44 Mag rifle versus handgun

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AJMD429
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44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#1 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:48 pm

Nothing revealing, but nice to see a popular YouTube site (IraqVeteran8888) do anything 'levergun'... :D

https://youtu.be/DnFlxVBt26k
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#2 Post by Blaine » Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:57 pm

If only FPE were the only variable that determined lethality. 8) It surely does make it easier to shoot at longer ranges. I hope Grizz jumps in on this one...he's done some great testing.
8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#3 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:21 pm

Blaine wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:57 pm
If only FPE were the only variable that determined lethality. 8) It surely does make it easier to shoot at longer ranges. I hope Grizz jumps in on this one...he's done some great testing.
Yeah - I think the TKO (Taylor Knock-Out) factor might be best overall, unless one is counting on extremely precise shot placement, in which case a 17 Hornet with a hard-cored bullet would probably kill most stuff with a brainstem shot... :D
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#4 Post by crs » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:26 pm

Piller has a .44 mag in rifle and revolver , so he may have some opinions.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#5 Post by Grizz » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 pm

I didn't catch the twist rate on the Henry. My son's Marlin 44mag has the slow twist barrel and will not stabilize longer bullets. But he has taken boat loads of deer with white box 240gr JSP. I loaded some 300gr bullets for daughter's caribou hunt. The carbine would not stabilize them and she took my SBH with 10" barrel. I like seeing the hand gun comparison. I tell my kids that shooting the rifle saves getting closer with the hand gun.

It would have been interesting if 8888 would have dropped to 180s for a comparison.

The way I like to see the data is the TKO formula. So a spread that would interest me would be to load 180, 200, 240, 320, and 405s and run that comparison. The Smith might not handle the 405s. The Henry might not either depending on the spin rate. That kind of testing leads to interesting info. When I lived in Alaska I didn't have a chrono, and I never ran this series of tests. I just plugged deer with various loads until I got the results I like.

I think a Model 92 that could shoot 405gr or 425gr 44s could replace my 45/70 guide gun on the principle that it would be like a RedHawk 44/405 on steroids. Any way you do it, 44mag is a big hammer on deer.

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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#6 Post by GunnyMack » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:29 am

Many moons ago we did a pig hunt up in Tioga county PA. Yeah it was fenced but it was just for fun. Anyhow I was torn between a 629 or my Ruger Carbine. After load development I settled on the longer barrel and Hornady 300gr XTP bullets. the pig I shot was on the big side, 1 XTP through the ribs broadside went clean through expanding to about .750" never would have had that kind of expansion out of a 6" barrel even with lighter bullets.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#7 Post by piller » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:44 am

I have had a few animals take some steps after being hit with a .44 Mag pistol, but the carbine has been DRT 1 shot and no further steps each time. Very little meat damage even from the carbine. It is light, handy, and accurate. By the way, it is a Ruger semi-auto. Being gas operated, it needs full power loads to function. Light loads do not generate the needed gas pressure to spit out the empties. I just use 240 grain JSP for hunting. There hasn't been a need for anything heavier so far.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#8 Post by COSteve » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:16 am

I've posted the same kind of results with the .357 Mag; pistol to rifle velocity increases that are in the 500-600fps range depending upon magnum powder choice. I believe that all of the larger case, magnum pistol calibers; .357 Mag, .41 Mag, .44 Mag, .45 Colt (Ruger load), and 500 S&W show these large velocity increases vs the 150-200fps increases achieved with the smaller cased pistol calibers; 9mm, 40s&w, 10mm, 45acp, 45 Super, etc., when shot from carbines vs pistol length barrels.

