Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

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Idiot
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Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#1 Post by Idiot » Mon Sep 09, 2019 5:39 pm

All I can say is "wow!" This new 6.5 Creedmoor is something else. I hear of guys killing elk way beyond 1,000 yards with it. When it first came out, it made me yawn. I thought, didn't we already have a 6.5X55 and 260 Remington? But the more I read about it, and ignore it ballistics, the more (as in creed - more) I realize just how wrong I was. This thing is amazing. When coupled with the new Very Low Drag bullets, you can shoot a load that is at least 600 fps less than a 270 Winchester and it will still drop less at half a mile than the older useless cartridge. And since this cartridge only comes in new rifles, which are more accurate because they have two stage triggers or at least a Glock dangly thing on the trigger, you have a much greater chance of not only hitting an animal beyond 1,000 yards, but head shooting it - a heart shot is too easy. I would have never thought we could come this far, or shoot that far. I want one so bad, I think I'll sell a couple old Winchester 92s in 25-20 I've got stored way. Heck, maybe even get rid of an old 99 Savage in 30-30 and get a really good Creedmoor rifle, one I can attach a night vision scope to so I can place my laser dot sight right on that big Texas pig when the moon goes behind the clouds. These relics can only shoot short range anyway, and I know they aren't accurate with their single-stage triggers. See you in the classifieds.

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#2 Post by piller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:11 pm

I am wondering about a Creedmore myself. Heck, I read that you don't have to aim cause they aim themselves.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#3 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:26 pm

It is interesting how some combinations 'just work well together'.

Sadly, I do see people trying to hunt out beyond 500 yards, and the problem is that even with a top-notch gun and ammo and shooter, there is a huge chance that the animal will simply MOVE far enough during the long bullet transit time that that wonderful cranial shot just takes the front half of the nose off, or that great heart shot becomes a small-bowel shot.

Such long shots are great practice and fun target shooting, and if the target is a bad-guy, something snipers should do, because rather than the goal of a humane kill on an innocent game animal, the goal then is incapacitating an evil person, and it matters not whether they suffer or not as long as they are out of the battle.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#4 Post by piller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:30 pm

No arguments with what you said Doc, but I was just making smart alec remarks about the near mythical accuracy which the Creedmore is being credited with.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#5 Post by Sixgun Jr » Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:49 pm

I'm involved in a fair amount of long range shooting competitively .....some out to 1000 yards......regularly out to 500 meters. I'm around guys who have $3000 rifles who junk their factory barrels and have $1000 barrels installed and $2,000 Nightforce scopes. Most all,of these rifles all chambered in 6.5 Creedmore and .260 Remington. On our rifles we will have 1 pound triggers with some guys having 8 ounce triggers.

The best of benchrest apparatus is bought to hold the rifle rock solid and ya know something....yo ought to see what a 5-10 mph wind does to the best of low drag bullets even at the relatively short distance of 500 meters.....let alone 1000.

The average guy who practices with a good setup should never attempt a shot on an animal past 300 yards. Field conditions are apples and oranges compared to benchrest conditions not to mention the first shot out of a cold barrel may not fly into the same point of impact as it did when you were sighting it in under different atmospheric conditions.----6
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#6 Post by piller » Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:52 pm

My longest shot was 150 meters on a Red Stag at night while hunting in Poland. It was with a .30-06 Rem 700 and 180 grain Nosler Partitions loaded to 1 grain below what Hodgdon lists as max with H4350. The shot by moonlight was tough, but the rifle, Nikon Scope, and ammunition all gave me the confidence to make the shot. In daylight it would have been almost guaranteed. 150 meters with that setup is something pretty easy. In the Army I used to hit 1100 meter human torso targets using an M60 and open sights. Huge difference in expected outcome.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#7 Post by Idiot » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:19 am

Of course my post was a bit tongue in cheek, laced with the frustration of how easy it is to convince folks wearing a bright red shirt that it is instead a blue shirt. I was looking for a long range rifle recently and every magazine article and every gun shop (except one) tried to convince me that the 6.5 Creedmoor was more than it actually is. After all my research it came down to 7MM Remington Magnum using 130 grain bullets at around 3,400 fps or a 300 Magnum using the same grain bullet at around 3,500 fps. Yep, they shed velocity pretty quick, and there were not as efficient past 800 yards than those using heavy for caliber VLD bullets. But out to no more than 500 yards, which is a long ways, they shot much flatter than any moderately cased 6.5MM alive. I ended up buying a 300 Weatherby Magnum because it was used with very little if any use, in great condition and cheap. It is in the Vanguard variety and of older make so it still has a decent single-stage trigger and a handy 24 inch barrel. I will load to 3,500 fps and it will shoot very flat out to any range I can reliably hit anything.

