First ever 38-55

[redgum]

I have been a fan of the 1894 Winchester since childhood, and I've owned several over the years, but not a 38-55.
Today I saw an ad for an Oliver F Winchester online, and I jumped in and bought it.
It is far from 'çollectable" condition but should be a nice shooter, (I shoot them all, even my '66 Centennial)
There is a 1/4"chip out of the fore-end, the receiver, lever and fore-end cap have been Cerakoted and the butt-stock has been replaced with a regular 94 butt

I have read with some interest about the thinner Starline brass, and how it enables chambering of cartridges
with .380"- .391"bullets for better accuracy, given that the Winchester barrels commonly slug @ .379"
I have a Saeco-Redding mold, and will also acquire a LEE mold, but it's a whole new calibre to me,
so is there any tips/tricks I should be aware of?

[AJMD429]

That will be a 'shooter' not a 'safe queen', which is fine.

There have been lots of posts on the bullet diameter issue on the forum, and someone more familiar with the topic will likely refer you to them and expound on the issue.

[fordwannabe]

As fat a 250-260 grain bullet as you can get to cycle and 10 grains of Unique is a good start. It will PROBABLY not be the last load you try but it will get it up and running with a smile on your face. Congratulations.

[Jay Bird]

I've been loading the 38-55 constantly since 1974 in at least a dozen rifles, probably more. I've dealt with every imaginable chamber and groove dimensions out there, including new reproductions such as yours.

I've stated this many times here and never get any accolades, probably because most people don't know what they are talking about when dealing with old guns which depended on soft lead and black powder and those dimensions carried on through the smokeless powder era right up to this day.

Jacketed bullets will shoot in about any rifle but who wants to shoot 100 rounds a day with jacketed bullets. I like lead which makes you think if you want that gun to be accurate.

I could write a chapter on it dealing with inside neck reaming, chamber opening, but if you want to cut down on thinking and aggravation, do this.........if your chamber won't accept the proper sized bullet to fill out the groove diameter of the barrel , just do what I do....use 30-30 brass which will come out shorter.....or cut down 38-55 brass.....Chamber sticking most always happens on that last bit of lever lift which constitutes the case mouth. If there is .200 thousandths of case mouth missing, it will chamber...and shoot......accurately.......and it won't burn your chamber up.....I use this on rifles that are worth as much as the cars some people drive. ----6

[earlmck]

Just so happens I am also in your shoes redgum. A couple weeks ago I found one of those Oliver Winchesters online. My best friend's wife had asked me to keep an eye out for a good present for him and I easily convinced her that this would do the job. While waiting for the gun to arrive I chased down some of that Starline brass, dies, Williams peep with target knobs, Lyman globe front. I am going over today to help him get the sights on and load up some rounds to try her out.

Meanwhile I also got my first-ever 38/55 -- one of the Marlin "Cowboy"s which one of the good guys over on "Castboolits" was selling. I was out yesterday trying a flock of different loads and by far the most promising was (as per fordwannabe) a fat 250 grain casty ahead of 10 grains Universal ("Universal" appears to me to be identical to "Unique" but meters a little better from my Herter's pistol measure).

So we are both starting on 38/55 adventures. Please keep advised!

Oh yeah, my Marlin Cowboy appears to be a full .380 bore diameter, much to my surprise (I was expecting .375). We haven't slugged friend Butch's new baby; I hope it is at least the .379 so we don't have to mess with two different bullet diameters for the same cartridge (I cast his bullets for him). And the Marlin chambered a .381" bullet just fine using the long Starline brass and bullets that the friendly seller had sent along with the rifle.

[piller]

Sorry to not be able to help. Please keep us posted with your progress. It sounds as if it will be fun.

[marlinman93]

I doubt even the thin Starline brass would allow a bullet as large as .385" or larger to chamber as is in any .38-55 chamber. I've had issues getting a .383" bullet to chamber with Starline brass. I can get them to go, but just barely.

[earlmck]

So we played with friend Butch's Oliver Winchester 38-55 yesterday. I attempted to slug the barrel but was using his micrometer which is kinda' a cheapo so I wasn't real sure of readings. Seems to be .379 to .380 near as I can tell.

Next challenge was with Lee's 38-55 dies. The dang things appear to be made for .375 jacketed bullets and didn't let a .381 cast bullet go through the die neck to contact the seater stem. We'll have to hog that baby out a bit to get adjustable seating. Which we didn't do yesterday -- just went ahead and seated the bullets where the die put them which was about 1/32" shorter than we would have liked them by the time we got a bit of crimp. And they fed just fine in the Oliver Winchester. (This was Starline's short brass which was also $10 a bag cheaper than their long brass). It'll be a few days before we get a chance to do a 38-55 shoot so I don't have any range report. But we got him fixed up with the Williams FP with target knobs and the Lyman globe front which as usual took a fair bit of filing with the triangular file to whittle down to go into the front dovetail.

