Hunting in decline ?

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gamekeeper
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Hunting in decline ?

Post by gamekeeper »

This was in "The Times".
Sad if it's true, maybe time to introduce some youngsters to hunting.

Quote from the Times.
Hunting is in long-term decline across the United States because of a shift in recreation habits and in societal attitudes to killing animals — and the country’s wildlife is suffering as a result.

Since the 1930s conservation has been substantially funded by hunting, via receipts from hunting licences and taxes on sales of firearms and ammunition. Sales of hunting licences fell from a peak of about 17 million in the early 1980s to 15 million last year, according to the US Fish and Wildlife Service. The same agency reported in 2018 that only about 5 per cent of Americans aged 16 or older hunt, about half as many as 50 years ago.
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Ray
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by Ray »

The instinctive desire to chase and stalk and kill is there but the opportunities are quite expensive.....

Many govt./public lands are overcrowded during modern firearms deer hunting seasons.....you know, orange behind (and in front of and up) every other tree.....

The days when you could knock on a landowner's door and ask to hunt are long gone.....

In my neck of the woods membership in a mediocre deer hunting lease starts at about $1500 per year.....

In my state's deer management effort, the number one problem is said to be lack of harvest - hence overpopulation. The farmers associations and the automobile insurance companies lobby aggressively for more deer slain. The hunters clamour for greater bag limits....The state's response is onerous tags and unintelligible points per side restrictions and vague zoning maps and illucid split-season dates......

Then there is the dreaded C.W.D. infirmity.....None here in my state as yet but confirmed cases all around......

But fowling seems to be alive and well internationally.....It is said that more shotgun shells are sold in just italy and spain than in the whole rest of the world.
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GunnyMack
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by GunnyMack »

Few years ago we had 2 bad winters back to back. Very high snow banks along the rural roads added to the deer death tolls. I know my local herd suffered greatly! It was very sad seeing dead deer everywhere. Then we had the ' blue tongue ' disease the following spring/ summer, it killed untold more deer. Our deer numbers are still down. On the other hand our very liberal bag limits of shoot 2 at a time all season long ( Sept- Feb) doesnt help. Nor does the fact that we have a lot of coyotes!! Its true, big game hunting has dropped around here.
We have no ruffed grouse, no one cuts timber in big enough lots to produce the needed habitat - the state closed the grouse season. No wild pheasant , again fox, coyotes and high raptor populations decimate any birds.
It is sad that our hunting heritage has been stifled by the school systems, bad science and ignorance!

This season has been a boon for deer, the weather kept a lot of people out of the woods, seems we has rain almost every weekend when most people have the time to hunt. I know I had very few days that I went out.
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Nath
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by Nath »

It is in decline in my opinion by the subtle political comments and mind bending by media, veggies and vegans.
Idylls and fantasy have overtaken reality, heck even reality is no longer reality! Reality has also now become a fabrication often tinged with a hidden agenda!
The blind are definitely leading the blind.
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Saw that same article, GK. Hunters and anglers have been carrying the conservation freight in this country for close to 100 years, and as our numbers decline, the results are predictable. Some states are learning that raising hunting and fishing license and tag fees in return for degraded opportunities afield is not a successful economic model. I would support an 11 percent excise tax on tofu, soy products, veggie burgers and almond milk. 8)
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6pt-sika
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by 6pt-sika »

I'm sure there are game population declines and increases in different areas . But the places I've hunted for the last thirty years "seem to be" maintaining as my yearly take remains an almost constant . Granted some years I might get a few more and a couple years I got a few less , but all in all it's remained pretty constant . Do I practice trophy management absolutely not , I shoots uhm as I see's uhm . Nothing wrong with "trophy management" if that's a persons thing it just isn't mine .

As to getting the younger crowd or new hunters out , my intrest in that is nothing more than taking my wife out if she's so inclined once she arrives here and taking my grandson out if he's so inclined . Nothing against other people , but I have x amount of acres and if I'm going to let someone else shoot the deer on my property I'd just as soon it was my wife or grandson .
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by Thunder50 »

I pretty well quit hunting here in Colorado. It seemed to me that alot of tags went to out of state hunters ($$$$ fees) and landowner tags instead of the state paying cash for crop damage, they just gave out more tags that the landowners could sell. I know that at our sight in days at the range, for out of state people, I have seen the same group 5 years in a row , hunting the same area that I couldn't draw a tag in. The group did though. If I can't draw but every 5-6 years for a cow elk tag (don't care for a bull tag) why bother.

