Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

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4t5
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Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by 4t5 »

That are "rated' to 1600 FPS , want to use them in my Henry single shot and my Ruger security six. I am looking for a decent load, that won't lead the barrels.
I made up some using min. load of titegroup, but the outside of the revolver was covered in soot, primers were not especially flat but the indent appeared deeper than normal, so I stopped shooting them. Was my first time with titegroup, and these cast bullets. am thinking there was a lot of gas blow by, because of low velocity, but the primers gave me pause, what are your thoughts?
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earlmck
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by earlmck »

I'm guessing you have a real hard bullet alloy there which often doesn't do a good job with light loads in a revolver. And from the soot I'm guessing you have a really light load. You probably have a bullet which has been alloyed for magnum loads in a revolver, so you might want to try that. But your rifle will likely shoot the hard bullet just fine at lower velocities if that is what you want from it.
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missionary5155
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by missionary5155 »

Greetings
Always measure the grove diameter and the chamber diameter "Before" investing in lead bullets.
In caliber .357 we use lead bullets at least .001 over the diameters with smokeless powder shooting. Revolvers are also chamber diameter sensitive.
Also lead hardness must be "matched" to the pressure being applied to the bullet. 1000 x bullet hardness gives a good idea. If your lead slug is about 15 hardness it will handle about 15,000 cup pressure and of course less. This is just a simple guideline though but helps with knowing what to expect.
A gas check will help with groove sized slugs but it is still better to be over diameter. In .458 we use groove + .0015-.002.

So here is the bad news.. If your groove diameter is .358 or larger do not expect a great day. If your groove diameter is .357 with a perfect bore things may work out well. If your groove is .356 you did well.
My dad and his Navy buddy made their own cast slugs so I got a good background. I have been doing my own since 1978 and I have found over sized cast to always work best.
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AJMD429
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by AJMD429 »

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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by Sixgun »

Excellent advice above.....as Missionary Mike says, bullet diameter is important and as far as I'm concerned, the most important. When you size, or buy the bullet for a revolver, size to cylinder throat. Smith and Wessons are notorious for large cylinder throats......don't concern yourself with the barrel groove diameter, the barrel will size down the bullet, if it's in factory specs.

For a cast bullet in the 38 Spl/357 mag., I'll size .358 or .359....if the mould I'm using will drop em that big. 44 mags, specials, or 44 wcf's start at .427 and go to .431. It's a pain in the azz but I have to keep separate inventory of the same caliber and load for different guns of the same caliber.

The perfect cast bullet for high velocity is one that is hard and matches the throat diameter in a revolver or the groove diameter in a rifle. An undersized hard bullet will lead more than a soft bullet.

Using a moderately hard bullet will suffice for 98% of all revolvers as well as rifles. If you want to shoot over 1800 in a rifle, use jacketed.....I can get rifle bullets to 2400 with no issues but it would take me three hours to explain it. Even soft bullets such as swaged will suffice entirely to a 1000 in a revolver or 12-14 in a rifle, provided the sizing is correct and the bore condition is smooth.

Gas checks are a huge help in anything over about 1400......Much more forgiving in unknowledgable loading techniques along with rifles that have shytty crowns and/or pitted rifling.

Then there's the issue of leading...there's always going to be some...don't let it bother you. Guys have said to me, "I see streaking in parts of the barrel". I say, "so, tell me something that matters". It becomes detrimental when accuracy falls off enough for you to notice and unless your a world class target shooter or in the Olympics for "cast bullet accuracy" , don't concern yourself. Other variables such as wind, trigger let off, follow through, your at-the-time mental state will have more effect on accuracy than a little bit of lead.

Even if you get severe leading in the bore, no big deal, your not going to die....just fire a few jacketed rounds, preferably of low to moderate velocity, when your done shooting or invest in a Lewis lead removal tool which costs about as much as a cheap case of Old Milwaukee beer and you'll have it for the rest of your life instead of pizzing it down the drain.

For more information come visit at the M-1 Garand post or stay tuned to a new and exciting new post coming soon which will be titled, "The Cool Kids Post". A small questionnaire will be needed to pass in order for you to get your "White Star" rating, which is for beginners and you can work your way up from white, orange, red, blue, and to the top, Gold, which is where I'm at. Good luck 4T5!!!!!----------6
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4t5
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by 4t5 »

I went and bought 1500 bullets, sized exactly .357, guess I'll crank them up and just use them in the rifle, Thanks again for all your help, you guys are the best!
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earlmck
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by earlmck »

Hey, just put a little turpentine to those babies and they'll likely do you OK in your revolver as well as the rifle. I've shot a lot of .357 sized casties that were originally made up for a Colt revolver. Put 'em through my Ruger and thought they did just fine. But I don't use light loads with hard bullets: I'm more toward the max end of things. Put some psi's to those and they'll expand to fit and shoot straight if the alloy and the lube are anything close to decent.
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mikld
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Re: Bought some 357 dia. cast bullets...

Post by mikld »

There's more to bullet's "rated" velocity than how hard it is (Most commercial bullets are way too hard. Somehow the idea got spread around that "harder is better" and the commercial casters just supply what the newer cast bullet shooters "want"). Bullet to gun fit is primary and a good lube comes before hardness. I have fired 357 Mag home cast bullets, about 10-11 BHN, air cooled, with a good lube, to approx. 1,300 fps with no barrel leading. But the bullets fit the gun.

For shooting lead bullets it's best to know the gun being used; revolvers should use bullets that fit the cylinder throat (I have sized my revolver bullets to the same diameter as the cylinder throats in my 7 revolvers and get very little/no leading). Measure the cylinder throats (slug or use pin/pug gauges) and slug the barrel. Most revolvers made today will have a barrel groove diameter smaller than the cylinder throat diameter, but slug the barrel to make sure). If you use hard bullets that are smaller than the cylinder throat you are almost guaranteed to get barrel leading, and they will contribute to the soot on the outside of your gun. (some will advise to use a certain diameter bullet that "worked for me for years", but even a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while, so measure your gun to be sure.)

Start with a "normal" hardness bullet (10-13 BHN), make sure they fit your gun and have a decent lube. This is a good start that will more likely than not give you good, clean, and and accurate shooting.

For answers to just about any possible question on cast bullets from alloy to lube, loads sizing, shooting, molds, tools/equipment and coating go here; http://castboolits.gunloads.com/
Mike
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