Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

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Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by AJMD429 »

Did you guys see how the recent attempted 'mass shooter' at the West Freeway Church in Texas wound up having at least five churchgoers draw down on him and lethally shoot him within six seconds... :mrgreen:

Of course CNN makes it out like the only reason the murderer was stopped was that a "former reserve deputy" was there as part of a "security detail", so it is all ok and official and all that.... :roll: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas ... index.html
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by wm »

I don't want to sound alarmist but beware copycats. Like the school shooting phenomenon, I'm afraid the church shooting is going to become something to be worried about.

I'm a member of my church's security team. I wish I could motivate the others on the team to take some training. I wish at age 52 I was not the youngest on the team. Above all I wish they did not need a security team.

Wm
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Blaine »

A +-Fifty foot snap shot to the head. :o With others close to the line of sight? I'm glad he was highly trained. I'm not embarrassed to admit that 10-20 feet would have been my limit with my .380 EDC.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by JimT »

Video of the shooting
https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/texas-chu ... es-2-dead/
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Blaine »

JimT wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:35 pm
Video of the shooting
https://nypost.com/2019/12/29/texas-chu ... es-2-dead/
One reason I don't carry a little bitty gun when I'm out.
It does prompt me to rethink my everyday habits.....Still, like Eastwood said...a Man gots to know his limitations.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Beaker »

AMEN!!!
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by JimT »

wm wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:07 pm
I don't want to sound alarmist but beware copycats. Like the school shooting phenomenon, I'm afraid the church shooting is going to become something to be worried about.

I'm a member of my church's security team. I wish I could motivate the others on the team to take some training. I wish at age 52 I was not the youngest on the team. Above all I wish they did not need a security team.

Wm
Have them watch the video of the shooting ... how fast it went down .. what everyone did and did not do. Watch it about 20 times. It's amazing what you see. While some reacted instantly some sat through the entire deal and after it was over started looking around like "what's going on?" ... the poor security guy drawing while under the muzzle of the shotgun .. he kept trying though it was hopeless. Prayers for his family.

If they really watch it and see maybe it will motivate them ....
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by FWiedner »

The shooter shot two men before he was killed, one of them died while he was drawing his firearm.

If you're going to carry, learn to draw. Speed counts.

Marksmanship is key. That head shot in a room full of people was no accident.

If you're part of a response team, practice. Put one guy in charge to give orders and have a response plan.

:idea:
Last edited by FWiedner on Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by .45colt »

" AMEN".......................!!!!
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Jay Bird »

Inaction and slow thinking got both of the good guys killed........the one GG closest to the gunman just stood there after BG pulled out the gun and shot the GG who was furthest away, then the BG while backing up shot the other GG.

AS SOON AS THE BG PULLED OUT THE GUN THE GG CLOSEST SHOULD HAVE JUMPED HIM PHYSICALLY. He was only a few feet away. The other GG took like 10 seconds to draw his weapon when he should have moved and made himself a harder target.

The GG who did the killing made a lucky shot to the head. There is not too many people who can draw and make a headshot from that distance in a split second...plus, it's a hit or miss with a headshot at that distance. The smart thing would be an upper torso shot which is most likely what the GG was attempting.

It's easy to analyze a shooting sitting here in my living room....but lack of common sense is what got the two GG's killed....had the man closest to the BG jumped him, it all could have been prevented.----6
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by daisygordoninc »

I am a pastor of a Church and we do have a security team. Yes I wished they all had more training but that
will have to be a goal for the future. Some are ex-military, some are just guys that have shot a lot. They
have had a couple of times when they had to take large knives and once a sword under a overcoat. I feel
much better with them than without. We have the entire place on security cameras and someone who
watches an ipad with all cameras. Since we have security cameras we have not had a robbery. Lots of
crazy people in our culture.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by AJMD429 »

Another short article on it: https://bongino.com/heroic-texas-parish ... ack-began/

More on the recent law change there: https://bongino.com/concealed-carry-law ... -recently/
wm wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:07 pm
I don't want to sound alarmist but beware copycats. Like the school shooting phenomenon, I'm afraid the church shooting is going to become something to be worried about.