I think the 6.5 Creedmoor is a good cartridge, the same way I think the 6.5X55 and 260 Remington are good cartridges. But I've already got a decent M336 chambered in 30-30 and a M70 chambered in 308 and either can do what the Creedmoor does at any distances I care to shoot. And if they can't, my good old 30/06 surly can.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#8 Post by vancelw » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:33 am

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#9 Post by GunnyMack » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:35 am

There is something to the 6.5 bore, as we all know but I too don't like the fact that the hype of shooting game at 500+ is NOT ethical! If you notice all these shows that are on the 'hunter' always shoots the animal in the spine! Bullets don't perform well enough to take a solid heart/lung and then find that critters blood trail. Nope I don't like it! But I do like the 6.5!
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#10 Post by Blaine » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:14 pm

Isn't the Creedmoor advantage the fact that it's a short action-sized brass? An "X" grain 6.5 bullets going "X" fps are all the same, but the length makes it handier in several different platforms....(or, not... :lol: :lol: )
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#11 Post by .45colt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:42 pm

My Son in Law bought an inexpensive Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor this summer. they don't have much money for a rifle. I got rid of the cheap rings it came with and put some steel rings on it with Loctite. it has the accutrigger . it is shooting itty bitty groups, even with the cheapo scope it came with. Remington core-lokt 140 grain ammo is $19.98 a box at wally world. hardly any recoil at all. I think it is a lot of rifle for less that $400.

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#12 Post by vancelw » Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:47 pm

.45colt wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:42 pm
My Son in Law bought an inexpensive Savage in 6.5 Creedmoor this summer. they don't have much money for a rifle. I got rid of the cheap rings it came with and put some steel rings on it with Loctite. it has the accutrigger . it is shooting itty bitty groups, even with the cheapo scope it came with. Remington core-lokt 140 grain ammo is $19.98 a box at wally world. hardly any recoil at all. I think it is a lot of rifle for less that $400.
Haven't you heard? Walmart does not support your right to own legal firearms. They announced they will no longer sell pistol or short-barrelled rifle ammuntion (whatever that means). Any more to say would belong in the Politics forum, but any ammo I buy comes from anywhere else but there.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#13 Post by .45colt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:47 pm

"Haven't you heard? Walmart does not support your right to own legal firearms. They announced they will no longer sell pistol or short-barrelled rifle ammuntion (whatever that means). Any more to say would belong in the Politics forum, but any ammo I buy comes from anywhere else but there."
................................................................................. Sorry Vance , I just passed along what I saw. the last time I was 50 miles away in Erie Pa I bought ammo for the Creedmoor at Field&Stream and paid a lot more. An early Christmas present for My son in law. Now We can All be HAPPY.

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#14 Post by vancelw » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:49 pm

.45colt wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:47 pm
"Haven't you heard? Walmart does not support your right to own legal firearms. They announced they will no longer sell pistol or short-barrelled rifle ammuntion (whatever that means). Any more to say would belong in the Politics forum, but any ammo I buy comes from anywhere else but there."
................................................................................. Sorry Vance , I just passed along what I saw. the last time I was 50 miles away in Erie Pa I bought ammo for the Creedmoor at Field&Stream and paid a lot more. An early Christmas present for My son in law. Now We can All be HAPPY.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#15 Post by .45colt » Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:54 pm

As I said Now We can All Be Happy........................................................ :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#16 Post by TraderVic » Tue Sep 10, 2019 5:52 pm

Seeing how this is a Leverguns site and forum, Henry makes a levergun chambered for 6.5 Creedmoor. Their Long Ranger model.

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#17 Post by piller » Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:40 pm

I have heard mixed reviews on the accuracy of the Long Ranger from Henry. Does anyone on here have experience with them? I trust the folks on here to give better reviews than many of the places on the internet do. No financial incentive to gloss over the problems for one instance.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#18 Post by AJMD429 » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:21 pm

If you look at the physics of it, I think that between 22 caliber and 50 caliber, the exterior ballistics aren't much different due to the projectile/air molecule size difference being so similar, and the laminar flow and all that being so similar. So the real issue in terms of trajectory and stability are bullet profile, spin, and sectional density, which theoretically can be pretty similar if all is proportional.

So the first factor is "Does someone make a bullet in 0.XX" caliber that is a low-drag, high-BC, one...?"

