Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

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Bill in Oregon
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Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gentlemen, I know you have both jumped through the considerable hoops to be able to own and use firearms, but in your experience, just how much "work" afield can you accomplish with an airgun rated at 12 foot pounds?
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by stretch »

Well Bill, you didn't directly ask me, but I've been killing pests with airguns for awhile now.

Very, very interesting chart in the link below.

In my experience, anything squirrel-sized or smaller is doomed within 25 yards with pretty much
anything in the chart. I favor pointed pellets because they penetrate better, and on smaller
rodents usually go in AND out again. The hollow points do expand impressively,
but they lack penetration.

I've had good luck with the Kodiak, Crow Magnum, and RWS's Superpoint. I haven't
tried everything in the chart.

RWS 48 in 22 and Beeman RS2(?) in 177. The latter is ridiculously accurate for a Chinese
springer. Dime-sized groups are doable at 35 yards with the RWS. A really good man with
a rifle could surely do better.

With careful shot placement, woodchucks can be taken with the 22. I haven't tried with
a 177. Head shots from the side are preferred, but not always possible. Same with large rats.
(I'm in Maine, and moose are too big for either caliber........ :wink: ) I try to keep ranges
around 25 yards, although I did nail a red squirrel through the head at a measured 40 yards with
the Beeman one winter. (Okay - I missed twice before I got 'im! :oops: )

YMMV...

Good luck!

https://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtake48.html

-Stretch
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by GunnyMack »

Hey Bill, I've been popping tree rats, wascly wabbits, ground hogs and chipmunks for years with Crossman 760, RWS 45 AND RWS 350. The 350 will push a light .177 past the sound barrier, however I dont think it's as accurate as my 45. That being said I prefer .177just because ya get more velocity/ range. Yes .22 or even .25 is better for down range energy but such a rainbow trajectory. If there was more selection in .20 I'd go that route- best of both fps & energy.
Squirrels at 40+ is no problem with body shots.
The real challenge is getting a tree rat with my blowgun! A few have fallen but most of the time I sticks the darts into a tree never to be retrieved without a cherry picker!!
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by gamekeeper »

Bill, I regularly kill squirrels and wood pigeons and members of the crow family with a .177 junior air rifle well under 12 foot pounds. My son gkjr is a professional Grey Squirrel trapper in the North East of England, he uses a BSA .177 pre charged air rifle with great success where he can't use his shotguns or rimfire.
Being almost forced to use airguns as a kid because of our crazy gun laws, I had little use for them after jumping through all the hoops to get "real firearms" but I obviously found them useful when other guns couldn't be used, since I retired I bought a little "NoricaThor" .177 it is only rated about 8 foot pounds, I only wanted it for back yard plinking but I was surprised how effective it was on small game. I take it occasionally for walks around the woods instead of a " proper gun".... :wink:
BTW I learnt about 60 years ago that the .177 in a low powered airgun beats a .22 low powered airgun anyday, if I was going to get something over 12 foot pounds maybe a .22 then.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Rusty »

Nath and GK might verify this but I was thinking at one time 12 ft/lbs was the cut off point for airguns in the UK. Less than that was OK, more than that and it had to go on your firearms license. I bought Jr a BSA Supersport years ago that was marked on the box 12 ft/lbs FOR EXPORT ONLY. His was in .22 cal. It shot great but blew out the breach seal, it needs to be replaced. To be able to shoot with him I bought a Benjamin 392 which when shot over a Chrony II is actually more consistent on a shot to shot basis.
All that said the top shot for tree rats in our house is a .177 Chinese side lever... go figure.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by barbarossa »

I purchased a Diana Mauser k98 in 177cal and highly recommend it.I bought it for backyard plinking and pest control and actually shot a squirrel off of the peak of the roof from 35yards with iron sights this morning with one shot,the pellet ripping open the abdomen.The mauser is fun to shoot and is grooved for a scope mount but is a tad heavy.I believe pellet velocity is around 1150

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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by gamekeeper »

Rusty, you are quite right, most of what we call full power air rifles in the UK are 11.5 FTP to avoid being classed as firearms :roll: more powerful air rifles are becoming more popular but I have found at normal 30+ yards range not really that necessary. CB longs in my 9422 are what I use if if I need a bit more power.
Shirley has a CZ .177 at about 7.5 FTP that she bought off my son, he killed a truck load of rabbits with it and I took out a young fox with it at extremely close range DRT. It still takes squirrels and pigeons in her garden.

