The Gun Room

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:57 am

Fred....excuse me for absent mindedness.....it's getting CRAZY CRAZY here.......

Are you asking why Ruger is calling their Vacaro a Vacaro because their cylinder is stronger? Is this a trick question?

They are calling it a Vacaro because it was developed during the hightimes of the cowboy action shooting and a Vacaro is
A Mexican cowboy....or like I like to say......a beaner cowboy.---6

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 am

Oh boy.....won another page....win...win....win.......that's all I do.......

Yea.....I like to win.....me and mom are siting on a mini warehouse of food and other essentials. Well, not a lot, but enough for several months, excluding meats and perishables.....I don't give a flying F what the "elitists" tell us about hoarding food as to hoarding it...they say, "leave enough for everybody" Ha! I KNOW how people are and the average NICE GUY will cut your F ing throat to feed himself or his family...............IN TIMES OF PERIL MAN REVERTS BACK TO JUNGLE STATUS.......

During WW2 there wasn't a pet to be found in Berlin.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:06 am

Friend of my wife's emailed her a picture of our local Costco......LINE AROUND THE BUILDING.....EMPTY MEAT SHELVES.....AND THERES ONLY SOMETHING LIKE 22 CASES IN THE GREAT NO RED FLAG STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA!!!!!!!----6

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:09 am

Os I'm sure the cylinder steel is exactly the same formula of steel and same heat treat as the SBH, Redhawk. Plenty strong.
The old colts blowing up were poorer steel, lacking proper through hardening , hot rodding. The 44 special had more than its fair share of blow ups, I do believe Keith was blowing them up regularly leading to the development of the magnum case.
Heat treatment is a 2 part system ( normally) you first harden said product then temper to a specific temperature to give a certain strength.

Went to lowes this morning, store was kind of busy, depot was too. I need a new chalk line- didnt like anything I saw. Looking for a high gear ratio chalk line, might have to order one..

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:10 am

Oh forgot!!! One of the last 1892 actions to leave the Winchester plant in the form of the Model 65 in 32-20. I did shoot this one ....one box of 50 at a match...believe that's all that was ever out of it.....it's still tight as to tolerances.......I like to call these guns "brand new money".......could very well be a parts guns from the factory as it's one of the last serial numbers recorded at the factory........well, it's off to get dirty at the pond......to find more treasures.

harry · Post by **harry** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:39 am

“That 44 Spl is New Vaquero size but it is marked Vaquero. My question.: are they rating cylinder strength and not frame size since the cylinder walls are thicker than a .45 they mark New Vaquero?”

I may be off here but I think OS is asking “new” vs “vaquero” , what makes his just a vaquero.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:40 am

People have been calling me racist and thin skinned for quite a while.

LOOK WHAT THOSE SLANT EYED CHINKS SAID TODAY......."WE WILL TURN YOUR COUNTRY INTO A SEA OF CORONAVIRUS".

I've never liked many groups of people, even within our own, as most people stay civil out of ingrained brainwashing and with due respect to the law, religion, and to fellow man.........I know different....I've seen what those animals I used to work with did in times of fears that the plant was going to shut down.........can only imagine what they will do when they have to feed their bellies.

It's time for the BIG BOY TO COME OUT!!!!!!

Oh boy! what is happening is what I've trained my whole life for.................this is better than a line of Coke!...

(Don't take me that serious, only trying to entertain in bad times as laughter calms the nerves...for real guys)----6

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:42 am

Six, congrats on your continued page dominance, not a trick question. The Vaquero is larger in frame and cylinder than the New Vaquero which is marked New Vaquero. The .44 Special version of New Vaquero/Colt size is marked Vaquero implying a greater strength level. It has thicker cylinder walls. I wonder if the Vaquero moniker .44 Spl is due their recognition that it is stronger than the New Model size .45 Colt.

Gunnyman. Frreedom arms every so often blows up one of their 454s. According to a former employee who used to be here they do it by progressively seating heavy bullets deeper. Now on to Elmer. I don't think his testing applies to much modern testing. Now, if anyone has blown up a .major brand 44 Spl since I renewed my interest about 1988, I have not seen it reported. I have loaded my Model 24 to about 1250 fps, no pressure complaints. Since it is the cylinders that blow that would seem to be the critical strength part.