Certainly, the fact that a revolver loses pressure and velocity because of the gap between the cylinder and the barrel vs the tighter sealed chamber of a carbine affects velocities but even in semi-autos, the longer barrels allow the large cased, magnum calibers to shine. My own tests with .357 Mag, 40 S&W, 10mm, 45 Super, and 45 Colt (Ruger Load) all show much larger velocity gains for the large cased calibers vs the small cased ones in carbines vs pistol barrels.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#9 Post by Old Savage » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:29 am

45 Colt will have the smaller range velocity increase at normal pressures and the larger jump at magnum pressures.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#10 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:31 pm

Grizz wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 pm
I think a Model 92 that could shoot 405gr or 425gr 44s could replace my 45/70 guide gun on the principle that it would be like a RedHawk 44/405 on steroids.
How about the Rossi 92 in 454 Casull...I think I've seen 395 grain 1800 fps or so loads.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#11 Post by Grizz » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:24 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:31 pm
Grizz wrote:
Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:34 pm
I think a Model 92 that could shoot 405gr or 425gr 44s could replace my 45/70 guide gun on the principle that it would be like a RedHawk 44/405 on steroids.
How about the Rossi 92 in 454 Casull...I think I've seen 395 grain 1800 fps or so loads.
It seems to me that the rossi 45 cal barrel is very thin, not much meat on it. and I don't know if I trust the rossi steel that much. do you know what the twist rate of their Casull gun is?

I have a browning 92 44 project gun. maybe I should bite the bullet and get a decent barrel for it. I would probably stick with the 43 caliber for the extra metal and rifle it to shoot 405 to 420gr bullets. And just consider it an 80 yard gun. I don't know that I've ever shot a deer that far away, and it's mr claws I'm most sensitive about.

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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#12 Post by Bronco » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:42 am

Grizz wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:24 pm
I have a browning 92 44 project gun. maybe I should bite the bullet and get a decent barrel for it. I would probably stick with the 43 caliber for the extra metal and rifle it to shoot 405 to 420gr bullets. And just consider it an 80 yard gun. I don't know that I've ever shot a deer that far away, and it's mr claws I'm most sensitive about.
I have a Marlin that I put another barrel on. Octagonal no taper! Muzzle same as breach across the flats, lots on meat on the barrel. Also went with a 1:16 twist. 300 grainers at 1750 fps out of it's 24" tube. 3" groups at 100 yds.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#13 Post by Grizz » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:08 am

Bronco wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:42 am
Grizz wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:24 pm
I have a browning 92 44 project gun. maybe I should bite the bullet and get a decent barrel for it. I would probably stick with the 43 caliber for the extra metal and rifle it to shoot 405 to 420gr bullets. And just consider it an 80 yard gun. I don't know that I've ever shot a deer that far away, and it's mr claws I'm most sensitive about.
I have a Marlin that I put another barrel on. Octagonal no taper! Muzzle same as breach across the flats, lots on meat on the barrel. Also went with a 1:16 twist. 300 grainers at 1750 fps out of it's 24" tube. 3" groups at 100 yds.
this sounds good. I would probably choose around a 17" length, but I like the idea of octagonal with no taper. The replacement barrel I have is 1:33 I think, so I never installed it...

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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#14 Post by Old Savage » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:08 am

20" 45 Colt Rossi 92 with custom 360 gr Keith bullets and I think 18 gr of Lil Gun got about 1550 ... seemed like low end 45-70.
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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#15 Post by Grizz » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:29 am

Old Savage wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:08 am
20" 45 Colt Rossi 92 with custom 360 gr Keith bullets and I think 18 gr of Lil Gun got about 1550 ... seemed like low end 45-70.
is that the early stainless version? my daughter has one, but she won't sell.

that'd be about right if the bullet was 460gr

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Re: 44 Mag rifle versus handgun

#16 Post by Old Savage » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:44 am

I did have a stainless and liked it but traded it off. The one I have now is blued and very smooth. That load feels like shotgun recoil. I have a B92 in 44 and a Rossi in 357. I have chronographed various 44, 45 and 357s in addition to 45-70s 18-28" and various lengths of 444s. In the pistol cartridges the differences seem to range between 200 fps in factory level 45 Colt to about 500 fps at magnum pressures pistol to rifle in all the calibers.

A friend had a .454 92. It had some problems with the pressure.
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