I'm a member of my church's security team. I wish I could motivate the others on the team to take some training. I wish at age 52 I was not the youngest on the team. Above all I wish they did not need a security team.
Yep to all of the above. SO MUCH of our nation's safety, security, and stability depends on GETTING YOUNG PEOPLE INVOLVED.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by JimT »

Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:01 pm
....had the man closest to the BG jumped him, it all could have been prevented.----6
True.
Problem: A close friend who teaches classes for the County PD asks each class "How many of you have ever been in a fist fight?" He told me that percentages are very very low. Classes with 25 people often only have 3 or 4 who have ever been in a fight.
It's just not PC.
Most of our population have had that educated out of them.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Booger Bill »

I read that the man that killed the shooter is retired FBI. He had training. I don`t know why we are having these shootings that we didn't have near as many forty years ago.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by JimT »

Booger Bill wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:07 pm
I read that the man that killed the shooter is retired FBI. He had training. I don`t know why we are having these shootings that we didn't have near as many forty years ago.
That was said in some news reports but it was in error. He is a Firearms Instructor .. he has been a Reserve Deputy .. was in the National Guard and has a business that does stuff with the DOD.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by wm »

JimT wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pm
Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:01 pm
....had the man closest to the BG jumped him, it all could have been prevented.----6
True.
Problem: A close friend who teaches classes for the County PD asks each class "How many of you have ever been in a fist fight?" He told me that percentages are very very low. Classes with 25 people often only have 3 or 4 who have ever been in a fight.
It's just not PC.
Most of our population have had that educated out of them.
Goes back to the sheepdog analogy …… most people are sheep. And I don't mean that in a pejorative manner. People do not practice violence, harshness, brutish behavior. They go decades at a time without it. We think flipping someone off on the highway is pretty extreme. To expect them to go to a deadly level of violent action on a moments notice isn't reasonable. It just isn't the instinctive thing to do in modern society. They maybe can be violent if they think about it and weigh the options. It is only a handful of people that can become violent enough, quick enough to effectively engage the bad guy who has initiated violence at his or her convenience.

I'm not sure I am that guy. I hope I can just go on wondering.

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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Jay Bird »

I believe every human being has the capacity to kill or seriously hurt someone with their own fists, feet, knees, whatever........it's natural, especially when that person is threatened with great bodily harm....adrenaline alone will give you great strength and you don't need extreme training

How many women would just stand there and let some stranger take a child the mother was holding?

The former FBI agent who killed the guy said on TV tonight that the bad guy was a threat the instant he walked in the church. Eyes were on him....tension was in the air.....common sense says, "watch this dude"....the black guy standing next to the bad guy had a front row seat so to speak and should have used common sense and jumped him....the black dude looked healthy and big enough to handle a threat and as soon as that gun came out from under his coat he should have nailed him right there with a few common sense physical moves......but instead stood there letting the bad guy kill his friend and then him.

What a waste of human life. May the Good Lord bless the ones who did have the balls to stand their ground and pull weapons.---6
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Blaine »

JimT wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:06 pm
Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:01 pm
....had the man closest to the BG jumped him, it all could have been prevented.----6
True.
Problem: A close friend who teaches classes for the County PD asks each class "How many of you have ever been in a fist fight?" He told me that percentages are very very low. Classes with 25 people often only have 3 or 4 who have ever been in a fight.
It's just not PC.
Most of our population have had that educated out of them.
I'm pretty sure Six didn't mean to square off according to the Queensbury Rules...
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by piller »

Situational awareness. I usually have a cup of coffee in hand at the beginning of the service. Cowboy Church of Ellis County. Attack me or someone near me any you will have a face full of hot coffee. I can pull my Templar OTF and have the razor sharp D2 steer in you faster than you can turn that shotgun on me. Former Army Infantry, and still willing to stop a threat in any way possible. That sort of training does not come easy, and it is almost permanent.

My concealed carry is not easily accessed. My organic matter dismantling device is faster, and at close range you would have to be really quick and already actively killing me to avoid being permanently stopped. My occupation involves healing, but my training to be willing to kill was first and went deeper.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

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I do try to be a Christian, and I do not wish to kill. That said, I am not concerned for the life of one who has chosen evil and is actively harming or attempting to harm others.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by OldWin »

Just my opinion......
Only those who have been in a gunfight can really know how they will react. Training helps, but is no guarantee.