Paco, in his book shows a Uberti .45 Colt that blew up when a friend put a rifle load in it. The cylinder came apart and took the top strap.

If Freedoms will blow of course anything lesser will.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:48 am

harry wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:39 am “That 44 Spl is New Vaquero size but it is marked Vaquero. My question.: are they rating cylinder strength and not frame size since the cylinder walls are thicker than a .45 they mark New Vaquero?”

I may be off here but I think OS is asking “new” vs “vaquero” , what makes his just a vaquero.

Yea....maybe your right.....my mind is in outer space ......the road in front of my house is a cut through between two major highways and is almost always very busy.........Its Friday, usually the worst day....and I've only seen a smattering of cars.

Anyway, back to the "Vacaro". I once owned an extremely early Vacaro with a two digit serial number....the Colt sized Vacaro, later one........sizing it up I concluded it was a well built strong gun...probably better than a Colt.......I would not concern myself with any normal to midrange load coming out of it.......it will handle about anything...but the recoil and longevity would diminish from the larger framed Vacaro.

I have a mess of early flattops in 44 magnum which are no more beefier than than a Vacaro .....

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:05 pm

Old Savage wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:42 am The Vaquero is larger in frame and cylinder than the New Vaquero which is marked New Vaquero. The .44 Special version of New Vaquero/Colt size is marked Vaquero implying a greater strength level. It has thicker cylinder walls. I wonder if the Vaquero moniker .44 Spl is due their recognition that it is stronger than the New Model size .45 Colt.

Ok Fred.....it's sinking in...your "New Vacaro" in 44 Spl is simply marked "Vacaro". I don't believe that's implying anything.....

I think it's a factory mistake. Are the MAIN frame sizes between the new Vacaro and the Vacaro the same with the difference being in the grip frame and barrel contour? I don't have any here to compare.

If what I said as to frame size being the same then Ruger used a Vacaro frame to build your NEW Vacaro 44 Spl.

Cylinder holes are relative...it takes more powder to achieve equal pressures in a larger case......it's the surrounding steel that make the difference along with case strength. Think of a 32-20 in a fat cylinder, like your Buckeye......overload it and the case is gonna blow and melt out the openings where a 45 is gonna pop the cylinder sides to the next country......

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:26 pm

In Philly 7 people were just shot fighting over the last box of Chiclets and two strands of licorice.......fake news..I made that up.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:28 pm

harry wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:39 am“That 44 Spl is New Vaquero size but it is marked Vaquero. My question.: are they rating cylinder strength and not frame size since the cylinder walls are thicker than a .45 they mark New Vaquero?”
I may be off here but I think OS is asking “new” vs “vaquero” , what makes his just a vaquero.

I seem to recall reading recently that the New Vaquero is the same size as the Colt SAA, and its' rated strength is similar. They dropped the marking "New Vaquero" in favor of the simpler "Vaquero"... it being out of production.

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:41 pm

The frame size is larger on the .45 Vaquero than the .45 New Vaquero which is marked New Vaquero. The .44 Spl marked Vaquero is on the smaller frame size of the .45 New Vaquero which is the same as a Colt.

It seems apparent to me that a .44 Spl cylinder in the smaller size would take more pressure than a .45 Colt in that same size cylinder.

I have the cylinder measurements for all these variations.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 1:08 pm

Ok Fred...I'm learning...never knew of the frame size.......sure, thicker walls lead to more strength but.........it's not needed as who shoots 44 magnum pressures in a 44 Spl? Even high pressure 44 Spl's come no where near the pressures of a 44 magnum. It's just a slightly more reassuring margin of error kind of thingy with the thicker cylinder walls....

The days of old steel are gone.....I've READ where it only takes like 1/10th of an inch to contain 40K with today's steels....---6

Just talked to my son......not much better in Colorado than it is here........

My area of geography is probably the most worse in the nation.......cutthroats in the best of times........downright savages in these times...........AND MOST OF IT IS IMAGAINED.......

Writing this I just saw a pick up truck with very loud exhaust fly by on our 25 mph road at at about 80......---6

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:08 pm

Measurements of cylinder wall thickness and between the cylinders are very close between the full size Vaquero in
.45 Colt and the smaller frame 44 Spl labeled Vaquero. I think I will conclude that cylinder strength is similar.

