My Opinion

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JimT
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My Opinion

#1 Post by JimT » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:08 am

Being an Old Fart of questionable mind and beat-up body I set forth by my hand this day my personal opinion on the subject of handguns. No one in their right mind has to agree with my opinion or accept it as valid. It's mine. Not yours. If your opinion happens to be similar then we might both inhabit the same facility some day. The one with rubber walls and crayons to write with. If your opinion is a polar opposite of mine we can at least to disagree agreeably no matter how wrong you are. And honestly, whatever a person chooses to use, that is up to them. A hero of mine once said, "Every dog has to scratch his own fleas."

That said, it is my opinion that the pinnacle of handgun design was reached quite a long time ago. It began with the Colt Model P ... the Single Action Army if you will. Not too many years later Smith & Wesson brought out their famous "Hand Ejector". And very shortly after that Colt introduced the 1911 .45 ACP semi-automatic pistol.

These 3 handguns set the standard for all that were to follow. All handguns today seek to either copy or else try to improve upon these designs with varying degrees of success or failure. Many of the newer designs are of polymer construction and while some of these work well, they are not the finely constructed firearms of the past. As a friend of mine says of his personal handgun, "It works, it is reliable and accurate, but it has no soul." Handling one of the older handguns from the past, for me, is like a trip in a time machine. The handwork that went into them. The places where that gun has been. The people who used it. It makes me wish the old gun could talk.

But then again, I am an old fart and given to remembering a past that is no longer with us except in things like those old guns. As someone once said, "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."

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Colt .45 SAA circa 1887

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USFA .44 Special Shootists Anniversary Model

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S&W Model 10's ... The heavy barrel gun I bought through the department when I was with the Dept. of Corrections. That was what we were issued as our duty weapon.

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ATI .45 ACP 1911

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Ruger .45 ACP SR1911 Shootists Anniversary Model

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Re: My Opinion

#2 Post by jeepnik » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:26 am

I can find absolutely no fault in your opinion.

I’m here because of the 1911.
I marvel at the smoothness of my pre war Smiths
I find great joy in my Colt SAA

Were the world limited to just these three I’d get along just fine.
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Re: My Opinion

#3 Post by Pete44ru » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:03 am

jeepnik wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:26 am

I can find absolutely no fault in your opinion.

I’m here because of the 1911.

Were the world limited to just these three I’d get along just fine.

+1 - in various different chamberings, of course...…….

I DO think, however, that inexpensive designs have their place, helping those who simply cannot afford a high quality firearm.

.

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Re: My Opinion

#4 Post by Old Savage » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:34 am

With you on those.
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Re: My Opinion

#5 Post by Griff » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:57 am

Your opinion is scholarly, informed and given with a clarity and conciseness that is refreshing and inspiring. The fact that I agree notwithstanding. :)
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Re: My Opinion

#6 Post by wm » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:13 am

I own a few new polymer/striker designs but they don't charm me like the others. Likewise I own two AR-15s but I find greater depth and enjoyment in my older rifles. Reloading for the 5.56mm is a chore but reloading for the 30 WCF is a hobby.

Doing something more efficiently is not always the same as doing something better.

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Re: My Opinion

#7 Post by JimT » Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:21 am

wm wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:13 am
...reloading for the 30 WCF is a hobby.
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Ha! That's what I am doing today. Great quote!

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Re: My Opinion

#8 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:23 pm

The only improvements I've seen worth while are:

1. Double stack magazines for the 1911. They make the grip a better shape for longer fingers, and add even more capacity. My ParaOrd P-14 is the handgun I'd walk into hell with (or maybe my Ruger Redhawk in 44 Mag).

2. The frame-mounted firing pin is more durable for revolvers, and perhaps the 'transfer bar' is a good idea (I've had no problems with them).

But otherwise, like many areas of life, I could deal with what we had 100 years ago and be happy.
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Re: My Opinion

#9 Post by OldWin » Sat Oct 26, 2019 2:00 pm

I agree 100%.

That timeframe was the renaissance of firearms.
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Re: My Opinion

#10 Post by GunnyMack » Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:43 pm

Yep I'm in agreement with 1 exception, the Ruger single action, my choice over a Colt. Be it rimfire or center fire they are much stronger, adjustable sights. Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly!
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Re: My Opinion

#11 Post by JimT » Sat Oct 26, 2019 5:04 pm

GunnyMack wrote:
Sat Oct 26, 2019 4:43 pm
Yep I'm in agreement with 1 exception, the Ruger single action, my choice over a Colt. Be it rimfire or center fire they are much stronger, adjustable sights. Otherwise I agree wholeheartedly!
I like the Ruger single actions also!