This outcome was very fortunate in my opinion. A huge advantage lies with the attacker. Only he knows when and where. It is almost impossible to be constantly prepared for attack. The attacker had another huge advantage in that he was armed with a long gun.This can't be overstated. The good guys are forced to react, and with a more difficult to use and less effective weapon.
It is fortunate the attacker was an idiot and entered at the front so a responder was already facing the right direction.
All handguns are notoriously poor stoppers when facing a determined enemy. Immediate incapacitation is rare, and even 30 seconds can be an eternity when they are still shooting.
Several years ago, I made myself stop carrying pistols that were "convenient" but difficult to shoot at longer ranges. These guns lose a lot due to short barrels and make even marginal chamberings recoil severely. This decision was mostly for summer, as most of the year I carry a full size 1911. The smallest pistol I carry now is a Glock 19. This was a huge commitment, and required me to make wardrobe changes and still be uncomfortable. It is a huge pain, but I feel much better prepared. I also find I practice way more than I did with the smaller pistols.
Sorry for the ramble.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by AJMD429 »

OldWin wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:48 am
Several years ago, I made myself stop carrying pistols that were "convenient" but difficult to shoot at longer ranges.
Forty years ago when I lived in Ohio and they had no 'permits' for CCW, I would carry whatever was discrete and sacrifice stopping power for that reason (although the first year there the only handgun I had for CCW was a 7-1/2" Ruger Super Blackhawk in a Bianchi X-15 shoulder rig... :shock: - good thing pharmacists and pharmacy students have those long white coats to wear... :D . . . I hate to imagine what would have happened to me as a student, caught with a "44 Magnum" on campus or clinical rotations... :? ).

Since then, however, I pretty much carry a 1911 or full-size 9mm. If God forbid I ever have to shoot a violent aggressor, I want them to be stopped immediately. As for worrying about being 'spotted', since I'm a legal CCW licensee, I don't fear law enforcement, and most bad-guys aren't that observant. The non-bad-guys of the world really don't seem to care if a good-guy is carrying a firearm, (and most people seem content with the illusion that I'm a good-guy :mrgreen: ).

Is a full-size gun uncomfortable...? Well, sort of, but life is full of tradeoffs, and there are far worse 'discomforts' I experience on a daily basis than toting around a fist-sized chunk of metal.

They say "the gun you have on you, even if it is 'inadequate', is better than the 'best fighting pistol in the world' you leave at home" - I tend to think more along the lines of "....why would you leave your 'best fighting pistol' at home...????"
Last edited by AJMD429 on Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by marlinman93 »

I don't think the god guy who took the murderer down with a head shot was a lucky shot at all. It might be a lucky shot for many people, but he is a firearms instructor with his own training facility where he trains people for a living. I'm betting he can make head shots at 50 ft. all day long, every day.
50 ft. is standard distance for Bullseye pistol matches, and when I shot Bullseye matches anyone who couldn't keep all 10 shots in at least a 2" circle at 50 ft., offhand, one handed, couldn't really compete. Now there's no pressure at a match like this gentleman was seeing' but I bet his head shot was pure instinct training, and not luck at all.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by marlinman93 »

AJMD429 wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:20 am


Since then, however, I pretty much carry a 1911 or full-size 9mm. If God forbid I ever have to shoot a violent aggressor, I want them to be stopped immediately. As for worrying about being 'spotted', since I'm a legal CCW licensee, I don't fear law enforcement, and most bad-guys aren't that observant. The non-bad-guys of the world really don't seem to care if a good-guy is carrying a firearm, and most people seem content with the illusion that I'm a good-guy.
Same here. The only time I'm not carrying a full size 1911, or my full size S&W 59 9mm is if it's summer and I can;t conceal either of the big guns.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by wm »

marlinman93 wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:42 am
I don't think the god guy who took the murderer down with a head shot was a lucky shot at all. It might be a lucky shot for many people, but he is a firearms instructor with his own training facility where he trains people for a living. I'm betting he can make head shots at 50 ft. all day long, every day.
50 ft. is standard distance for Bullseye pistol matches, and when I shot Bullseye matches anyone who couldn't keep all 10 shots in at least a 2" circle at 50 ft., offhand, one handed, couldn't really compete. Now there's no pressure at a match like this gentleman was seeing' but I bet his head shot was pure instinct training, and not luck at all.
The old saying " You default to your training, you don't rise to the occasion." comes to mind.