If people around here don't hunt as much, DOW can just look in the mirror as to whose fault it is.
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Done

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Done
Last edited by COSteve on Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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octagon
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by octagon »

My son, barely 18, killed 2 wild pigs (A double) at a low water crossing last weekend, and even better, snuck up on 9 pigs within 50 feet, but they dissapearred in the thick brush. Also liquidated a skunk free handed at 100 yards at night. We got 9 pigs altogether one being a red boar about 400lbs. Lots of young hunters in Texas, mostly among the "rural" crowd. We saw 2-300 turkeys, 150 or so deer, 50 or so pigs, and one axis doe.
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DocRock
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by DocRock »

Hunting has been on the decline for decades due to urbanization, sissification, lifestyle changes, etc. However, the North American model of conservation is largely funded by Pittman-Robertson excise taxes (imposed on firearms, ammunition, archery gear - and a simnilar excise tax on fishing gear), not just hunting licenses. So, while hunting is down, conservation revenues are not as hard hit as one might expect because the decline in hunting has not correlated with a decline in firearms purchases and shooting. Indeed, one of the issues therein is that the Pittman-Robertson revenues are spent by wildlife conservation focused organizations and rarely does one find such an organization giving due consideration to spending some of that revenue on ranges and the shooting sports, the expenditure of which would help generate further revenues. Furthermore, while hunting license sales are down, these lost revenues have been partially recouped by the sale of "wildlife" tags, essentially user fees for viewing/enjoying the benefits of conservation, a measure that I certainly support.

So, while there has been a decline in hunting, its revenue impact is not as precipitous as commentators, many of whom like to exploit that data point to promote further restrictions on RKBA, would have us believe.
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by .45colt »

Doc Rock wrote "Hunting has been on the decline for decades due to urbanization, sissification, lifestyle changes, I agree 100% . but from what I have seen in My life time I think nothing has had the effect that the decline in trapping and fox , coon , and coyote hunting in the U.S. that the friends of animals and peta brought about by the anti fur propaganda.
60 years ago there were cottontail rabbits , ring neck pheasants , and ruffed grouse every where near where I live . now there are hardly any. some due to changes in farming but more due to all of the predators that feast on small game.
And if You need to start a kid hunting there is nothing more exciting than getting that first rabbit , or a cock pheasant on a cold winter day . Old Geezer Out.
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by barbarossa »

Yup we are going the way of the Neanderthals but as one Neanderthal to another I am proud to have belonged to the brotherhood .
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by AJMD429 »

MUCH of it is OUR fault.....how often do we go that extra mile to get the kids and grandkids, or the kids from our church, to go out and hunt, shoot, or fish with us....? How often do we ENGAGE them with dialogue about politics, gun control, and morality, instead of just seeing them texting on their cellphones, shaking our head, and going home to watch NRA TV shows by ourselves...?

It is just like 'gun control' - we tend to romanticize about how we'd stand our ground when they 'come for our guns', and how we'd take leadership roles in some post-apocalyptic society, but the REAL heroism is taking time to write letters to editors, speak on committees, and testify at legislative hearings, or even just share sold academic 'pro-gun' information with politicians who are trying to defend their pro-gun positions, but know far less about gun control than we do. Even just donating the money we would have spent buying that new Leopold Scope to the GOA, ILA, or NRA, and settling for a Tasco.

We get the government we deserve, and those who inherit our nation will be the product of how WE raised them.

Sadly, most parents I see just leave their kids to the television when they are toddlers and grade-schoolers, hand them a smartphone when they are in junior high, and wonder why they are clueless, useless, and pregnant by the time the finish high school... :|
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BenT
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by BenT »

I have always had my land open to young hunters. Right now my wifes coworker husband and son were hunting public land with out much luck. I invited them to hunt my land and the boy hunted everyday and shot a 4 point buck and doe. Very excited for him.

As far as hunting my daughter had this same problem when going through Hunter Safety course. She was bored because all they talked about was deer hunting. Which she had no interest in. She wanted to turkey and grouse hunt. There is plenty of hunting to be had other than deer hunting. Plenty of predetors to hunt and most private land owners will let you.
I find turkey hunting the most exciting hunting. As far as deer hunting on private land. May I suggest adopting a farmer. Plenty of work to be done on a farm. If you volunteer your time to helping a farmer I can guarantee you will have a place to deer hunt.

But there is a lot more activities available to young people today that is the main issue.
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by Jay Bird »

.45colt wrote: Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:28 pm Doc Rock wrote "Hunting has been on the decline for decades due to urbanization, sissification, lifestyle changes, I agree 100% . but from what I have seen in My life time I think nothing has had the effect that the decline in trapping and fox , coon , and coyote hunting in the U.S. that the friends of animals and peta brought about by the anti fur propaganda.
60 years ago there were cottontail rabbits , ring neck pheasants , and ruffed grouse every where near where I live . now there are hardly any. some due to changes in farming but more due to all of the predators that feast on small game.
And if You need to start a kid hunting there is nothing more exciting than getting that first rabbit , or a cock pheasant on a cold winter day . Old Geezer Out.

Pretty much the same here in Pa......in the sixties we didn't see foxes..there was a bounty on them...pheasants and rabbits were everywhere...they are gone and that leaves squirrels and turkeys...OK, but it's not the same...most people don't like squirrels and turkeys are just not widespread.

Deer used to be upstate in the mountains where there was plenty to eat from the logging operations during the previous decades....now the deer are in suburbia where you have to use a shotgun or bow and arrow.. My inlaws, who are custom butchers had their best year ever with deer..they are everywhere and so are the foxes.

The WW2 vets are gone and their cabins are empty from upstate. Changing times. I stopped hunting deer as it was like shooting a pet..the sport was gone.