Though, for my own loading I do not approach the high end for the 44 Spl. Hornady #2 lists 44 Spl loads up to 1150 fps from a 4 3/4" Colt SAA. That of course has similar cylinder measurements.
.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:25 pm

When John Gallagher and I did my single six .32 change to 44 special we made the first cylinder and got the wall thickness a bit thin- made a second and all was well in the world. I have not shot anything hot through it except a box of 20 Silvertips. All else has been very mild cast.

OS your new vaquero will handle just about anything you would care to shoot out of it.

On a different note, had a guy at school that developed a percussion nipple with a check valve in it.he made a new bolt for a Mauser 98 and made up a smooth bore barrel. He was putting IIRC 250-300 gr of FFFg behind 2 3,4,5 patched roundballs- neither the Mauser or his nipple failed. I wonder why he never tried to market that...?

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:54 pm

Gunny, not sure we are on the same page the NEW VAQUERO is a Colt sized Ruger in .45 Colt. Advice is to restrict it to standard .45 Colt loads. Its cylinder wall measurements are not close to the 44 Spl Vaquero.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:55 pm

Ok, been too much other stuff to read, the Vaquero is a slightly smaller frame if I'm not mistaken ? As always, sane loads will be fine. Personally I usually stick to just above minimum charges, powder lasts longer and I dont my hands dont hurt when I'm done. Really like 44 special out of my 6" 629- very pleasant !

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:04 pm

Old Savage wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 4:54 pm Gunny, not sure we are on the same page the NEW VAQUERO is a Colt sized Ruger in .45 Colt. Advice is to restrict it to standard .45 Colt loads. Its cylinder wall measurements are not close to the 44 Spl Vaquero.

Fred....it will handle strong loads....Ruger just does not want people putting loads in it that some people use in their Blackhawk......i.e...."oh well, it is a Ruger, I'll just shoot my Blackhawk loads in my New Vacaro".......THOSE LOADS COULD HAVE A PROBLEM IN THE NEW VACARO.....Cntiniously shooting heavy loads in the New Vacaro would surly beat it down faster and Ruger would get a bad rep.

Americans are not known for having common sense.

Take the Maximum.....I have maybe 2500 rds out of mine with minimal gas cutting. My guess is I have another 30,000 rds left in the gun.........right after the Max came out people were shooting extremely heavy loads with 125 gr bullets which caused the gas cutting. Rather than attempting to educate Americans on the loads, they just took it off the market.---6

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:05 pm

This afternoon I spent a couple of hours moving heavy rocks around the pond..........came up to the house, washed off the mud and walked in.......my wife says her sister who has 7 people living in the house called and said they can't find toilet paper....they are down to four rolls. Good guess that will be gone this weekend.

So I took an inventory here and between four different areas I only found 51 rolls! Dang! I told my wife to tell her sister to get the wash rags ready and just rinse em with warm water, use them, rerinse, and dip the rag in a bucket of water with some bleach in it.......seems they are out of bleach too..mmmmmm

Geeze....they drive trucks and SUV's that cost more than what I paid for my house...............

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:25 pm

Ok, I am thinking a visual may be helpful here, not on 6s current issue but on the .45 Colt Vaquero/New Vaquero issue.

So ... here is a picture of the New Vaquero vs the Vaquero cylinders i am betting the Vaquero/Ruger only loads should be avoided in the New Vaquero.

The Colt size 44 Spl Vaquero cylinder thicknesses are very similar to the Ruger Vaquero 45 Colt cylinder thicknesses. So it would seem the levels are likely similar.

I will not be assuming the New Vaquero cylinder is similarly robust. .

Post by **Old Savage** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:41 pm

Small cylinder comparison - 44/45.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:03 pm

Yes Fred...visuals help for the unknowledgable....sure, I'd be more confident with the 44 Spl for the same reasons Elmer Keith was.......the new steels we have make a huge difference......

I still would not worry with either cylinder using any sane loads.