That's why I expect if I was placed in the same position I would have double tapped to the chest, and then looked for a head shot. 35 years of practice doing just that, it is almost built in to the muscle memory.

Wm
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

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https://abcnews.go.com/US/dhs-chief-war ... l_hero_hed

"The acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security received a stark warning that houses of worship and faith-based groups were in imminent danger of being targeted for violence less than two weeks ………."

I'm not second guessing if they should have done something different. It is a difficult call to make. If you issue a warning and nothing happens you diminish your ability to warn people when you have more concrete evidence. Lone wolf attacks present unique challenges.

But what this does tell me is my fear that more of this may be coming is not unfounded.

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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Old No7 »

OldWin wrote: ↑
Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:48 am
Just my opinion......
Only those who have been in a gunfight can really know how they will react. Training helps, but is no guarantee.
Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:01 pm
Inaction and slow thinking got both of the good guys killed........
I agree with those 2 quotes, and others too, but they prompt this thought.

Besides "training to shoot and HIT"...

==> Should church security teams and law-abiding gunowners have any training in pre-empting and preventing a perceived threat?

At the risk of being a Monday morning quarterback, I wonder if that individual should have been approached by 2 or 3 members of the security team, rather than standing back and watching & waiting for something to potentially happen?

If the individual had been unarmed and was just drunk or doped out, I'd rather make an error confronting them in that case -- even in the midst of a church service -- rather than risk having what transpired happen. Sure, it's very easy to sit here in the comfort of my office and second-guess, and I mean no disrespect at all; but knowing and recognizing THERE IS EVIL in this world, when one senses that a potential threat is among us...

==> Should we sheepdogs bark a little bit louder when a perceived threat has been recognized?

I honestly don't know; but to learn from this tragedy, that's the question I've been asking myself...

And I pray to God I would do the right thing in a similar situation.

God Bless the two men who met their maker in His house -- where it should never happen -- and also the families of all involved; and I'm sure even the uninjured children and other adults are now scarred in some way.

It's a sad state of affairs for our country for sure.

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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by hfcable »

the church member who took out the bad guy described the situation this way:

Jack Wilson said that in the chaos that broke out when the shooting started, he drew his handgun and paused to prevent shooting people standing in his line of fire.
"There were people in front of me, between the shooter and myself," Wilson said. "I had to wait for just a second because the whole thing was less than six seconds from start to finish and I had to make sure I didn't hit a member as they were right in front of me." "I only fired one round. It was the only shot I had, which was a head shot," Wilson said. "In my classes, I teach not to take head shots, but that was the only shot I had that was a clear shot and I was comfortable with taking the shot because of my training and my practice."

He said once he took out the suspect, he walked over to the gunman to make sure he "was not going to get up." " There was no verbal communication out of him whatsoever at that point. He was down, he was bleeding profusely from his head and the only movement was just body twitching, which happens when someone is in that condition where they're about to die," Wilson said.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by marlinman93 »

Instructing the general church population on what to do in a scenario like this is a good idea, but it's also something most pastors and hierarchy of the churches seem hesitant to broach. I don't think that's because it's a touchy issue, but rather because they fear it might make some church goers stay home in fear.
We all know that the possibility of this happening was real, and the possibility of it happening again is just as real. But hopefully the outcome in the Texas church will also make some bad guys think twice about whether it's easy to do and survive.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Lastmohecken »

The guy came in with a hoodie on. Someone should have called him out on it before the shooting even got underway. And yes, the guys that got shot, tragic as it was, did not react quick enough, but I think most people just become a little paralyzed at the onset of events like this.

