nd in need of help... Win 1895

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

nd in need of help... Win 1895

#1 Post by DocRock » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:20 pm

Aloha and Happy Halloween from Colorado.

In need of some help please. I bought a Providence Tool Co. replica Lyman 21 Sight and installed it on my 80s vintage, Miroku made "Browning" 1895 in 30-40. Followed a YouTube vid on disassembly (chap with a Russian contract original). However, the *** doesn't continue to reassembly!

How in the name of the Great Pumpkin does one re-install the finger lever catch and the magazine carrier screw? Have tried making slave pins to no avail. Fingers bleeding, sanity gone, Bourbon calling. Would appreciate your kind assistance!

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25327
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#2 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:42 pm

Be patient, and someone here who knows the 1895's well will come along.

In the meantime, enjoy a bourbon or two, browse the forum for other stuff, and.....WELCOME to the forum.

Definitely be patient, though - I've messed up more than a few gun screws or worse when haste overtook patience.... :oops:
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
Pete44ru
Posting leader...
Posts: 11200
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am
Location: Southern New England

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#3 Post by Pete44ru » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:47 pm

.

Welcome to the insanity, Doc - you can feel right at home.

This should be what you're looking for: https://www.rarewinchesters.com/images/ ... mbly.shtml

.
Last edited by Pete44ru on Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.


(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

.

User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2860
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#4 Post by crs » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:54 pm

welcome to the forum and Yes, where are multiple Winchester 1895 shooters here and some with experience with the sight you have.

My 1895 .405 has a Williams receiver sight, so I can be of no help, but do sympathize. Maybe a picture will help sooth your frazzled nerves:
Image
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

User avatar
vancelw
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3587
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 1:56 pm
Location: 90% NE Texas and 10% SE Montana

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#5 Post by vancelw » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:26 pm

I put a Providence Tool Pattern 21 on my Browning 1895 (.35 Whelen) a few years back. I don't remember it being hard to reassemble....but, I have slept once or twice since then.
I had a Model 71 apart one time (or maybe it was an 1886) and I was standing on my head, wishing I had 4 hands trying to get it back together. Finally threw my hands up and went to bed.
Next morning, it went right together. :?

Let me dig around and see if I have assembly instruction for the 1895 somewhere.
"Make yourself an honest man, and then you may be sure that there is one less scoundrel in the world." - Thomas Carlyle

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#6 Post by DocRock » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:26 pm

Thanks very much. Dug up the "Rare Winchesters" reassembly instructions earlier. However, "and drive in the finger lever link pin (52), connecting the link with the finger lever.", does not begin to describe the fiendish evils of JMB's mind. The tiny little finger lever has to fit inside the finger lever link, against the pressure of a spring and plunger and those two holes have to aling with the trigger plate holes to drive the pin in. There is no humanly possible way that I can perceive to push the lever against the plunger and spring with the force required to align the two holes and drive the pin through it. Same thing with the magazine carrier screw. I have made slave pins out of nails but the one for the finger lever is ever so slightly smaller than the the full diameter of the holes, so it doesn't do the needful. I'm hoping some old salt will turn up and describe the easy way to do it that any sane person would figure out just by looking at it...

bikerbeans
Levergunner 1.0
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:39 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#7 Post by bikerbeans » Fri Nov 01, 2019 6:20 am

crs,

Stop posting pics! I am trying to thin the herd and you are not helping! You have a beautiful 1895!

BB

User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14638
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#8 Post by J Miller » Fri Nov 01, 2019 10:17 am

DocRock,

I know nothing about the 1895s, never had one, so I can't help with this one. However from owning quite a few rifles designed by Browning I can say with some confidence that if you have to force something you're going about it wrong.
Like Vance said set it aside and work on it later.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: New here and in need of help... Win 1895

#9 Post by DocRock » Sat Nov 02, 2019 4:44 pm

First of all, while I hate to blaspheme, I want to know WTH JMB was thinking? darn and blast his eyes!

I achieved partial victory through bloody minded persistence:

The finger lever catch pin must be held in place with a slave pin while fitted to the receiver. I fabricated the slave pin from a nail. Unless your slave pin is the exact, I repeat exact, diameter of the actual pin, then when you drive the actual pin in through the receiver, as the slave pin is driven out, the holes between the finger lever and the catch will misalign. his stops the actual pin from being drive the full way through. So, you have to draw the stub of the slave pin out from the left side with pliers and, working the alignment of the holes with a smaller diameter punch from the left side, apply pressure on the pin on the right side. As you fiddle the alignment with the punch, the pressure should push the actual pin into the third ring of alignment, ie into the actual catch hole. At that point, there is finally sufficient alignment to tap the actual pin all the way home.

I now have to undertake a similar procedure with the magazine carrier screw.

By the way, while it was no help whatsoever on the finger lever catch pin, its description of how to reinstall the magazine confirmed that I was on the right track and is an otherwise very helpful resource for the Model 1895: http://homesteadparts.com/shopcart/pid_1931.htm

User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2860
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#10 Post by crs » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:19 pm

Bikerbeans - thanks, I like it too- so much that it is my "shooter".

