Range Day with the 480 Achilles
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Range Day with the 480 Achilles
I took the 480 Achilles to the range today. I wanted to try some of John Killebrew's new bullet in it.
LEFT is the original Bittner Bullet ..... RIGHT is the Killebrew Bullet
I did not use a pistol rest ... should have as I am sure the groups would be better. I shot these targets while sitting at a table, resting my left elbow on the table.
I believe I am gonna have to take this bullet hunting!
LEFT is the original Bittner Bullet ..... RIGHT is the Killebrew Bullet
I did not use a pistol rest ... should have as I am sure the groups would be better. I shot these targets while sitting at a table, resting my left elbow on the table.
I believe I am gonna have to take this bullet hunting!
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- GunnyMack
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Not a thing wrong with that Jim ! I do believe that setup is ready to make meat !
BROWN LABS MATTER !!
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Oh! Those are good groups Jim. Those 2 little grease grooves wouldn't hold enough for black powder.
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
'the Black Powder bullet is this one by Huffaker ..M. M. Wright wrote: ↑Wed Apr 08, 2020 4:44 pm Oh! Those are good groups Jim. Those 2 little grease grooves wouldn't hold enough for black powder.
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Always love hearing about this cartridge and project. Just plain fun!
Eric
Eric
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Now that's a black powder bullet!
M. M. Wright, Sheriff, Green county Arkansas (1860)
Currently living my eternal life.
NRA Life
SASS
ITSASS
Currently living my eternal life.
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Pretty decent groups. Certainly good enough for hunting.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
+1
Ready for the jackalopes Jim.
Psalm ch8.
Because I wish I could!
Because I wish I could!
- fordwannabe
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Hey Mister! You don’t want that old thing. Heck ya can’t even get bullets for it anymore. You seem like a nice guy sooo tell ya what I’m gonna do for ya. Just cause I like ya I will let you swindle me out of lightly used Glock in 9mm for that old thing you’re shooting. EVERYBODY KNOWS ya gotta have a semi-auto not them old cowboy guns, AND EVERYBODY KNOWS ya GOTTA have a Glock. So send me that old thing and I will HELP YOU OUT. BUDDY!
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
That's what I like about this place. Everyone is so kind and generous, watching out for old fanny burbs like myself who need help.fordwannabe wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:55 am Hey Mister! You don’t want that old thing. Heck ya can’t even get bullets for it anymore. You seem like a nice guy sooo tell ya what I’m gonna do for ya. Just cause I like ya I will let you swindle me out of lightly used Glock in 9mm for that old thing you’re shooting. EVERYBODY KNOWS ya gotta have a semi-auto not them old cowboy guns, AND EVERYBODY KNOWS ya GOTTA have a Glock. So send me that old thing and I will HELP YOU OUT. BUDDY!
I will pack it up and send it right away.
As soon as I get the check for $11,000.95 to cover shipping, handling and whatnot.
Thank you!
I really appreciate it.
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- fordwannabe
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Haha! Glad you took it as intended. I really like watching this project play out. Thanks for the updates.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Good thing those Jackalopes are still in hibernation. Mean critters. Why, they ran all the Grizzly bears and Sabre Tooth Tigers completely out of Texas. Hunting Jackalopes is best left to the professionals and those like Jim with the skills to not try to run away when one attacks. It has been suggested to use nothing less than a 300 grain bullet on them if you do not want a wounded one chewing your leg off.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Have you thought about a large frame Colt or S&W double action frame to put this in?
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
250 Savage... its what the 223 wishes it could be...!
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
No. But I am sure it would work just fine.3leggedturtle wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 5:31 pm Have you thought about a large frame Colt or S&W double action frame to put this in?
- Old Savage
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
JimT, did this cartridge have an actual purpose that was not more commonly available or was it just a lark?
- AJMD429
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Man those holes are BIG...!
https://www.leverguns.com/480/480_achilles.htm
An article on the cartridge on the LASC website...
Los Angeles Silhouette Club - 480 Achilles
....guess who the FAMOUS author is....
