SIG's new military round runs at 80,000!

[Bill in Oregon]

Very interesting development if you ask me.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/digest/277- ... mystified/

[wm]

The sour puss in me says "No free lunches in ballistics" …… there will be a price to be paid. Recoil? I'm guessing this will stress test any optic. Barrel erosion? If 22-250 burns out barrels, I can only imagine this will as well.

Maybe there is a way to compensate with better built, better materials, better ergonomics but my first thought is always there is no free lunch.

On the other hand it is quite an accomplishment and demonstrates there is still new ground to break.

Wm

[AJMD429]

No way....80 k psi is bad enough, but a three-piece cartridge case...???



Naaah......nothing to go wrong there....

[wm]

No way....80 k psi is bad enough, but a three-piece cartridge case...???

Naaah......nothing to go wrong there....

Actually common in military these days. For example 50 BMG has a brass base, a polymer body, and classic bullet. Saves a lot on weight which allows for more ammo or more fuel. Important in regards with helicopters and such.

https://www.guns.com/news/2019/04/04/ma ... unds-video

Wm

[AJMD429]

Actually common in military these days.

Thanks...I didn't know that...!

Still gives me the creeps....

[stretch]

That's an interesting cartridge.

Is the brass reloadable?

How does one check for case head separation? I'd bet any separation
is at the joint between brass and steel.

It would be just the ticket for antelope, I'd think. And whitetail. Long-range and flat
shooting. Probably has a decent ballistic coefficient, too.

How much is a box of 20, though?

-Stretch

[piller]

I am not so sure about the recoil. Pressure and powder volume are factors, as well as bullet weight. It sounds to me as if it will kick pretty hard. If the Army adopts it, then it should become available in good numbers for civilian use. The .270 Win is a longer case with about the same ballistics. A shorter and lighter rifle with good ergonomics and a good recoil pad with a .277 bullet doesn't sound bad. I still like my .270 Win in my Rem 700.

[wm]

I feel like if its something that I can't do with a 30-06/308 then it is something I don't need to be doing.

In a Rocky Road world, I'm just sort of Vanilla.

Wm

[AJMD429]

Seems like a solution searching for a problem.

I get the 'incremental benefits', but still think the weak link is not the cartridge, but the training, the supply-chain, the logistics, the tactics, and all the other things EXCEPT a couple dozen grains or hundred feet per second...

Well trained troops with compact ultra-reliable carbines, air-support, and snipers, would do well with any number of "weapon systems" or "platforms" already in existence. Plus, those ones would have proven track records of both good qualities and known weaknesses.

[JimT]

I am pretty confident that this is mostly marketing scatology, hoping to get ahead in the selection games. If / when this thing ever meets the public it won't be what the article above paints it.

If you follow this sort of thing, file it away and check in the future to see how it turned out.

[marlinman93]

So they made a .277 caliber cartridge going 3,000 fps, but pushed it to 80,000 psi to get there? A .270 Win. goes the same 3,000 fps with a 140 gr. bullet and doesn't need to reach anything close to 80,000 psi. Am I the only one who wonders why this seems like an exercise that didn't need to be done?
Once again a gun maker has come up with some new razzle dazzle cartridge to do something that a lot of other cartridges already have done for decades. And at a higher cost, and higher pressure.

[JimT]

Unfortunately we don't have too many really honest writers out there anymore. And you sure cannot trust the advertising. I mean, look what Winchester says about the 350 Legend:

win.JPG

I pulled that off the Winchester site.
No mention of the .444 Marlin .. a straight-walled rifle cartridge that outperforms the Legend all the way around.

444.JPG

350.JPG

It's a sad commentary on the times we live in.

[harry]

So they made a .277 caliber cartridge going 3,000 fps, but pushed it to 80,000 psi to get there? A .270 Win. goes the same 3,000 fps with a 140 gr. bullet and doesn't need to reach anything close to 80,000 psi. Am I the only one who wonders why this seems like an exercise that didn't need to be done?
Once again a gun maker has come up with some new razzle dazzle cartridge to do something that a lot of other cartridges already have done for decades. And at a higher cost, and higher pressure.

They are doing the 3000 FPS from a 16” barrel, 270 would never do that.

[marlinman93]

So they made a .277 caliber cartridge going 3,000 fps, but pushed it to 80,000 psi to get there? A .270 Win. goes the same 3,000 fps with a 140 gr. bullet and doesn't need to reach anything close to 80,000 psi. Am I the only one who wonders why this seems like an exercise that didn't need to be done?
Once again a gun maker has come up with some new razzle dazzle cartridge to do something that a lot of other cartridges already have done for decades. And at a higher cost, and higher pressure.

They are doing the 3000 FPS from a 16” barrel, 270 would never do that.

Close enough to it and a heck of a lot easier on barrel and gun. The .270 does it from a 20" barrel, and if it only does 2800 fps from a 16", I;d still rather do so at much less pressure.

[Rusty]

I heard a Sig rep on Guntalk with Tom Gresham Sunday. He said it was a .277 dia.bullet at 3,000 FPS working at 80K PSI. He didn't say anything about it being a military cartridge though. He said there won't be any reloading for it for a while as it is a proprietary cartridge and no one is making dies for it at this time.