You need to shoot those el primo guns.....I can smell the freshness of those cylinders 3,000 miles away.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:22 am

Fred, Wise move to not consider robust loads for the New Vaquero... (and, jeesse, can we please spell it correctly!). I don't care how much better new steels are than the older Colts... Even my new Colt isn't up to have such robust loads put thru them. There's a certain point where giving folks advise to push loads beyond the reasonable is irresponsible.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:26 am

Griff, even the 44 Mag in the 29 is more that I care for at my end. I like rounds at the .44 Spl, 45 ACP, 45 Colt level. No charm for me in hand cannons. Handguns that operate at 35,000-45,000 lbs/cup are outside my taste, though I have them, .327 Federal, 357 mag., 41 mag, 44 mag, 454. I load them all down. Jack Huntington of Grass Valley is a good friend and used to work out of a local gun shop. He was building various .475s and 50s for African hunting which another friend of his was using for up to water buffalo. There were many pictures around the shop. Jack guided me to my first antelope kill. He was using his handguns for antelope hunting in Wyoming. At the time Ryan Breeding worked out of that shop and it was owned by Ron Carmichael. I used test fire some rifles and pistols for Jack.

I don't think the wrist was made for those forces, at least not my wrists.

I do not think the Ruger 44 Spl Vaquero and New Model Blackhawk terminology are factory errors in those small frames. Rather it appears a recognition appropriate to cylinder strength. Often my curiosity exceeds mere practicality. I do certainly appreciate the discussion with knowledgeable people.

Certain cartridges like the 44 Spl,, 45 Colt and .257 Roberts are factory and SAAMI pressure restricted to point not necessary in strong modern guns.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:35 am

Six, you are right about the shooting. I have a number of projects including the 32-20 that should be attended to. Let us see how far this apparent Corona over reaction goes.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:07 am

New copy of Shooting Times arrived yesterday, interesting article about Turnbull and his 475 cartridge, seems like it is Big Medicine on a different level... Gotta read the article toget the whole scoop I guess. Says Ruger made a run of #1s in 475, can't find em now! I really enjoy reading about oddball cartridges, so bored with 223,308,6.5s. Nice to see the old obscure stuff as well as something specialized like the 475.

As I mentioned OS, if you stick to sane loads you won't have any problems with either of those rugers, many thousands of rounds down range without a problem.

Why does Piglosi always look like a deer in the headlights ? Are her eyelids stitched to the back of her skull? I think if you slapped her in the back out her head her eyes would pop out of her skull!

Oh well gotta get my coffee and then get ready for bird blasting... Tomorrow is the last day of the season.

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:22 am

I'm with you OS. I don't care to pound myself with heavy loads. I like big, slow moving bullets. I find they will do 90% of the jobs that need doing and are much easier to manage.
I find if I need a handgun with that kind of power, I'd much rather carry a small rifle.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:12 am

OldWin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:22 amI'm with you OS. I don't care to pound myself with heavy loads. I like big, slow moving bullets. I find they will do 90% of the jobs that need doing and are much easier to manage.
I find if I need a handgun with that kind of power, I'd much rather carry a small rifle.

Exactly!

Post by **Old Savage** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:23 am

A friend with a 460 snubby.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:57 am

Yea Gunny....I noticed that on Pelosi.....you can see her skull eye sockets...disgusting old sea hag.....she ought to climb into a casket and close the lid.

Keep those 460's....I shot one and it cured me of wanting one. Don't like any big bore handgun over 1100, preferring to stay 850-1000....... ...357's don't bother me at any velocity unless the barrel is short.

Well....sunshine.....well stocked up......think I'll go out and see how the geese are doing.....they HATE it when I'm working on the pond and fly up to th inlaws until,I'm done.--------6 ...o.............................. .... ......wit fro

Fred....is your buddy Huntington from Huntington die industries?

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:59 am

460 snub by is exactly why I prefer my K22!

All those big kickers fall into the same category OUCH QUIT IT !

piller · Post by **piller** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:14 am

I have a couple of heavy hitters, .480 SRH and .44 Mag SBH. I shoot them some, but not nearly as much as the lighter stuff. No point in beating my hand up. Why teach yourself to flinch?

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:44 pm

The older I get the more convinced I am that I've been living under a rock......a rock that's painted on top, "Winchester & Colt." And the only time I ventured away from this rock was for 8.5 hours a day, five days a week, from 6:00 to 2:30.