Jim's original post on the history...Old Savage wrote: ↑Thu Apr 09, 2020 7:09 pmJimT, did this cartridge have an actual purpose that was not more commonly available or was it just a lark?
https://www.leverguns.com/480/480_achilles.htm
An article on the cartridge on the LASC website...
Los Angeles Silhouette Club - 480 Achilles
....guess who the FAMOUS author is....
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Agreed!
What a great gun!
- Old Savage
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
So AJ, into the red wine now, is there a capsulised yes or no to this without the research?
- Old Savage
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Without reading it, was there s purpose to achieve?
- AJMD429
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
.... I think it was "just for the heck of it..."
To quote from the original write-up on leverguns:
"The .45 Colt at the case mouth measures .480". Would it be possible to come up with a heeled bullet of .475" to fit into a .45 Colt case for use in a sixgun fitted with a .475" barrel and a bored-through cylinder? (The cylinder would have no chamber "step") If so, a sixgun of Colt SAA dimensions could be used as a base gun since the SAA is already available in the .45 Colt case.
.
.
.
First and foremost, there exists no need for this caliber. Other than being unique it is totally without merit. Thus our motto:
Undaunted by common sense
Second, the idea was (in my mind at least) to create a modern version of the 476 Eley. A heavy big-bore bullet at low velocity.
Third, we wanted to do this in a way that was as simple as possible."
To quote from the original write-up on leverguns:
"The .45 Colt at the case mouth measures .480". Would it be possible to come up with a heeled bullet of .475" to fit into a .45 Colt case for use in a sixgun fitted with a .475" barrel and a bored-through cylinder? (The cylinder would have no chamber "step") If so, a sixgun of Colt SAA dimensions could be used as a base gun since the SAA is already available in the .45 Colt case.
.
.
.
First and foremost, there exists no need for this caliber. Other than being unique it is totally without merit. Thus our motto:
Undaunted by common sense
Second, the idea was (in my mind at least) to create a modern version of the 476 Eley. A heavy big-bore bullet at low velocity.
Third, we wanted to do this in a way that was as simple as possible."
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Darn it, Jim, you know how the Achilles project appeals to the weak and senseless minds here, especially mine!
Wonder if there is a smith out there who might build a few of us some of these fine sixguns at a rate affordable to near-indigent gun cranks.
I'd love such an outstanding excuse to send $20 to Bryan Pettet or Paul Moreland ...
Wonder if there is a smith out there who might build a few of us some of these fine sixguns at a rate affordable to near-indigent gun cranks.
I'd love such an outstanding excuse to send $20 to Bryan Pettet or Paul Moreland ...
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Gary Reeder has the chambering reamers. And the barrels.Bill in Oregon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:18 am Darn it, Jim, you know how the Achilles project appeals to the weak and senseless minds here, especially mine!
Wonder if there is a smith out there who might build a few of us some of these fine sixguns at a rate affordable to near-indigent gun cranks.
I'd love such an outstanding excuse to send $20 to Bryan Pettet or Paul Moreland ...
You would have to ask him the cost as mine was done quite a few years ago.
I don't have contact info for Bryan anymore. But you know how to get in touch with Paul!
I like the Killebrew Bullet. It shows real accuracy potential. My next test will push it around 1000 fps. That's a top-end load. I want to see how it does. Somewhere in the not to distant future I need to whack a deer and a hog with it.
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Hmmmm. Ruger New Model Vaquero? Should work with the 480 Achilles, yes?
It is shorter than the Ruger cartridge, but would a Lee crimp die for the .480 Ruger work? The diameter might not be right. Just wondering, or maybe my mind is wandering. It sounds fun, and no there is no need for anything like it in my limited experience. I have a .480 Ruger, and can pop the 325 to 410 grain bullets out of it at modest velocity with plenty of accuracy. Need stopped being a factor in the equation a long time ago. Fun is more reason for anything new currently.