Here is a pic of my unfired "looker"':
Image
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

User avatar
Shasta
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1423
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:50 pm
Location: Shasta County in far Northern California

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#11 Post by Shasta » Sat Nov 02, 2019 8:34 pm

Proper slave pins are the key. Go to Harbor Freight and for $10 buy a set of their drill bits. They don't drill holes worth a darn, but can be ground into dandy slave pins! :D

Shasta
California Rifle & Pistol Association LIFE Member
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member


http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html

avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#12 Post by DocRock » Thu Nov 07, 2019 7:25 pm

Finally got it all back together and drilled and tapped for the Providence Tool Co., Pattern 21 sight. Looking forward to shooting it!
1F2E42E7-1542-488C-918F-B952D8707D88.jpeg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 25327
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#13 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:22 pm

Forum Rules require a complete Range Report.... :wink: :D
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#14 Post by DocRock » Fri Nov 08, 2019 12:33 pm

So, this rifle has been capable of 3 MOA rifle with jacketed and cast bullets and the buckhorn sights. I would say that is the best I can do with open irons.

I shoot in a competition that requires US rifles of a pre 1898 design and no optics, firing at 200 yards. So, I wanted the Lyman 21 sight to see whether I can get this down to competition level groups. My Rolling Block replica in 45-70 with a Lee Shaver Vernier tang sight will do 1.5 MOA groups on a good day - Postel 535 grs over 68 grs 1.5 Fg Old Eynsford. I also shoot a Krag Jorgensen 1894 with a Lyman aperture sight that will do sub 2 MOA groups with the Lyman 311284 GC over 22 grs 4227. Hoping I can get the same out of this rifle at 200 yards with that 3311284/4227 load.

User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2860
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#15 Post by crs » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:45 pm

Doc,
Please report on the accuracy you get as I am curious as to what my 1895 .405 gets.

Since I do not target shoot and everything I shoot at dies, I can only assume that he accuracy is average for a Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 (whatever that is) and just go on killing game with mine. :)
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#16 Post by DocRock » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:19 pm

crs wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:45 pm
Doc,
Please report on the accuracy you get as I am curious as to what my 1895 .405 gets.

Since I do not target shoot and everything I shoot at dies, I can only assume that he accuracy is average for a Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 (whatever that is) and just go on killing game with mine. :)
If it doesn't go down after a 405 Win strike, it's probably not of this world!

HawkCreek
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#17 Post by HawkCreek » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:29 pm

Out of curiosity have you tried playing with the forearm pressure on your 1895 to see how it affects groups? I swear my 1895SRC .30-06 (Miroku) will do better than 2MOA but it's been a long time since I shot it at paper. I've been holding out of doing any serious range work until I can get my Providence 21 mounted (I've only had it a few years now haha).

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#18 Post by DocRock » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:15 pm

HawkCreek wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Out of curiosity have you tried playing with the forearm pressure on your 1895 to see how it affects groups? I swear my 1895SRC .30-06 (Miroku) will do better than 2MOA but it's been a long time since I shot it at paper. I've been holding out of doing any serious range work until I can get my Providence 21 mounted (I've only had it a few years now haha).
I have not. 3 MoA is about my best with open irons, no matter how good the rifle is. I also found that the 210 grs at 1750 fps required max elevation on the buckhorn to reach out to 100 yards. Will certainly factor forend pressure in once I get out with the aperture sight, thanks.

HawkCreek
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 268
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:21 pm

Re: nd in need of help... Win 1895

#19 Post by HawkCreek » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:26 pm

DocRock wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:15 pm
HawkCreek wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:29 pm
Out of curiosity have you tried playing with the forearm pressure on your 1895 to see how it affects groups? I swear my 1895SRC .30-06 (Miroku) will do better than 2MOA but it's been a long time since I shot it at paper. I've been holding out of doing any serious range work until I can get my Providence 21 mounted (I've only had it a few years now haha).
I have not. 3 MoA is about my best with open irons, no matter how good the rifle is. I also found that the 210 grs at 1750 fps required max elevation on the buckhorn to reach out to 100 yards. Will certainly factor forend pressure in once I get out with the aperture sight, thanks.

I was just curious as the rifle version has a threaded block dovetailed to the barrel that holds the forearm on while my SRC's have a small 'recoil lug" shaped thing dovetailed to the barrel but its the barrel band that actually holds it all together.
I have the parts to convert a forearm to the threaded style. Thinking about doing this and relieving the barrel band just to see how accurate I can get one of my 1895's.

DocRock
Levergunner
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:06 pm

Re: New here and in need of help... Win 1895

#20 Post by DocRock » Thu Nov 14, 2019 6:05 pm

So took it out to the range today, mainly for a function test. Everything works correctly :D

Only shot at the 100 yard targets this morning. The aperture piece on the Providence Tool Lyman 21 pattern sight is held in place by a very small screw. It was low 40s F out there and it took a bloody long time to adjust windage. Elevation adjustments are much less fiddly and easy to achieve. Because I was just trying to get the windage adjusted, there was no shooting for groups. But my first group, dead cold, while a good 3 " to the right and 4" low, was 4 shots inside 2". That's with 23 grs IMR4227 under the 210 grs GC Lymqn 311284. Took a while to get centered. I much prefer a screw adjustable aperture. Next time out I will shoot at 200 over sticks for score and advise.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ragnor and 11 guests