I walked in the living room and mom has this sport on the big screen where these guys are beating the hell out of each other.....I mean baaaaaaaddddddd dudes ......all tattooed up with arms bigger than my legs.......I ask mom, "what the hell are they fighting over?"......she says, "I don't know, some kind of a funny looking football.".....

I watched it for 10 minutes and I was astounded at the brutality, exclaiming I would not last 3 seconds around those guys, if that long.........

I've heard of the game but knew nothing about it...Rugby---6

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:52 pm

Ah yes rugby is not a sport for the feeble! I knew a BIG guy that played- always bleeding or breaking something. He asked me if I was interested I told him to go pound it sideways!

up here there are kid's leagues for rugby !

Just raked leaves around the perimeter of the fence, got the walk behind blower out. I ever mention I hate leaves !?

So tomorrow is the last day of our bird season, should I take the 28 or 410.....hmm

Went to town earlier, gas station kid said they are very busy, auto parts store was too as was the pharmacy and the liquor stores!

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:15 pm

Gunny...you have a walk behind blower? Never heard of such a thing except for the pros in the driveway/landscaping business.

Man! You get aaaaaaaallllll the neat stuff....Old Savage gets all of the soft stuff......Griff gets all of the neat tractors and tool stuff and Jay gets all of our stuff.....---6

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:23 pm

Well.......if that's true........
You need to send me that Colt SA and that 73......and the 71, ASAP!

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:19 pm

OldWin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:23 pm Well.......if that's true........
You need to send me that Colt SA and that 73......and the 71, ASAP!

Jay.....you are 14 years younger than me.......if you want ANYTHING I have, stop over with a suitcase of cash and we will work out a deal...a deal where you can get your money back INSTANTLY if you decide to sell or even make money if so be.........not the prices you see on the internet or Leroy Mertz and other high dollar dealers. I've sold Tom a few items the same way.

Hey buddy...it's only "Stuff". That 71? I have 13 into it.----

Man! I gotta get outta this house....I keep saying that .....

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:30 pm

With my 3 trick disks in my back I do any & everything I can to not wear any extra weight on my back that's why I spent the money on the walk behind. Plus it's real handy when I do have to get the backpack blower out as I can leave the WB pointing out the gate and work a big pile of leaves to it.

Hey I'll give you $15.00for that 71!

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:42 pm

Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:19 pm
OldWin wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:23 pm Well.......if that's true........
You need to send me that Colt SA and that 73......and the 71, ASAP!
Jay.....you are 14 years younger than me.......if you want ANYTHING I have, stop over with a suitcase of cash and we will work out a deal...a deal where you can get your money back INSTANTLY if you decide to sell or even make money if so be.........not the prices you see on the internet or Leroy Mertz and other high dollar dealers. I've sold Tom a few items the same way.

Hey buddy...it's only "Stuff". That 71? I have 13 into it.----

Man! I gotta get outta this house....I keep saying that .....

Haha I know man! I appreciate that buddy. Woo! You're in that right! I'm sure it's like me. You've had it a while and prices go up....up.....up.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:34 pm

No Jay.....I have not had it for very long....maybe 10 years.....it was mid day at a gun show and this gun was on a table with a mess of JUNK.......nobody picked it out...except me......didn't even argue with the money as I pulled out my wad, paid, and walked.............. went to a buddy a few isles down and showed him. He wet his pants....then when I showed him the serial number he did a number 2 in his pants....#761....or a number similar, but it was three digits. Thhhheeeennnnnn, when I told him the dealer, who is a sometimes buddy of his he got maaaadddddd.

Same way I got the Colt Lightning number #58........I was probably the last guy in the show to look at it. That gun was priced at 28 which was a so-so price......OK, but not great....99% of guys are looking to steal the gun. Can't remember but I think I whipped out 24 and the guy took it......what I didn't tell anyone until after it was in my hands was the serial number. I must have had 50 people gathered around me with most all of them saying, "oh man, I had that gun in my hands and let it go and never looked at the serial number." It also came with a factory letter.

There's an old saying you all have heard..."You snooze, you loose".