It is shorter than the Ruger cartridge, but would a Lee crimp die for the .480 Ruger work? The diameter might not be right. Just wondering, or maybe my mind is wandering. It sounds fun, and no there is no need for anything like it in my limited experience. I have a .480 Ruger, and can pop the 325 to 410 grain bullets out of it at modest velocity with plenty of accuracy. Need stopped being a factor in the equation a long time ago. Fun is more reason for anything new currently.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
If the Lee die is a "collet" type die, it might work. Probably not since we are talking about a cartridge based on the .45 Colt.
Since the bullet is the same diameter as the cartridge, a standard "crimp" type die will not work. The Achilles needs a crimp die that comes in from the sides. The old ones looked sort of like a pair of pliers.
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
I think that shooting this resolver was about the most fun I've ever had with a sixgun. About the time I've put it out of my mind someone goes and posts something, reminding me it's not out of my mind but rather placed carelessly in the back recesses gathering dust. Funny how the Undaunted By Common Sense project resonated with so many of us, and still does over the years. How much does the Killebrew bullet weigh?
Paul - in Pereira
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Thanks for the info. Now I see what the project is about
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Get hold of Lee and they will make you a custom COLLET 'factory crimp' die for under $50.JimT wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:31 amIf the Lee die is a "collet" type die, it might work. Probably not since we are talking about a cartridge based on the .45 Colt.
Since the bullet is the same diameter as the cartridge, a standard "crimp" type die will not work. The Achilles needs a crimp die that comes in from the sides. The old ones looked sort of like a pair of pliers.
The 'pistol' Factory Crimp dies are different, so you need their 'rifle' type Factory Crimp dies, that are a sectioned COLLET versus a floating carbide ring.
From a previous Leverguns Post - https://levergunscommunity.org/viewtopi ... 88#p513019 - note that RanchDog may no longer distribute them, but I had put in a plug for him. He got them to do a big run of 'rifle' type FCD's for 357 Mag, 44 Mag, and 45 Colt.
They will crimp 'below' the bullet like you need, and do it well.
The "real" FCD (see below) is one I'm fond of, and it is offered by LeePrecision.com in most "rifle" cartridges.
The "fake" FCD (see below) they sell for "pistol" cartridges doesn't have the septated fingers that are squeezed by the die, instead having a 'floating' carbide ring that certainly crimps the case, but more akin to a regular 'roll' crimp. Personally, I don't care for them.
Lee WILL make you a "real" FCD for about any cartridge for $30 - http://leeprecision.com/xcart/Custom-Services.html.
I'd been going to get around to having ones made for .45 Colt and .357 Mag for awhile, and had figured out how to use a .44-40 (Lee considers that a "rifle" cartridge) FCD die for .44 Mag.
RanchDog Molds now has some "real" ('Rifle' type) Lee FCD's for those calibers - AND .41 Mag, and .308 Marlin Express, & .338 Marlin Express, actually. Evidently he was smart enough to get around to it faster than me, and ordered a bunch (he's selling them for only $20 apiece, and hopefully making at least a bit of profit on them).
http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/index.p ... Path=53_54
"Rifle" type FCD - - "Pistol" type FCD -
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
By the time I got around to ordering my mould the mountain molds guy would not do it. He adamantly refused to do any more narrow, shallow grease grooves.
The accurate molds guy designed me a mold similar to the bitter's design.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail. ... 290H-D.png
The latest killabrew design seems to be an improvement on mine.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail. ... 290I-D.png
As for the crimp die, I bought a 45-70 f.c.d. as per the article but the belt mountain guy who was to modify it never returned my email(s).
The accurate molds guy designed me a mold similar to the bitter's design.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail. ... 290H-D.png
The latest killabrew design seems to be an improvement on mine.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail. ... 290I-D.png
As for the crimp die, I bought a 45-70 f.c.d. as per the article but the belt mountain guy who was to modify it never returned my email(s).
m.A.g.a. !
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
That's because the leverguns article is 16 years old and his email address is now
beltmtn@montana.com
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Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
Ray, I am really liking that 290I from Tom at Accurate.
Jim, Jim, amigo, why did you have to post range day results?
Jim, Jim, amigo, why did you have to post range day results?
Re: Range Day with the 480 Achilles
That's some nice shooting. Wish I could shoot handguns that well.