Then, the maximum velocity attainable will depend on the case capacity, which will determine overall recoil and gun size. Overall, the highest supersonic velocity is 'better' if one can accurately shoot at that recoil level, or carry a gun with the necessary weight and size to handle it, unless one decides to forego the transonic destabilization and keep the entire trajectory subsonic, in which the closest velocity approaching mach one will be better than lesser ones.

So in theory you just need two cartridges for each caliber of rifle (handguns have other ergonomic considerations), to cover all potential needs (for supersonics with less-than-maximal range needs or flat-trajectory needs, smaller case sizes could be more efficient, but not necessarily superior, if one could find the right powder/load).

One could create a pair of subsonic/supersonic cartridges for 223, 250, 284, 308, 338, 358, 408, 430, 458, and 500 calibers, or a smaller selection, and 'cover everything'.

If we were starting from scratch, it would be interesting to see what would develop with today's technology.

(maybe 'pistol' 'carbine' and 'rifle' cartridges in 25, 30, 35, 40, 45, and 50 calibers - 18 in total - would "do it all"....!)

BUT - as it really is, there are all sorts of other factors, like what bore sizes became 'standard' and what action lengths - so that there are very popular long, streamlined bullets for 338 and 284 calibers, but not really for 358, yet there is no REASON 358 couldn't do everything that 338 can with just more recoil, but less than 408.

So it is interesting to watch manufacturers jockey position with relatively-similar cartridges, and see how things like too-slow-a-twist doomed the 6mm Remington, but the lesser-capacity and theoretically slightly inferior 243 Winchester sailed ahead.

To me, it is all fun to watch, and sometimes fun to play with, but the REALITY for me is that I am not a good enough shot to out-shoot the difference between 308 Win and 30-06, or 6.5 Creadmoor vs 7mm Rem... :oops:

Heck on some days I can't outshoot the difference between 6mm Remington and 9mm Luger.... :lol:
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#19 Post by Sixgun Jr » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:41 pm

Pretty well said doc...the real issue comes with ballistic coefficient. The next issue is case capacity......it would be nothing to take a 50 BMG, size it down to 6.5 and have a flat shooting gun to 1500 meters but.........your gonna burn out the barrel in 20 shots along with dislocating your shoulder. Your also gonna start flinching after three rounds. The 6.5 Creedmore has the perfect balance between ballistic coefficient, case capacity, and velocity. .....therefore, long barrel life and pleasant recoil.

Look at some of these hot shot long range cartridges like the 7mm STW or the 30-378....great hunting cartridges but you pay for it with increased recoil and short barrel life..maybe 500 rounds..tops......the 6.5 x 284 was really hot for awhile until guys...several at our club......lost the gilt edge accuracy after 1000 rounds......and 1,000 rounds ain't nothing for a competitive shooter.

I could go on for another hour but you get the picture. Remember, I don't read this stuff...I do it.-----6
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#20 Post by jkbrea » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:44 pm

As a range master I see the variety of different guns every day. I also get to shoot other people's guns quite frequently :D . I ended up buying a Ruger long-range Precision in 6.5 Creedmoor. It is a very comfortable shooting round. I hunt elk with a 30-06, but I think I will take this Ruger on an antelope hunt next week. It's heavy but I'll be putting around in my side by side ATV.
I had the opportunity to go long range shooting on a private Ranch and was able to hit a 38 inch plate at a little over a mile,1790 yards, using 147gr match ammo. I put three rounds on it quickly before the wind shifted and threw it way off.
A few members here have shot elk and moose with the 6.5 Creedmoor. Not my choice for big game but it's all about shot placement.

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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#21 Post by Idiot » Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:57 pm

Wow! You guys have more brains than I have times 10. My solution to long range was sending a bullet of enough weight and solid construction at the fastest possible velocity from the handiest accurate rifle I could pick up for cheap - and be happy. And I am. Now all I look forward to is for the season to begin and to take in that special smell of deer steaks frying in nest of onions with a hint of fresh hot coffee in the background.
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Re: Gotta Get a 6.5 Creedmoor

#22 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:43 pm

Idiot wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:57 pm
My solution to long range was sending a bullet of enough weight and solid construction at the fastest possible velocity from the handiest accurate rifle I could pick up for cheap - and be happy.
That pretty much works....!

We can pontificate and theorize and speculate and spend money all year long, but the dude that puts a decent bullet in the vitals gets the steak dinner, and the deer don't care about ballistic coefficients... :lol:
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