Now comes the best part.......I was outside when I bought the Lightning as it was a regular guy walking it around and he was leaving the show..... After I bought it I asked him if he had anything else to which he said, "yea, an old Marlin that's in the car." We walked out together and when he popped the trunk lid, there was the ultra rare 1881 with the 30" buffalo barrel on it. Had to,give him 7 on that one.....

---6

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:36 pm

Gunny...... your a young man....how did you mess up your back....for real, my sympathy is with you as I've heard a bad disc is painful---6

OldWin · Post by **OldWin** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:27 pm

Wow! Unreal. Guns like that don't come along much up this way. When they do, they get a LOT of attention. There also isn't a lot of money here so most times they get sold out of state.
I ALWAYS check serial numbers.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:50 pm

Your mom must have stepped in something while she was birthing you cuz you got all the luck!!

sure 3 or 4 digit guns but never see a 2 digit!!

One disc is from a center console when a dipstick broad ran a stop sign and we Tboned at 55! On the way home from an Oaks show. The other 2 are right at my pelvis and I really dont know what caused the problem but I blame it on roofing for way too long !

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:53 pm

They just announced that Pennsylvania State liquor stores are closing. Beer and wine can still be sold in other stores. There's only one time I've read where liquor stores closed.......during times of mass riot..... ya figure, liquor stores don't exactly attract large crowds of people where viruses spread and many use it for medicinal reasons...........don't sound right.

Griff · Post by **Griff** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:00 pm

Sixgun Sr wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:53 pmThey just announced that Pennsylvania State liquor stores are closing. Beer and wine can still be sold in other stores. There's only one time I've read where liquor stores closed.......during times of mass riot..... ya figure, liquor stores don't exactly attract large crowds of people where viruses spread and many use it for medicinal reasons...........don't sound right.

I always wonder if that's a chicken/egg thing... does the alcohol fuel the riot, or is it the lack thereof? I'll give them the benefit of the doubt... the powers-that-be are concerned for their employees.

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:24 pm

Maybe Griff.....I don't know......I'm at the bottom of the scale for knowledge on social science.........I solve social problems in simple terms......Someone comes after me...I shoot.....problem solved.

It's crazy here......it's Saturday and nothing happening.....Costco is cleaned out unless you want a TV or jewelry.

My inlaws are down to their last roll of toilet paper with no help in sight......all major stores have a hundred yard line waiting to get in before they open........signs are on doors...."No Toilet Paper until next week". Gonna be a lot of stinky t shirts.

The Arabs are not worrying as long as they have a hand.

GunnyMack · Post by **GunnyMack** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 4:33 am

If only these people would just stop, take a deep breath and think... But these are the same types that buy milk and bread when a snow storm is forecasted.
Those of us that hunt,fish,camp are sitting pretty. We have the skills and knowledge to survive. All these city dwelling starbucks drinking apartment dwellers are going to be in a bad way.
My local bank have response teams ready to clean the branches if someone shows up sick! Everything is going to be panic driven for a while yet.
The neighbor that I look after , poor woman has been in and out of the hospital since last summer. Anyway she is now at a rehab center and it is locked down- no visitors, no new patients. She wants to come home and I told her you are better off there as there is nothing in the stores to buy, her reply to there being no toilet paper was grab a hand full of leaves!

Oh well the coffee is ready!

Jay Bird · Post by **Jay Bird** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 12:18 pm

Well.....
It looks like Jay is no longer living in Hicksville.............West Virginia, the only state where there are no confirmed coronavirus cases and NO solved murders has taken over as redneck state of the union.

Gunny......as you know, I was way ahead of most people stocking up and I said why.....I'm not worried about the virus, I'm worried about the fallout......why should I suffer because I know people are going to panic? . Screw em all.....I've been in panic situations and I see how people are treated...

and that is, unless it's no sweat off their azz, they will grind you into the earth and keep on going.

Opened up another roll of TP...down to 50 rolls.

Post by **Old Savage** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:10 pm

In Calif. A firearms safety certificate is required to buy a gun or ammo. Stopped by the local gun shop yesterday, no parking spots, had to wait til someone left. Insided they were slammed with folks with cards and applications. Never mind tp never have seen this in more than 25 years in that shop. This panic is driving more people to want guns and ammo. This is a reaction the Cal govt probably finds counter to their goals.