Pistols and bears - report
Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.
Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
- crs
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3153
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
- Location: Republic of Texas
- Contact:
Pistols and bears - report
From another forum - should interest many here:
New and up dated information.
As always the author is still interested and will add any verifiable cases to the data base.
Just left me know and I will get them to him.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/...-cases-96-effective/
Another ten cases have been added to the cases where pistols or handguns were used in defense against bear attacks. The total now is 73 cases. There were 3 failures. Handguns were 96% effective.
New and up dated information.
As always the author is still interested and will add any verifiable cases to the data base.
Just left me know and I will get them to him.
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/...-cases-96-effective/
Another ten cases have been added to the cases where pistols or handguns were used in defense against bear attacks. The total now is 73 cases. There were 3 failures. Handguns were 96% effective.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32037
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: Pistols and bears - report
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/handgu ... z5wtQI8UPC
This link works but I couldn't get yours to...
I am amazed by this part:
There were four successful defenses with .22 rimfire. Three black bears were killed. One ran off and was later killed by officials. One defense with a .22 rimfire against a polar bear was unsuccessful.
There was one successful defense with a .380 pistol. The black bear ran off.
There were five successful defenses with 9 mm pistols. The four grizzly bears were killed, the black bear was wounded and ran off.
There was one successful defense with a 9.3X18 Makarov. The grizzly was killed.
This link works but I couldn't get yours to...
I am amazed by this part:
There were four successful defenses with .22 rimfire. Three black bears were killed. One ran off and was later killed by officials. One defense with a .22 rimfire against a polar bear was unsuccessful.
There was one successful defense with a .380 pistol. The black bear ran off.
There were five successful defenses with 9 mm pistols. The four grizzly bears were killed, the black bear was wounded and ran off.
There was one successful defense with a 9.3X18 Makarov. The grizzly was killed.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2448
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:24 pm
- Location: wasilla, alaska and bozeman, montana
Re: Pistols and bears - report
one of my father’s uncles [ i never got to meet this one] killed 19 [ really !} black bears with a 22 single shot rifle [ this was pre-WWII ] ...one of these was a close call....the others were mostly single well placed shots [ hit man style ] done while the uncle was small game hunting..... the 22 rifle was the only rifle he had .
not recommending this.... i suspect he was an excellent shot
not recommending this.... i suspect he was an excellent shot
cable
Re: Pistols and bears - report
I am surprised and somewhat encouraged. Not that I plan on needing defense from bears, but I would be trying my best if I were to bump into one. It sounds as if bears do not like accurate shot placement. Although, sometimes the bear wins.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Pistols and bears - report
20 pound meatsack, or 1000 pound meatsack....Hit something real important and it flops.
Phil Shoemaker has a pic out there of him and a grizz with a 9mm hole in it's head.
Phil Shoemaker has a pic out there of him and a grizz with a 9mm hole in it's head.
The Rotten Fruit Always Hits The Ground First
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
Proud Life Member Of:
NRA
Second Amendment Foundation
Citizens Committee For The Right To Keep And Bear Arms
DAV
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32037
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: Pistols and bears - report
That is eloquent and true. You just said what many authors take 300 pages to explain....
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
- crs
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 3153
- Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
- Location: Republic of Texas
- Contact:
Re: Pistols and bears - report
Sorry if the link was bad AND THANKS DOC FOR THE GOOD ONE.
Reading this article motivated me to spend time at the pistol range today with 2 Model 19s , a M39 and concealed carry 9 mm. Reminded me of what great shooters those M19 .38/.357 revolvers are! Ate the bulls eye out after a warm up with the 9mm.
My Taurus 4 inch 44mag will be next as soon as the effect of the full house buffalo bore 180 loads wear off.
Then on to the M92 .357 rifle which has been hiding in wait in case needed to repel boarders.
Reading this article motivated me to spend time at the pistol range today with 2 Model 19s , a M39 and concealed carry 9 mm. Reminded me of what great shooters those M19 .38/.357 revolvers are! Ate the bulls eye out after a warm up with the 9mm.
My Taurus 4 inch 44mag will be next as soon as the effect of the full house buffalo bore 180 loads wear off.
Then on to the M92 .357 rifle which has been hiding in wait in case needed to repel boarders.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Re: Pistols and bears - report
I have a .357 GP 100, a .40 cal Glock, and a few larger pistols. As long as I do my part, the pistols are probably plenty good.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
- wvfarrier
- Senior Levergunner
- Posts: 1452
- Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:27 am
- Location: West (by GOD) Virginia
Re: Pistols and bears - report
My uncle, Skip, killed a 300# black bear with a 22 derringer. It got into his dog kennels in the middle of the night while he was sleeping. He grabbed the closest gun he had and literally dove into the fight. He suffered some scrapes but shot the bear with both barrels at point blank range. This was 20 years ago (ish).