Barbarossa, I do like that Diana.... :mrgreen:
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Guys, I have had a bunch of the "adult" airguns over the years, but probably killed more starlings in the plum tree with a cheap Crosman-badged Norica .177 that was super easy to cock -- almost like a Slavia.
I was just curious about the 12 fpe maximum in Britain and what it was capable of. My most powerful springers were a Diana 54 and a Weihrrauch 97. A friend in Idaho has killed 600 rockchucks this summer for ranchers and farmers in his neighborhood with an Air Arms TX 200.
Most powerful airgun I have had was a Benjamin Marauder PCP in .25. Talk about quiet power and accuracy, but working that Hill pump to fill it plumb wore me out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmqomvF ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by GunnyMack »

That is exactly the reason I have not sprung for a big bore air rifle!! I suppose ya could run CO2 from the welding supply house- I'm not pumping!!
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gunny, the only thing that wears me out about like pumping is lugging a 10-pound magnum springer and scope. Takes the fun out of it.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by GunnyMack »

I hear ya, my air rifles hang around the house for taking out the local population of vermin.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Rusty »

You might want to take a look at the Discovery if you want a PCP. They run at a lower operating pressure than the Marauder does. You'll still have to pump, just not as much.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Ray »

Still waiting for an adult, medium to large bore airgun that loads singly and uses all of the oomph at once of a 12 gr. co2 cylinder.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by gamekeeper »

The reason I went for a junior sized air rifle is that I never enjoyed using the heavy adult rifles, I've had a few 12 FTP springers and they have either recoiled themselves loose or have been heavier than a 10 gauge wildfowler. I have tried a couple of pump up rifles but not being Charles Atlas found them no fun after the first couple of shots.
The pre charged air rifles seem full of tiny seals and tiny springs and carrying a divers tank around doesn't appeal to me. CO2 I have found to be a bit inconsistent.
My little Spanish Norica Thor, Gas Ram, pushes a .177 pellet at about 770 FPS and with open fiber optic sights is accurate at the sort of range I regularly take out vermin.
If I ever find myself without a rimfire :? I would buy another gas ram air rifle but an adult sized 12 FTP with I suppose a darned carrying handle (spit) for more accurate brain shots.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

GK: I have yet to play with a gas ram gun. I should probably investigate.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Nath »

Geese, ducks, pheasant, hares, fox's, pigeon, crows, rats, mice, rabbits and squirrels have all been taken with 12ft/lbs by me.
I switched back to .22 for 12ft/lb spring guns and as said by GK, an even lower power output is still made useful by using 177. The things are so accurate one can crack heads with them as long as they are starting of about 700fps+
I use a weihrauch 99 in 22 and have a cheap Chinese 177.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Blaine »

Last year I splurged on a Diana 48 sidelever in .22 cal. I put a nice Bushnell red dot on it. All I can say is WOW. Those cheap Crosman .22 hollowpoints slam thru a 1/4" plywood leaving a gaping hole in the back. The DumAzz Hoplophobic State of Washington, at least on the west side, has really cracked down on public land target practice. This is going to be lots of fun on the little out-of-the-way spot in Capital Forest where I like to put the camper.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Ray »

BlaineG wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:47 pm Last year I splurged on a Diana 48 sidelever in .22 cal. I put a nice Bushnell red dot on it. All I can say is WOW. Those cheap Crosman .22 hollowpoints slam thru a 1/4" plywood leaving a gaping hole in the back. The DumAzz Hoplophobic State of Washington, at least on the west side, has really cracked down on public land target practice. This is going to be lots of fun on the little out-of-the-way spot in Capital Forest where I like to put the camper.

