JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

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wm
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JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by wm »

Has anyone here tried using a bolt action shot gun as truck gun? Run through a basic 'tactical' course with a bolt action shot gun? I'm sure its performance was well behind any reliable pump shotgun but I wonder how it compares to single shot or even a SXS or O/U. A buddy of mine uses a Taurus Judge as a anti car jacking companion. We speculated on the utility of a tube fed 410 bolt action, buck shot or slug & his needs.

Local gun shops were awash in bolt action shotguns a couple weeks ago. Maybe I'll pick one up and mess around with it. Who knows might find a gem. At the very least I will keep myself entertained.

Wm.

P.S. Found a single shot shotgun truck gun for myself. In the back of my own closet of all places! A Rossi combo gun with a 20 gauge barrel and a auxiliary 22lr barrel. Even had its own case. Now I'm thinking about finding a second orphan 22lr Rossi barrel and reaming the chamber out to 22 mag. And maybe a fixing a 2x or 3X scope.

Not sure if it or any other long gun will make it as a regular companion for me in the truck but its a concept and question that gets me to the range to shoot so its worth exploring.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by TraderVic »

Don't recall if I've ever seen a bolt action 410. Marlin made bolt action 12 ga shotguns some time ago, but it has been awhile now.
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JimT
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by JimT »

Mossberg Model 283T

Stevens 410 Model 39A

J. Stevens Model 58A

to name a few bolt action 410's
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by TraderVic »

JimT wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:25 pm Mossberg Model 283T

Stevens 410 Model 39A

J. Stevens Model 58A

to name a few bolt action 410's
Hmmm, good to know. Thanks.
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JimT
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by JimT »

I never had a bolt action ... had several break-open single shots. I used to shoot 30-30's in them when I was younger. Pointed straight up the bullet would go up about 15 feet. Made a lot of noise. I did it to make full metal shells for the 410. Factory loaded 30-30's would often split. Annealed cases that I reloaded would blow out pretty nicely and worked well for shooting round balls.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by Pete44ru »

.

Besides Jim's list, I also remember .410 bolt-actions by:

J G A Anshultz
Birmingham Small Arms (BSA)
Norica
Webley & Scott
Winchester M-41

Also, both Mossberg & Savage/Stevens/Springfield/Riverside made many differently named "house-brand" bolt action .410's for various US chain/department stores.

.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by AJMD429 »

Certainly I know plenty of dudes who use bolt-action rifles for 'truck guns' - also an M1 Carbine (in the 70's - now it would be too valuable to sit in a truck). The bolt actions were usually basic model Savage, Winchester or Remingtons, in chamberings that were 'upgraded' with something 'better' so the older gun got relegated to truck use. One was a nice Springfield '03 that became a 'truck gun' when the owner decided it wasn't as good for whitetail deer as a 300 Win Mag...I'm betting now that Springfield would also not get left in a truck... :D

As for bolt-action shotguns - I've only seen a couple over the years, but they would sure work. The only 'issue' is they aren't quite as compact/flat, but I don't really see that being a problem. They are going to be faster to cycle and get a second shot from.

I've seen people shoot 410 shot shells in 444 Marlins, but don't know I'd want to try the opposite, and if all the newer 'Judge' type 410 self-defense loads don't meet the need, perhaps the metal 410 hulls available could be used to make some nice custom slug loads with.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by vancelw »

I absolutely hate bolt action shotguns.
I can load and shoot faster out of any other action, even a single shot.

To me, any gun with a short barrel is a good truck gun. The simpler the better.
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Ray
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by Ray »

vancelw wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 5:16 am I absolutely hate bolt action shotguns.
I can load and shoot faster out of any other action, even a single shot.

To me, any gun with a short barrel is a good truck gun. The simpler the better.
To many of us, as youngsters, the bolt-actioned shotgun was a step-up from the break-open variety.

For slug and buckshot use, most of them had a rear sight groove of sorts.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by GunnyMack »

The latest American Rifleman has an article about Stogers new Double Defense. A 20 inch barreled 20 ga O/U , set up with picitanny rails on the side ribs, fixed IC chokes and black wood. Very reasonable price tag as well.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by JB »

wm wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:27 pm Has anyone here tried using a bolt action shot gun as truck gun?
My first thought is "why?". I'd much rather have a decent quality single barrel, and even then I'd much rather have a pump or double barrel with automatic ejectors.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by Jay Bird »

Any "truck/Jeep/car gun is invariably going to be a gun that will be needed in a hurry and when your in a hurry and the clock is ticking, your gonna miss. I want fast repeat shots and lots of them......I'll choose a good handgun next to me with a Remington 870 or an AR/M-1/Mini 14 behind the seat. Anything else is wishful thinking if your purpose of a truck gun is defense from 2 or 4 legged varmints....

Never choose junk....a beat up good gun is fine as long as it's reliable.