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Re: My Opinion

#12 Post by 3leggedturtle » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:34 pm

I always have time for opinions that is in reality, just plain ole good advice! Todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: My Opinion

#13 Post by piller » Sat Oct 26, 2019 7:29 pm

Plastic just doesn't have a soul. Steel and wood do. As far as your choices for the 3 pistols which define what a gun is, well, I don't have wide enough experience to make a valid argument either for or against.
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Re: My Opinion

#14 Post by J Miller » Sat Oct 26, 2019 8:52 pm

JimT,
We are in agreement.

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Re: My Opinion

#15 Post by Super Fly » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:13 pm

Jim...."birds of a feather".......The Good Lord cut us from the same mould......after all, we both help global warming by burning whatever we feel like burning...tires, creosote, plastic.......



Single Action Colt 45 made in 1917
Smith & Wesson Triplelock target made in 1913

Image

Ruger Blackhawk 44 made in 1956 (OK, threw in a Ruger)
Colt Government Model series 70 made in 1976

Image

Ok, what's this? U.S. Military, Unfired, made in 1865....(this fits in with us too)

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Re: My Opinion

#16 Post by 6pt-sika » Sat Oct 26, 2019 10:34 pm

I gotta agree with the 1911's hands down !

As to double actions I'm good with most any of the S&W's that were made with pinned barrels and recessed cylinders . Well I kinda like the older blued Redhawks as well .

Now as to single actions . I have a pretty decent sized hand and I used to really like big bore single's mostly the Ruger ones and of course the Colt's . However now I'm not as enamored with single actions as I once was and to be honest the Blackhawk's and Vaquero's don't feel good to me anylonger . Now with that being said I DO like the Colt Scout's and New Frontier Scouts as well as the older Ruger Single Six's .
IMG_4115.JPG
IMG_0972.JPG
S&W Model 19 circa 1969.jpg
IMG_8930.JPG
IMG_3580.jpg
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Re: My Opinion

#17 Post by Turdyturdy » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:28 am

Well, I have both Ruger Blackhawks and Colts and as far as utility I always use the Rugers. I shoot the same hand loads in the Rugers as my 92 Winchesters. I would not even think of using those loads in a Colt single action. Yes I like the feel and history of an old Colt in my hand but only shoot mild loads in them. Might be moot anyway as my advancing age makes my open sight picture just a blur now. Using my Super RedHawk 454 and Ruger Mark 3 with red dots to hit anything.

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Re: My Opinion

#18 Post by 30-30 » Tue Oct 29, 2019 6:07 pm

... :)
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Re: My Opinion

#19 Post by Lastmohecken » Wed Oct 30, 2019 12:17 am

I love the singleactions; My favorite is probably my Colt second gen, 5.5" .357 mag, but it still looks like new, and was tuned before I bought it, for I assume cowboy action shooting. At any rate it's the slickest operating singleaction I have every owned and shoots dead on. But because it so slick, I baby it more then I do some of my other singleactions, but it still gets holster time.

The Ruger's? Yep, I have a bunch of them in several calibers and barrel lengths, most with fancy grips.

I even have an old Army San Marcos 5.5" 45 Colt, that shoots great.

Double action Smith's; Yep, love them too, and still own several, unfortunately I let far too many slip through my hands over the years, that I wish I had kept.

1911's are my most carried for CCW, preferring the Lightweight Commanders for carry, but have several 5" steel guns, which some have been shot extensively, and some only have moderate use. I have more Colts then anything but also a couple of Springfield's and a Wilson Combat, even a Dan Wesson 10mm.

But Glocks make good utility and pickup guns, and if one should get stolen, they are easy to replace, but have no soul. But even a Smith and Wesson Shield has it's place in my carry stable.

I guess I like them all, but Single action's and 1911's are my favorites, and the ones I enjoy owning and shooting the most.
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Re: My Opinion

#20 Post by M. M. Wright » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:21 am

Jim, what material are the grips on the SAA 45? Buffalo horn? Who made them? I have some walrus ivory that I'd like to put on one of mine is why I ask.
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Re: My Opinion

#21 Post by JimT » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:12 am

M. M. Wright wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:21 am
Jim, what material are the grips on the SAA 45? Buffalo horn? Who made them? I have some walrus ivory that I'd like to put on one of mine is why I ask.
They are Bighorn Sheep by Paul Persinger in El Paso.

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I have one-piece walnut stocks by him on my .44 Special and I have some carved elephant ivories with my ranch brand on one side and a longhorn skull on the other. He did very nice work on all of them.