Glad I had my $27 annual all-game hunting license with me on a recent plinking excursion up into uncle's forest. I just shot a few dozen to empty magazines and cylinders that had been carried and needed freshening.....Backpack weighed about 30 pounds going in..... 25 or so coming out.

I had no idea that smokey bear has both trail cams and listening devices hidden amongst the foliage......Was almost back to the truck when they stepped out of the bushes into my path. "That you shooting ?".....They showed me blurry images of me and played audio of gunfire on a smartfone.

I had a slight prevarication ready for them......No closed season on opossums and raccoons for the purpose of rabies control......and Legal arms and ammunition for "other small game" Handguns, Pistols, and Revolvers of any caliber with mushrooming ammunition.


They did not like it but they had to let me go with a "good day sir !", said with something of a sneer. I guess the sheer number of roscoes and gats in the backpack made them suspicious.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Nath »

Ray wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:13 pm
BlaineG wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:47 pm Last year I splurged on a Diana 48 sidelever in .22 cal. I put a nice Bushnell red dot on it. All I can say is WOW. Those cheap Crosman .22 hollowpoints slam thru a 1/4" plywood leaving a gaping hole in the back. The DumAzz Hoplophobic State of Washington, at least on the west side, has really cracked down on public land target practice. This is going to be lots of fun on the little out-of-the-way spot in Capital Forest where I like to put the camper.

Glad I had my $27 annual all-game hunting license with me on a recent plinking excursion up into uncle's forest. I just shot a few dozen to empty magazines and cylinders that had been carried and needed freshening.....Backpack weighed about 30 pounds going in..... 25 or so coming out.

I had no idea that smokey bear has both trail cams and listening devices hidden amongst the foliage......Was almost back to the truck when they stepped out of the bushes into my path. "That you shooting ?".....They showed me blurry images of me and played audio of gunfire on a smartfone.

I had a slight prevarication ready for them......No closed season on opossums and raccoons for the purpose of rabies control......and Legal arms and ammunition for "other small game" Handguns, Pistols, and Revolvers of any caliber with mushrooming ammunition.


They did not like it but they had to let me go with a "good day sir !", said with something of a sneer. I guess the sheer number of roscoes and gats in the backpack made them suspicious.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Ray, this happened on a National Forest?
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Tactical Lever »

gamekeeper wrote: Sun Aug 04, 2019 5:30 am The reason I went for a junior sized air rifle is that I never enjoyed using the heavy adult rifles, I've had a few 12 FTP springers and they have either recoiled themselves loose or have been heavier than a 10 gauge wildfowler. I have tried a couple of pump up rifles but not being Charles Atlas found them no fun after the first couple of shots.
The pre charged air rifles seem full of tiny seals and tiny springs and carrying a divers tank around doesn't appeal to me. CO2 I have found to be a bit inconsistent.
My little Spanish Norica Thor, Gas Ram, pushes a .177 pellet at about 770 FPS and with open fiber optic sights is accurate at the sort of range I regularly take out vermin.
If I ever find myself without a rimfire :? I would buy another gas ram air rifle but an adult sized 12 FTP with I suppose a darned carrying handle (spit) for more accurate brain shots.
Not very much to a PCP or CO2 gun; just a couple seals and trigger. Probably simpler to rebuild, and no special equipment required versus a springer. I have a Benjamin Discovery, and it is very light and handy. Holds enough for an afternoon out after grouse. Probably about 30 very consistent shots with air, and about 60 with CO2. No perceivable recoil, so any cheap scope will do. I picked an old Japanese made Tasco 3-9x40(?) "big game rifle" scope for mine. I have filled my PCP reservoir with a paint ball gun tank. Pretty light, and fits in a small back pack with lots of room for more pellets, lunch, thermos, and emergency gear.

To stay at 12 foot pounds, a .22 can drive the 14.3 gr. pellet at 615 fps, and a .177 would move a 7.9 at about 827 fps. Personally I'd rather have the .22, as it carries better momentum, and wouldn't be shedding speed quite as fast.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by rossim92 »

stretch wrote: Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:59 am Well Bill, you didn't directly ask me, but I've been killing pests with airguns for awhile now.