Your life is valuable...why trust it to a gun that's cheap or may not fit the situation at hand.....used to tell my dad that....he would keep his Colt Detective Spl. UNDER the front drivers seat. I keep mine under my right leg...butt out.
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Grizz
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by Grizz »

I've seen people shoot 410 shot shells in 444 Marlins
I've done that. Funny thing was, I consistently got two concentric rings shooting birdshot at plywood from close range. I imagine the pattern at 10 yards could be 20 feet...
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by marlinman93 »

Marlin offered the .410 shotgun in a bolt action single shot Model 60G and 61G back in the 60's.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by marlinman93 »

Marlin offered the .410 shotgun in a bolt action single shot Model 60G and 61G back in the 60's.
Pre WWI Marlins and Singleshot rifles!
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wm
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by wm »

JB wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:34 am
wm wrote: Wed Sep 25, 2019 3:27 pm Has anyone here tried using a bolt action shot gun as truck gun?
My first thought is "why?". I'd much rather have a decent quality single barrel, and even then I'd much rather have a pump or double barrel with automatic ejectors.
As I stated in my post I have no doubts that a pump is better choice but the original post I cited was JIMTs use of single shot and I was questioning if a bolt action might be a different answer to the same question. A single shot is simpler, more robust in most cases, lighter, and more compact. The bolt action shot gun would be as quick to engage from low ready position (slipping off saftey on bolt vs cocking hammer on single shot) and it should be quicker to operate to bring a second (or third shot) into the fight. Particularly if you have a mounted flashlight on shot gun and want to maintain light on the target.

That of course assumes flawless feeding in the bolt action which anyone who has shot an Enfield or Mosin Nagant knows is not necessarily the case with any rimmed cartridge from a box magazine (rim lock). There are of course tube fed bolt action shotguns and those might have some advantages in feeding as well as 'topping off' during an engagement.

All of this conjecture at this point and that is why I wondered if anyone had actually tested this concept on the clock. Or in drills. Or in classes.

And frankly that is what I aim to do. I am assembling a small collection of test shotguns. So far there is a 12 gauge Baikal coach gun (SXS) which is my personal choice for house shotgun, 20 gauge Rossi single shot, Mossberg 410 bolt action, and a 12 gauge Iver Johnson Champion single. I'm intent on adding at least two more shotguns and then devising a couple of simple drills, use a timer, and see what I find out.


Once I find out which is the best options then I'm going to run the same drills against my Remington 870. I'm certain the 870 is better but how much? If I can hit two IDPA targets at 7 yards in 2 seconds with a pump but do likewise with a bolt action in 2.7 how under gunned am I?

Wm.

P.S. This will give you some idea of the tests I am going to run. Except paper instead of steel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjThckYqBQ
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by gamekeeper »

I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your testing........ 8)

A truck gun to me is one that sits in a truck unloved until required and after bouncing around in dust and fluff for months is expected to work, my single barrel guns never let me down but then I never required multiple shots for just four legged vermin.
I have had problems with bolt action shotguns feeding reliably although I do like hunting with them.
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wm
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by wm »

gamekeeper wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:26 pm I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your testing........ 8)

A truck gun to me is one that sits in a truck unloved until required and after bouncing around in dust and fluff for months is expected to work, my single barrel guns never let me down but then I never required multiple shots for just four legged vermin.
I have had problems with bolt action shotguns feeding reliably although I do like hunting with them.

You allude to a important element …… we all know what a truck gun is FOR OURSELVES. But each of us probably defines that a little differently.

My buddy with the 410 has some physical impediments he is mindful of and his travel has him driving into Flint, Michigan (high crime/low police presence) a couple times a week but otherwise he is gentlemen farmer in the wild suburbs of Saginaw county. My other buddy is a retired LEO who works when the mood strikes him as a handy man. He occupies a lot of his free time bird hunting. His version of a truck shot gun is different. And as for my working stiff self I see a truck gun as a 'get home' aid. The most vivid (if a little fringy) scenario is a TEOWTWAWKI and I need to walk 50 miles home as trouble free as humanly possible (i.e. cross country & through some woods).

Farmer goes with a 410 to match his side arm & ammo. Would like to find a lever action.
Cop goes semi auto 12 gauge & turkey/bird shot.
Me …… not sure yet. But right now 20 gauge single shot (& buck shot) partly because my car sits unattended for long periods so inexpensive, unappealing to bad guys firearms offer an advantage. Most professional or semi professional bad guys, if they found it in my truck, wouldn't risk jail time on a weapons charge for a single shot 20 gauge because they don't want that and it brings them next to nothing selling it.

For one of my coworkers …… its a AK Pistol with a brace. You could say he lives by the credo of 'if you bring the rain and I'll bring the thunder and lighting' or as he says de-escalation is for pussys. A different co worker chose a pump action Remington rifle in 243. We work third shift & he traps and hunts on his way home. It was recently stolen out of his truck while he was fishing.

Nuance and circumstances greatly impact anyone's choices.
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Re: JIMT post about using a single shot shot gun as a truck gun got me wondering ....

Post by mickbr »

The further the range, separation of targets, and recoil of the gun, the more a bolt action catches up on the other action types. At a certain point its not much slower than semi or pump as the re-acquring new target gives you time to work the action. You need sufficient practice though and this more applies to rifles, than shotguns or handguns which are always closer range. I support that where a guy is more used to bolt actions,he might be served choosing a bolt action. Its when the chips are down and you are sweating buckets, you want muscle memory to carry the day. If 99.9% of your hunting and handling adrenalin even hunting a deer is with bolt action, one advantage is that steadiness will be there when you are defending your life. Not to say choose a bolt action for SD, just get practice with whatever you carrying. I can say from contract work after the military in africa and the middle east dont under estimate anything. Some guy who knows what he is doing is a nightmare to deal with regardless what the action is.
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