A cool head, and decisive action, supplemented with some training and the means and skill to defend oneself is critical, to shut something like this down before innocent lives are lost. Thank goodness the man that stopped it was close enough and had the skills and equipment to get the job done before more lives were lost.

I am on my church security team, and it's a little disturbing that all of them carry .380's except for me, and I carry a 45 caliber Lightweight commander, and pretty much always have in a Milt Sparks Summer Special IWB holster. And the guys with the .380's probably can't shoot them all that well either. What can I say. All I know is I would hate to find myself in that position against a shotgun, with even a 45, let alone a tiny .380.

I wonder if the man that took out the bad guy, positioned himself on that side of the church, after spotting the unusual hoodie dressed individual, or was it just pure luck that he was close enough to quickly take him out, because if he had been on the other side of the church, this tragedy would have probably been much worse with more lives lost.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

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I have talked to lots of gun-guys who seem to have a strange kind of 'anti-macho' attitude; I guess it is similar to the eyeball-roll we do when we see a 'mall-ninja' type gun/owner. The problem is, their attempt to distance themselves from the overly-macho, overly-caliber-obsessed types, may lead to innocent deaths.

As we age, we also tend to gain weight, and become more sedentery, and less willing to put up with discomfort or inconvenience, so the horrible pain and agony of carrying that 45 oz 45 is just too much for us to bear... :roll:

So we tell ourselves that we don't need "all that macho stuff", and/or that our ageing firearms skills from 'back-in-the-day' are so superb that we can rely on 'shot placement' with our diminuitive little CCW piece instead of depending on the laws of physics, meplat, tissue displacement, and quantity of follow-up shots.

Oddly enough, in our attempt to be less 'macho', we really do the opposite. I, for one, am happy to admit that in a life-and-death situation, I just may NOT hit the brainstem or left ventricle with a 'well-placed-shot' from a cutesy little 380. Maybe some will see my choice of a full-size semiauto, preferably a doublestack 45, as evidence of 'compensating' for some other size problem, but we can retire to a private place and I'll be happy to put them at ease in that regard.

Anyway, if a murderer needs my intervention, I, for one, would prefer the biggest, highest-capacity, weapon I can handle...I am NOT willing to prioritize my convenience, my 'image', nor my comfort, over the safety of my self, family, friends, coworkers, patients, or innocent strangers.

Ideally I'd like at least 100 'Taylor Knock Outs' at hand; a single-stack 45 ACP, double-stack 9mm, or 6-shot 44 or 45 revolver will do. A double-stack 45 is even better. Of course most rifles or shotguns do as well (...if I knew in advance I had no choice but to deal with such a scenario, I'd probably have an M1A or an AR-15 or Mini-14 - or my Saiga 12 gauge with a 20 round drum...).

Carrying a 380 or a 9mm that holds less than 15 rounds is surely better than nothing, and I'm glad the petite women who have to wear scrubs, or the elderly, or frail, at least have something that goes bang, but if you are an adult male and good with firearms, I urge you to carry something that can deliver 100 TKO's rapidly, for the same of your community, if not yourself.
Last edited by AJMD429 on Wed Jan 01, 2020 7:23 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by stretch »

Lots of good comments and observations.

I think that things went about as well as could be expected under the circumstances.
Could people have reacted faster? Probably. But 6 seconds form the start of the show
to a dead perpetrator is not bad for professionals, let alone churchgoers.
It was a tough decision for Mr. Wilson to hold his fire for a second or two until he had
a clear backstop. Kudos to him for having the discipline and patience to do that.

People are reluctant these days to attack another human being.
That continues to be beaten into us. "You might get sued...." And of course the TSA
and the Border Patrol reinforce that attitude. Don't do anything that will get you noticed
and/or arrested. Comply! NO!!! We have the fundamental human right to defend ourselves
against ANY entity that is either trying to harm us or another person with no provocation, or
to unreasonably restrict our liberty.

In the face of obvious evil, one must see only green lights. Eliminate the evil by
any means necessary - there are no rules except that which works.

It's awful that two good men died, but we have to give thanks that the situation wasn't
much, much, worse.