Very, very interesting chart in the link below.

In my experience, anything squirrel-sized or smaller is doomed within 25 yards with pretty much
anything in the chart. I favor pointed pellets because they penetrate better, and on smaller
rodents usually go in AND out again. The hollow points do expand impressively,
but they lack penetration.

I've had good luck with the Kodiak, Crow Magnum, and RWS's Superpoint. I haven't
tried everything in the chart.

RWS 48 in 22 and Beeman RS2(?) in 177. The latter is ridiculously accurate for a Chinese
springer. Dime-sized groups are doable at 35 yards with the RWS. A really good man with
a rifle could surely do better.

With careful shot placement, woodchucks can be taken with the 22. I haven't tried with
a 177. Head shots from the side are preferred, but not always possible. Same with large rats.
(I'm in Maine, and moose are too big for either caliber........ :wink: ) I try to keep ranges
around 25 yards, although I did nail a red squirrel through the head at a measured 40 yards with
the Beeman one winter. (Okay - I missed twice before I got 'im! :oops: )

YMMV...

Good luck!

https://www.straightshooters.com/ourtake/ourtake48.html

-Stretch
i havw an beesman rs2 and they are very accurate
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Nath »

Never needed anything special to tear down a spring gun....and there has been some!
Never had an expensive scope on a spring gun and some have been over 12ft/lb.
Never had a spring gun fail in the field.
Have had PCP and CO2 fail in the field!
PCP also tend to have an over inflated price tag too!

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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by GunnyMack »

I had the spring in my RWS 45 break, called RWS they said send it in ,lifetime warranty. Told them send me the spring as I could do it myself. 10lbs of pelosi in a 5 pound bag comes to mind! That spring was a bear to install!! I finally came up with a bar clamp and pin punches and other things to compress that spring and hold it in place to reassemble it- I wont do that again!!
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by gamekeeper »

Nath wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 4:11 am Never needed anything special to tear down a spring gun....and there has been some!
Never had an expensive scope on a spring gun and some have been over 12ft/lb.
Never had a spring gun fail in the field.
Have had PCP and CO2 fail in the field!
PCP also tend to have an over inflated price tag too!

N.
My local dealer always seems to have PCP in bits when I see him, the magazine repeaters seem to me a bit fragile, my son loves his BSA PCP single shot and it does everything on the box but I'll pass.
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gunny, a spring press is a mighty useful article when working on springers. I made one a while back but never got around to using it to clean, tune and relube a springer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_7wfn3ev-Q
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by GunnyMack »

This was before the internet, and I was fresh out of smithing school so I just made it up as I went . Yes it worked, I still use the gun but if it happened again I'd send it back!
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by AmBraCol »

GunnyMack wrote: Thu Aug 08, 2019 6:21 am I had the spring in my RWS 45 break, called RWS they said send it in ,lifetime warranty. Told them send me the spring as I could do it myself. 10lbs of pelosi in a 5 pound bag comes to mind! That spring was a bear to install!! I finally came up with a bar clamp and pin punches and other things to compress that spring and hold it in place to reassemble it- I wont do that again!!
Next time, pre-compress the spring. Run a threaded rod through the middle with a large washer on each end and a nut on each end. Find a piece of tube that will fit over the rod and through the spring, cut it about the length of the spring when it's fully compressed (multiply the number of coils times the diameter of the wire for a rough length) this keeps the spring straight. Crank it down until coil bind, leave it a couple of hours. Unscrew. It will now be shorter than before and much easier to get into the rifle. With US power level you'll probably need a spring compressor of some kind to get it together. A pipe or bar clamp may work, just make sure to use something to keep it all in line (zip ties will work) so that it doesn't slip and launch things a mile away through a window or something.

Also, http://airrifleheadquarters.com will provide good seals and springs for most common air rifles if you know what you have and need. They also have appropriate lubes. Springers are fun to work on. :)
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Re: Airgun question for Nath, Gamekeeper

Post by jeepnik »

Slight thread drift.

The Crosman automatic BB gun with take down a squirrel with a five round burst out to about 15 yds.
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