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Re: My Opinion

#22 Post by Idiot » Wed Oct 30, 2019 11:50 am

The Colt SAA is the only handgun that felt "alive" in my hand. It pointed naturally and within only a couple minutes became an extension of my arm, wrist, and hand. It is too bad they've become expensive to the point of pause. I do like the Ruger version of the same gun, but it isn't quite the same as the old SAA.

I shot my handguns the other day, just routine practice. My short carry self-loader worked and hit the target well enough to engender some confidence, and my poly hi-cap did its job of making a lot of holes. But, my old four inch S&W Model 66 hit exactly were I wanted it to, and while the others were "ergonomic," the old Smith fit into my hand and balanced the sky like it meant it. Yeah, I own and carry some of the new stuff, but if push comes to shove, my old M66 will get the nod and the job done.

I've owned a couple 1911s over the and have had mixed feelings about it. It always seemed heavy, out of balance, and fickle of action. It is a good design and I understand its following. But, my experience has been mixed. That being said, I am looking for another one because a collection isn't complete without a good 1911 in the mix.

JimT, I like your summary of the good stuff, and I too tend to think the pinnacle of design ended a long time ago. Improvements to those designs have continued, but much innovation of today is "nothing new under the sun."
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Re: My Opinion

#23 Post by JimT » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:57 pm

M.M. Wright .. these are the ivories Persinger did for me some years ago ..
bisley6a.jpg
bisley7a.jpg
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Re: My Opinion

#24 Post by J Miller » Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:10 pm

JimT wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:57 pm
M.M. Wright .. these are the ivories Persinger did for me some years ago ..

bisley6a.jpg

bisley7a.jpg
WOW!!!!! :o Gorgeous.

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Re: My Opinion

#25 Post by M. M. Wright » Wed Oct 30, 2019 9:56 pm

JimT wrote:
Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:57 pm
M.M. Wright .. these are the ivories Persinger did for me some years ago ..

bisley6a.jpg

bisley7a.jpg
Very nice! Thanks
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Re: My Opinion

#26 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:54 am

Here's a few of mine
Ruger flat top .357.jpg
Colt and 2 Rugers.jpg
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Re: My Opinion

#27 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:59 am

A few more. I do love singleactions.
single actions 9b.jpg
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Re: My Opinion

#28 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:03 am

Ruger Super Blackhawk
RUGER SUPER BLACKHAWK SQ TRIGGER GUARD 44.jpg
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Re: My Opinion

#29 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:08 am

I love my 1911's, too
Colt Steel Commander Right side.jpg
Colt Blued Commanders.jpg
I prefer Commanders for actual CCW carry.
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Re: My Opinion

#30 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:21 am

photo+1.JPG
This is an old Colt semi-custom, which I used extensively in the 80's mostly, for IPSC and later some IDPA competition. The original satin-nickel finish is mostly gone from the frame due to all of the hard use it saw, but the top end was chrome plated by the same people that Wilson Combat used during the 80's for their Chrome finish guns. It's still a great shooter. I think it's on it's second firing pin and I had to replace the extractor. The only parts on this gun, that every broke on me, after thousands and thousands of rounds down range.

Anyway, just wanted to share, sorry if I posted too much.
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Last edited by Lastmohecken on Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: My Opinion

#31 Post by Lastmohecken » Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:30 am

IMG_1557.JPG
Last post;
This is an old Clark Pin Master from the 80's. I picked it up a couple of years ago. Just stumbled on to the deal. I always wanted one when I shot IPSC back in the 80's but could never afford one then. It was built on a Springfield frame and a Colt Gold Cup Slide.
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Re: My Opinion

#32 Post by Bill in Oregon » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:57 am

Great thread, Jim. Thanks for starting it.
I'm pretty much in full agreement, right down to the heavy-barreled Model 10 Smith. That particular DA revolver always just "felt right."
My current SA is a Ruger Bisley in .45 Colt, but it is heavier and bulkier than the Colt, of course.
Who can improve on John Browning's masterpiece, the 1911? I see yours is made in the Philippines. These seem to get very good marks. (And my sweetie being the child of parents from the Philippines has piqued my interest in those islands with which we have such a close and complicated history).
I pretty much agree that polymer technology has somehow taken some of the soul out of today's duty and concealed carry weapons, but they do have their place.

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Re: My Opinion

#33 Post by JimT » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:17 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:57 am
Great thread, Jim. Thanks for starting it.

Who can improve on John Browning's masterpiece, the 1911? I see yours is made in the Philippines. These seem to get very good marks.
You can buy a brand new ATI .45 1911 for just a little over $300 and it will work great right out of the box. There are a number of companies selling 1911's that are made in the Philippines ... STI's Spartan ...Charles Daly 1911's .... Cimarron's pre-1923 Model 1911...Rock Island .. which are all made by Armscor.