A bondservant of our Lord, Christ Jesus
-
- Advanced Levergunner
- Posts: 2448
- Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 1:24 pm
- Location: wasilla, alaska and bozeman, montana
Re: Pistols and bears - report
i have and have carried all manner of pistols, 45 colt, 454, 480,wildey 45 win mag, etc and many different 44 magnums..... i have settled on the 44 magnum for here in alaska, either SW329 or the astra terminator 3” gun; although when hiking in montana i sometimes carry the SW 3” model 60 kit gun in 357
i do have glock model 20 in 10 mm but have yet to carry it in the field
i do have glock model 20 in 10 mm but have yet to carry it in the field
cable
Re: Pistols and bears - report
I try to read every article written by or about Alaskan bear guides Phil Shoemaker and Ed Stevenson.
Both have written and been quoted that the bruin's reactionary tendency to snap or paw at the initial bullet's sting thus distracting it momentarily has saved many lives by giving time for follow up shots at better angles than a frontal charge.
You see this in hunting videos, the bear biting at a peripheral, non lethal hit and spinning around and losing focus on the human threat for long enough for the hunter and guide to make further hits. Apparently the bear does not know the difference between a gunshot and a wasp sting until it is too late.
In Shoemaker's infamous 9mm kill, the bear pausing to snap at the basically ineffective neck hit allowing both time and better angle for further shot placement.
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... mm-pistol/
Also, it is said that sows defending cubs do not exhibit this and are not so soon distracted by gunfire or bullets.
Both have written and been quoted that the bruin's reactionary tendency to snap or paw at the initial bullet's sting thus distracting it momentarily has saved many lives by giving time for follow up shots at better angles than a frontal charge.
You see this in hunting videos, the bear biting at a peripheral, non lethal hit and spinning around and losing focus on the human threat for long enough for the hunter and guide to make further hits. Apparently the bear does not know the difference between a gunshot and a wasp sting until it is too late.
In Shoemaker's infamous 9mm kill, the bear pausing to snap at the basically ineffective neck hit allowing both time and better angle for further shot placement.
https://www.americanhunter.org/articles ... mm-pistol/
Also, it is said that sows defending cubs do not exhibit this and are not so soon distracted by gunfire or bullets.
m.A.g.a. !
- AJMD429
- Posting leader...
- Posts: 32037
- Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
- Location: Hoosierland
- Contact:
Re: Pistols and bears - report
So look......where does one aim when a bear is coming towards you, or up on rear legs facing you...?
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.
Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "
Re: Pistols and bears - report
CNS IF POSSIBLE. if standing the spine is exposed thru the sternum. top of the head if you get that right-angle shot, but bullets can glance off of the crown if the angle is bad. through the medula is the basic target, so if the head angle is high, then thru the snout or the neck if the angle is good to the base of the spine in the skull. this is all from research and working the angles with deer. I've not shot a bear, but I know people who have. I also met someone whom the bear ate. A bear can be mortally wounded and still kill you before it expires, so CNS is the one as far as I can find out.
Long time ago I was talking to Tim Sundles by phone when he was on a bear hunt with Shoemaker. Sundles said he didn't think the 45/70 was adequate as a bear gun and he had something with a higher muzzle energy, but I can't recall what it was.
Re: Pistols and bears - report
the most interesting thing about the article was the "success rate" of handgun defenses against bear attacks... 98% !!!!!
the CDC statistic for handgun deaths is 10%. 10% of handgun wounds are fatal.....
that is stunning. I think the difference is that people who want to survive a bear attack SHOOT TO KILL. I think the CDC statistic suggests something else. Know what I mean?
the CDC statistic for handgun deaths is 10%. 10% of handgun wounds are fatal.....
that is stunning. I think the difference is that people who want to survive a bear attack SHOOT TO KILL. I think the CDC statistic suggests something else. Know what I mean?
Re: Pistols and bears - report
If an animal which can kill me is attacking me, you can be sure that I will be trying my hardest to kill it before it can kill me.
D. Brian Casady
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Quid Llatine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur.
Advanced is being able to do the basics while your leg is on fire---Bill Jeans
Don't ever take a fence down until you know why it was put up---Robert Frost
Re: Pistols and bears - report
of course piller! do you see a dichotomy in the statistics when you compare and contrast ?