl 94, whether top eject or the new fangled AE, performs half of the cycle on the forward stroke of the lever, (opening the action and raising the carrier), it's extremely important to make sure one provides a complete stroke, pushing the lever all the way forward.

Sometimes in our haste, we don't quite get that last 1/8" of travel completed. Therefore my 1st question, does it do this at all speeds of operation? IOWs, does it do it where you work the action slowly or fast?

The lever action rifle, as with other action types, is dependent on one's technique, it's important to have that technique down pat. The mdl 94 (and mdl 94AE), is a "rifle" cartridge length action, and has shown to be problematic with shorter "pistol" length cartridges. And those models that can chamber a "Special" and "Magnum." maybe more so that others, like the 45 Colt. As "Historicfirearms" said, nose length and shape are important when feeding thru a mdl 94. Think of it as simply a manual semi-auto. Rounded ogives with flat noses work best, semi-wadcutters sometimes, and wadcutters hardly at all. (I've learned to never say never in regards to bullet shape)! But in my experience, wadcutters just won't feed without some sort of custom ramping!

Is the rifle new? If used, it could have suffered a little wear on the front of the carrier that contacts the bolt and affects the amount of lift given. But, generally, that will affect either length cartridge. There could also be a slightly tighter portion between the cartridge guides near the nose of the .357 that is keeping the bullet from coming into alignment with the chamber, and a more forceful stroke on the 2nd attempt overcomes the constriction. So... tighten the cartridge guides is a fair 1st step. If you have a dial caliper, a few measurements taken along the guides will tell you if this is the problem.

Another area to check, is the length and shape of the slot in the cartridge guides for the rim to come up so the cartridge is in full alignment with the chamber. I avoid the pistol length mdl 94s, having only owned one, a mdl 94 from 1969 in 44Mag. It was stolen about 1974, and never replaced. I've found the .30-30 to be a nearly perfect cartridge in this action, and meets my needs. But, do appreciate others that enjoy plinking with the shorter, (and cheaper) cartridges.

Let us know what you find. Maybe JMiller will be along today and provide some more help, as I feel he's more knowledgeable about the shorter cartridge rifles that I.

[J Miller]

My experiences with handgun length cartridge lever guns is limited.

> My Marlin 1894S fed jacketed .357 and 38 Spcl ammo perfectly. It also fed ammo with cast bullets using round or tapered bullet profiles without issue. However if you had a round loaded with a SWC in your pocket, the Marlin would jam.
> My early 90's Marlin 1894 .45 Colt carbine wouldn't feed SWC's either yet it's chamber was so oversized when the firing pin hit the primer it would push the entire cartridge into the chamber, rim and all ... piece of junque.
> My Rossi 92 copy in .45 Colt would not feed anything, not even factory ammo, I had to send it back to get it fixed. Cost me more than I paid for it coz Rossi wouldn't cover it. Would have made a good tomato stake, maybe.
> My 2005 vintage Marlin 1894 Cowboy .45 Colt feeds everything up to about 1.70"COAL, no matter what the bullet style.
> My 1985 vintage Winchester 94 AE .45 Colt is omnivorous, it will eat anything I can feed into the magazine up to a max of 1.75" COAL.

The last two are dependent on one thing, that I do not short stroke the lever. Doing that will ensure a jam.

Win 94s are made for longer cartridges, true. But they changed the geometry of the action enough to function well with the larger handgun cartridges such as the .44 Mag and .45 Colt. However although the .357 mag is the same length it's considerably smaller in diameter. Somehow they usually function well. Several members here have or had them, I just cant remember who.

Three things I can suggest:
>> Make sure it's clean inside and free from old lube and or packing grease.
>> Check the cartridge guides and make sure they are installed correctly and tight. The lower end of the guide slot should be to the rear, and the guide with the beveled edge goes on the right side, beveled edge up.
>> Work the lever in one firm stroke down and back. Don't stop in the middle of the stroke, don't jiggle it or wiggle it as you move it down and back up, as this can cause feeding issues or jams.
The Win 94 AE's should feed 38s and 357s the same, however without having having the rifle in my hand it's really hard to diagnose the problem.