Sorry about the lack of pictures fellers. Besides forgetting to take my micrometer and brass punch I also forgot to take a camera. But his Olliver looks about like redgum's Oliver except his is all original and unfired (for the moment).

[redgum]

Thank you for sharing your knowledge Guys, I really do appreciate the input.
I would never have thought of that issue with the LEE dies "earlmck" , but it is something I will certainly be looking out for.
Also "Sixgun Sr" another tip I would never have imagined was trimming the brass to allow chambering. Very handy to know.
These tips may well ease some headaches for me down the track.

I have picked up an old Saeco-Redding mold for it, a brass 2 cavity "738 V15" and considering the LEE mold as well.

[Jay Bird]

Redgum......looks like a nice mould and should do well with your newer barrel. Most old 38-55's have worn crowns that necessitate a gas check and if your plain base don't work, try a gas check design.

Keep your velocities from about 1100-1400 and you'll do fine. At the state champs I used 9 grains of Unique with a 270 gr gas check and if I would have held better, I would have had a better score....bad weekend.---6

[rbertalotto]

I have a whole bunch of 38-45 rifles. Every bore diameter is different. From .375 all the way up to .382.....

in my guns with .378 and lower, a winning load is the simple LEE 250 grain bullet cast from 20-1 lead, 9 grains Unique with a 3/4" square piece of one ply toilet paper pushed down to hold the powder against the primer. Won a whole bunch of Buffalo Shoots with that load.

Love the 38-55......Going to my local gun shop later today to pick up a very nice, vintage Winchester 94, take down, 26" bull barrel, button magazine with a perfect bore and near 90% wood and metal......Love those Take Downs

[hfcable]

I had one of those, and the bore was about 375-376, so it worked with modern 375 bullets. my old 38/55s are larger bore.... all of them shoot the barnes 'original' 38/55 bullet well, which is .377...it works well in all of mine

I use lead bullets as well, and I think most of mine are .378 and .379. this is a great cartridge. in a strong [ modern ] 38/55 I have found 32 gr of Reloder 7 with cast GC 255-260 is amazingly effective , even on big caribou.

[Old Savage]

My 38-55 says Marlin 375 on it but it is actually chambered for the 38-55.

[hfcable]

My 38-55 says Marlin 375 on it but it is actually chambered for the 38-55.

and probably will work fine with 375 brass, I suspect the only difference is the stamping on the barrel.

[redgum]

I have a whole bunch of 38-45 rifles. Every bore diameter is different. From .375 all the way up to .382.....

in my guns with .378 and lower, a winning load is the simple LEE 250 grain bullet cast from 20-1 lead, 9 grains Unique with a 3/4" square piece of one ply toilet paper pushed down to hold the powder against the primer. Won a whole bunch of Buffalo Shoots with that load.

Love the 38-55......Going to my local gun shop later today to pick up a very nice, vintage Winchester 94, take down, 26" bull barrel, button magazine with a perfect bore and near 90% wood and metal......Love those Take Downs

Thanks for that rbertalotto,

I will have to slug the bore for myself when I get it home.

The load you describe is right about where I intend to be around 9.0g Unique under a 250g-255g softish bullet.
I use 9.0g Unique under the LEE 170g FN in my 30-30's as well (gas check shank has been machined out).

[Old Savage]

hf, not sure what you are referring to but, I have a Marlin 375 but they are chambered for the 38-55. But it is a Marlin rifle.

[hfcable]

hf, not sure what you are referring to but, I have a Marlin 375 but they are chambered for the 38-55. But it is a Marlin rifle.

just that the barrels for the 375 in marlin and their current 38/55 barrels are probably essemntially the same critter, and you can use the 375 brass in your 38/55 marlin with no problem

[hfcable]

hf, not sure what you are referring to but, I have a Marlin 375 but they are chambered for the 38-55. But it is a Marlin rifle.

just that the barrels for the 375 in marlin and their current 38/55 barrels are probably essenntially the same critter, and you can use the 375 brass in your 38/55 marlin with no problem

unless you use the old style 38/55 which should be too long for that 375 ...who knows for sure, not me

[Old Savage]

I have always thought that to be true. I never thought it was necessary to adhere to 38-55 loading levels in those rifles. Might say, on the same page here.

[hfcable]

I have always thought that to be true. I never thought it was necessary to adhere to 38-55 loading levels in those rifles. Might say, on the same page here.

in fact Ken waters did an article where he worked with a winchester 94 in 38/55 [ not a current vintage one ] and took the loads up small step by step all the way to the factory 375 winchester level.... there was no abnormal case expansion etc he simply said it was not a good idea, as it would cause accelerated wear etc but not dangerous...
in a new vintage marlin 38/55 it would be no problem

[Old Savage]

They are 336 receivers with modern barrel steel. And, I found out the 375 Marlin is actually chambered for rhe long version of the 38-55. In addition when Marlin chambered their 32-20s and 25-20s they chambered them for their old competing versions the 32-21 and the 25-21.