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Re: My Opinion

#34 Post by jeepnik » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:37 pm

Primarily for sentimental reasons this is my current favorite 1911. And it isn't even a lefty.
Image
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Re: My Opinion

#35 Post by 6pt-sika » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:38 pm

JimT wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:17 pm
Bill in Oregon wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:57 am
Great thread, Jim. Thanks for starting it.

Who can improve on John Browning's masterpiece, the 1911? I see yours is made in the Philippines. These seem to get very good marks.
You can buy a brand new ATI .45 1911 for just a little over $300 and it will work great right out of the box. There are a number of companies selling 1911's that are made in the Philippines ... STI's Spartan ...Charles Daly 1911's .... Cimarron's pre-1923 Model 1911...Rock Island .. which are all made by Armscor.
Armscor has several gun ranges in the Philippines and as you might expect I’ve availed myself to a couple of them . Also I might add they make brand new or well maintained RockIsland 1911’s for you to rent/use . First one I visited was in Davao . I rented a 1911 9mm and a 1911 in 22 TCM . I let the wife shoot as well . Bear in mind this was her third time ever firing a gun . And pretty much her first time shooting a centerfire handgun . She had fired an old WWII 1911 leftover at the outdoor range in Cagayan de Oro once , so this time I rented in 9 for her to shoot (I’m no fan of a 9).
67F59951-42E0-4D83-8C19-939B8D0DCD82.jpeg
Anyway I shot both pistols and I did as well with them as I do with my somewhat more expensive Kimber 1911’s here at home .
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Re: My Opinion

#36 Post by Bill in Oregon » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:15 pm

6-pt. -- she looks mighty pleased with her target. Good on ya, bro! 8)

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Re: My Opinion

#37 Post by 6pt-sika » Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:11 pm

Bill in Oregon wrote:
Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:15 pm
6-pt. -- she looks mighty pleased with her target. Good on ya, bro! 8)
Thanks ! This picture was a couple months ago at an indoor archery range in Cagayan de Oro also her first try with a bow !
A3063577-E6A0-45A3-BDC8-005E07A41651.jpeg
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Re: My Opinion

#38 Post by marlinman93 » Fri Nov 01, 2019 8:52 am

I agree on all three handguns, and own all three because they're still viable and enjoyable to shoot. I would only add one more that has been the basis for all sorts of variants based on it's design. The Browning Hi Power.
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Re: My Opinion

#39 Post by .45colt » Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:38 pm

All Good, I love Ruger single actions , it's a good thing I never had a Colt S.A.A. as I don't need to worry about heavy loads. My Grandfathers .45 ACP He carried in Europe is now 100 years old . it still shoots like a new gun.

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Re: My Opinion

#40 Post by piller » Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:44 pm

In the Army, my best with the 1911A1 was 35 out of 42 in the bullseye at 25 meters during timed rapid fire. I did not get a single one out of the 10 ring. That was the first time I had touched that particular pistol. My Company Commander told my Platoon Sergeant to put me in for a tryout for the Post Pistol team. Because I was not one of the people who liked the taste of Kiwi, my Platoon Sergeant made sure that it didn't happen.

I have heard people tell me that the 1911 is not accurate. I have never found it to be anything other than accurate. I don't have a lot of experience with one other than in the Army and my own personal one. All I can say is that they are accurate if you are a decent shot with a pistol. Those with more experience typically can show proof of this.
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JimT
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Re: My Opinion

#41 Post by JimT » Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:32 am

piller wrote:
Fri Nov 01, 2019 11:44 pm
I have heard people tell me that the 1911 is not accurate. I have never found it to be anything other than accurate.
Most firearms are more accurate than the person holding them.
This is not a thing most persons care to admit.
It's easier to blame the machine.

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KWK
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Re: My Opinion

#42 Post by KWK » Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:23 pm

I hate chasing brass so I don't own a semi-auto handgun. For giggles and grins, I have shot rental semis at area indoor ranges. By far the most accurate was a Springfield 1911 in 9 mm. As cheap as factory 9 mm is, I could be tempted to get one, but I like my S&W Model 12 too much. Come to think of it, we seem to be in agreement that handgun development peaked over 100 years ago.

I might make the argument that a smaller action for concealed carry could be added to your list. There's the Kel-Tec P-32, which kind of started the modern craze for a pocket semi-auto, spawning such acts as the LCP. Both were influenced by the Glock of course. Still, no semi-autos for me.

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