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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by piller »

Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit Of Happiness are so important and an inherent right for each one of us that they are mentioned in our Country's founding documents. The Right To Life is an inherent right that means you can defend yourself from attack. I do not care where I am, a physical attack upon my person voids all rules against violence. There is nothing after that which prohibits me from using a like level of violence to stop the attack. In the Book of Luke, Jesus told his Disciples to sell their extra cloaks and buy swords. He said that two were enough. I can only understand that he knew what would happen and how much was needed.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Merle »

AJMD429 wrote: ↑
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:34 pm
Did you guys see how the recent attempted 'mass shooter' at the West Freeway Church in Texas wound up having at least five churchgoers draw down on him and lethally shoot him within six seconds... :mrgreen:

Of course CNN makes it out like the only reason the murderer was stopped was that a "former reserve deputy" was there as part of a "security detail", so it is all ok and official and all that.... :roll: https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/us/texas ... index.html
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Ysabel Kid »

I don't want to be a Monday morning quarterback either, but as I said in another post, the shooting has a lot of lessons. I agree with others that the security person who died did so because he was slow to the draw. A combination of him carrying in the small of the back and not drawing before he stood up.

Our church's safety team trains a couple times a month, one at least at the range. That level of training is a minimum. I'm confident that an unaccompanied male (they already get our attention), dressed in a trench coat with a hoodie and sunglasses wouldn't have got 6 feet into the foyer before he was stopped and challenged.

Churches need to understand that shootings at religious places are now "a thing" (for the same reason they are in other "gun-free" zones). All such placed need trained security. Further, if the security team is doing their jobs, some people are going to be stopped and challenged. Some will get upset. It's the price of being vigilant and safe.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by marlinman93 »

Lastmohecken wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:14 pm

I wonder if the man that took out the bad guy, positioned himself on that side of the church, after spotting the unusual hoodie dressed individual, or was it just pure luck that he was close enough to quickly take him out, because if he had been on the other side of the church, this tragedy would have probably been much worse with more lives lost.
Did you notice how far away the church security guy was? Not exactly positioned "close enough to quickly take him out". Since it's a large church, he was 50 ft. away. Not exactly the distance one would choose if he was getting ready to take a possible clean shot.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Tycer »

marlinman93 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:19 am
Lastmohecken wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:14 pm

I wonder if the man that took out the bad guy, positioned himself on that side of the church, after spotting the unusual hoodie dressed individual, or was it just pure luck that he was close enough to quickly take him out, because if he had been on the other side of the church, this tragedy would have probably been much worse with more lives lost.
Did you notice how far away the church security guy was? Not exactly positioned "close enough to quickly take him out". Since it's a large church, he was 50 ft. away. Not exactly the distance one would choose if he was getting ready to take a possible clean shot.
There were two security guys right on the Pelosi
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Old No7 »

It wasn't our choice to have this tragic event unfold so we could second-guess it, but I believe we have a responsibility to ourselves, our loved ones and our communities to to learn from it now that it's out there.

That said, I'm with Jay on this:
Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:57 pm
Churches need to understand that shootings at religious places are now "a thing" (for the same reason they are in other "gun-free" zones). All such placed need trained security. Further, if the security team is doing their jobs, some people are going to be stopped and challenged. Some will get upset. It's the price of being vigilant and safe.
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Re: Six Seconds.....Can I get an "AMEN".....!!!

Post by Blaine »

Old No7 wrote: ↑
Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:17 pm
It wasn't our choice to have this tragic event unfold so we could second-guess it, but I believe we have a responsibility to ourselves, our loved ones and our communities to to learn from it now that it's out there.

That said, I'm with Jay on this:
Ysabel Kid wrote: ↑
Wed Jan 08, 2020 9:57 pm
Churches need to understand that shootings at religious places are now "a thing" (for the same reason they are in other "gun-free" zones). All such placed need trained security. Further, if the security team is doing their jobs, some people are going to be stopped and challenged. Some will get upset. It's the price of being vigilant and safe.
Old No7
It's sad, but some "basic training" for groups of people in any situation. Everybody hit the ground and get small/provide a line of sight for the defenders... If you are inclined to engage the shooter, stay low until ready, then try to take the shot kneeling so if you miss the shot will go up and away from the backdrop. These days? Condition White is unacceptable.
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