[hfcable]

yes, and the 25/36 which i have a couple of

i have one of the current generation marlin 38/55s and it will take really stout loads, if one feels the need

[hfcable]

yes, and the 25/36 which i have a couple of ....i thought they probably chambers them the same and just changed the barrel stamp, good to know.

i have one of the current generation marlin 38/55s and it will take really stout loads, if one feels the need

[redgum]

I had one of those, and the bore was about 375-376, so it worked with modern 375 bullets. my old 38/55s are larger bore.... all of them shoot the barnes 'original' 38/55 bullet well, which is .377...it works well in all of mine

I use lead bullets as well, and I think most of mine are .378 and .379. this is a great cartridge. in a strong [ modern ] 38/55 I have found 32 gr of Reloder 7 with cast GC 255-260 is amazingly effective , even on big caribou.

Well after being lost in transit for 2 weeks, the rifle has arrived.
First order of business was to slug the bore, which to my pleasant surprise was .3765" and not the .379" I was originally told.
I have acquired the LEE 250g rnfp mold along with the Saeco-738, and will soon get to casting & loading some bullets.
I have read that a bullet of 10-12 Bhn is the optimum for the 9g Unique and 16g SR4759, but looking for any advice on similar loads.
I've got lots of WW 231, WW-WSF, WW 473AA, WW-452AA, WW-540, Trailboss and a few Lbs of 4759
Any advise will be appreciated

[OldWin]

Good for you! I love the 38-55. My first one came hard. Next thing I knew, I had 5.
While it's a huge PIA compared to loading 30-30 & 32WS, it's totally worth it.
With the tighter bore, hopefully you skipped a lot of the problems.

[AJMD429]

This is a cool and informative thread...!

[gundownunder]

Head on over to the Starline website and you can find an article about correct loading of the 38-55, using Starline cases, and not doing a Bubba on the chamber or otherwise stuffing things up.

[redgum]

I've been loading the 38-55 constantly since 1974 in at least a dozen rifles, probably more. I've dealt with every imaginable chamber and groove dimensions out there, including new reproductions such as yours.

I've stated this many times here and never get any accolades, probably because most people don't know what they are talking about when dealing with old guns which depended on soft lead and black powder and those dimensions carried on through the smokeless powder era right up to this day.

Jacketed bullets will shoot in about any rifle but who wants to shoot 100 rounds a day with jacketed bullets. I like lead which makes you think if you want that gun to be accurate.

I could write a chapter on it dealing with inside neck reaming, chamber opening, but if you want to cut down on thinking and aggravation, do this.........if your chamber won't accept the proper sized bullet to fill out the groove diameter of the barrel , just do what I do....use 30-30 brass which will come out shorter.....or cut down 38-55 brass.....Chamber sticking most always happens on that last bit of lever lift which constitutes the case mouth. If there is .200 thousandths of case mouth missing, it will chamber...and shoot......accurately.......and it won't burn your chamber up.....I use this on rifles that are worth as much as the cars some people drive. ----6

Thank you Sixgun Sr. I appreciate your input, especially about trimming the brass.
.
The rifle has finally arrived and after slugging it myself, I have found that the bore is actually closer to .3765"
I have loaded some of the LEE-250g fn bullets that I cast with a soft-ish (11-12 Bhn) alloy.
They measured .377" and some I tumbled in LEE Alox and some I pan lubed.
The cases I have on hand are new Winchester & a few new Starline.
Ideally I would like a slightly bigger bullet diameter, but already I noticed that the rounds made with the Winchester brass,
require a little extra pressure on the lever to get the bolt closed all the way.

I have been thinking since you wrote this, that trimming .100"- .200" off the brass might just be the simplest fix.
I intend on loading cast lead only for this rifle, currently @ 9.0g Unique and 16.0g SR4759
I have a good supply of other powders available (Trailboss + WW-231-540-473AA-452AA-WSF) but I can't find much information
regarding people's experiences with these powders in 38-55

[Jay Bird]

Your welcome Redgum.....hey! Why not just try loading one piece of brass for experimentation.....dummy round........start by trimming off .050 and test it. If it don't work trim off .025 until it does. Don't concern yourself with bullet diameter......if you can get a .379 bullet to fit and chamber itt will most likely be more accurate. The fatter the bullet, the better it centers itself up in the chamber....won't raise pressures with a cast bullet. I load the fattest bullet I can get to chamber, usually .002 over. For 30 cal I size some .312.....my 348 gets em at .351.

Good luck and feel free to ask...I don't know much about many things but I do know cast bullets in old guns. ---6