But one thing for SURE....SHOOTING AND GUN OWNERSHIP is UP from when I was a kid. We have competitive shooting every weekend in one form or another at our club in Atglen, Pa.
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by OldWin »

I don't know. Remember, all the articles tell you everyone hates guns too. Propaganda is a powerful tool.
All I know is, compared to when I was a kid in the 70s, there are WAY more kids, and especially women hunting, and hunting more varieties of game than there was then.
The availability of firearms alone is several times what it was then. Look at the products sold to aid the hunter now. None of that stuff was around back then. If this stuff wasn't being bought by someone, it wouldn't be selling. It's not just old men watching all the hunting shows on TV that weren't on 30 years ago.
The savior of the sport will be women. The women I know who hunt are way more dedicated and serious about it than the men. They will also defend it like a pit bull. We all know how women are when they get their back up about something. :D
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by DocRock »

OldWin wrote: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:53 am I don't know. Remember, all the articles tell you everyone hates guns too. Propaganda is a powerful tool.
All I know is, compared to when I was a kid in the 70s, there are WAY more kids, and especially women hunting, and hunting more varieties of game than there was then.
The availability of firearms alone is several times what it was then. Look at the products sold to aid the hunter now. None of that stuff was around back then. If this stuff wasn't being bought by someone, it wouldn't be selling. It's not just old men watching all the hunting shows on TV that weren't on 30 years ago.
The savior of the sport will be women. The women I know who hunt are way more dedicated and serious about it than the men. They will also defend it like a pit bull. We all know how women are when they get their back up about something. :D
But the number of hunting licenses sold is, for example, a factual number collated by the state wildlife organizations. Remembe, the decline under discussion is as a percentage of the population, not necessarily total tags sold.
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Re: Hunting in decline ?

Post by guntar »

Here in SC, hunting is definitely declining, while shooting is getting ever more popular. The problem here is having a place to hunt coupled with a precipitous drop in small game numbers, You can walk many miles in this state and never even hear a quail call, let alone see one. The situation with rabbits is almost as bad. The only hunting that we have in abundance is deer and turkeys, which require relatively large tracts of land. Most of the shorelines of our lakes, rivers, and creeks have been developed for housing. This has had the effect of greatly diminishing the waterfowl hunting opportunities. In many areas we are overrun by non-migrating Canada geese that never have a shot fired at them their whole life. The net effect of this is that the price of being able to hunt has spiraled upwards far enough that many people can no longer afford to hunt. In many cases, even if you have the money, you can't find a hunting lease within a reasonable distance from your home.

Another factor that I believe has discouraged many people from hunting is the uncertainty of opportunity and the complexity of the regulations in place now. When many of us started hunting there were few, if any, lottery drawings for tags or areas. We bought our license, a federal duck stamp, a gun, a knife, and some ammunition and went hunting. Imagine how intimidating all the drawings, federal tags, state tags, species tags, management zones, and special regulations are to beginning hunters. A lot of those things confuse me and I have been doing this sort of thing for well over 50 years.

I have lived in many different states (by-product of being in the construction business) and these conditions were common in most of them. Basically, we have too many people and not enough land.

I do think there are things we can do to help the situation:
1) Actively help young (or older) people get involved in the sport. Help them with the cost, complexity, and intimidation factors. Most of us have guns, equipment, clothing, and other gear we don't use anymore. Look for somebody to help and offer.
2) Lobby for other "users" of the outdoors to have to pay their fair share of enhancing our habitats (hikers, trail bike riders, mountain bikers, campers, wildlife watchers and photographers, kayakers and canoeists, white-water rafters, etc, etc) pay the same type of excise taxes on their equipment that hunters pay. Make sure it gets used for conservation purposes.
3) Curtail invasive species populations wherever possible (this would include wild hogs, feral dogs and cats, as well as high-profile species like Burmese pythons).
4) Reduce predator populations as much as possible. Coyotes are probably the worst in this arena. If there is a more efficient predator, I haven't seen it. You may discover that hunting coyotes makes deer hunting look like child's play.
This one will produce howls of indignation, probably from many on this site:
6) Reduce raptor populations in most areas. Most areas have hawks, owls, etc sitting on every fence-thing and dead tree. The days of plummeting raptor populations due to DDT and other poisons are long gone. Their "sacred" status is no longer needed.
7) Manage your hunting leases for more than just deer. Do something for the small-game as well. Let the kids get started on birds, rabbits, squirrels, waterfowl, etc and you will have new and better hunters. You will also see that they bring enthusiasm and energy that has long been missing in our sport. Boundless energy is a great thing to have when managing a lease or a range.
8) Teach less-experienced people what you know. We bemoan the fact that the younger hunters don't have an appreciation for "blued-steel and walnut" and fine firearms all 6the time. How would they ever discover them unless we teach them. A fine lever action rifle has to be experienced to be appreciated. Words fail. The same can be said for a fine double. Are we sharing?

I know this has been a long post and I have gotten a little preachy. Sorry about that. It has just been a rule in my life to try to leave things a little better than I found them. I am not sure my generation has done that when it comes to hunting and shooting.
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