1886 45-90 WCF in the British Military !!!

[crs]

I just found this information and thought it may be of interest to other 1886 shooters:

https://sites.google.com/site/britmilam ... winchester

[M. M. Wright]

Thanks crs, that's interesting stuff especially to an avid '86 shooter. Besides my rifle in 45-90 I have a Browning SRC in 45-70 that is much handier.

[gamekeeper]

Thanks for posting, even though I haven't got a 86 I found this interesting..

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I didn't realize one could push a 450 grain bullet to 2000fps with black powder. That's right up at 4000 ft-lbs. A lighter bullet sure, but a 450? Any black shooters loading the 45-90?

[crs]

Mmm, if ? directed to me, my 1886 45-90 has never used black powder or any substitute - only smokeless.
Also, only jacketed or solid bullets with the exception of some 325 grain Beartooth(never shot them all) that I loaded before getting involved with 86er and bullet testing.
WRT 450 grain .458 bullets at 2000+ fps, you bet! Just because the 1886 in an old design does not mean it is not capable of hurling heavy hunks of metal at speeds above 2000 fps. My 1886 450 grain 2150 fps loads were done for us by Grizzly cartridge and never neared the upper pressure limits of the Miroku 1886. One of the tricks is to use heavy-for-length bullets as opposed to longer monometal bullets. The 450 grain Kodiak and Punch bullets were great for this application.
And of course the right powder and primers.

Are there 45-90 black powder shooters? Yes!!!!
In search of more 45-90 load info, I have found multiple sites with 45-90 BP shooters.

[jeepnik]

It's surprising the things that folks have done to various rounds. I wonder if the use of incendiary ammo was to shoot down the hydrogen filled balloons the germans were using.

[M. M. Wright]

I load ffg Goex in my 45-90 loads. 300 grain bullet and enough powder to give about 1/8th inch compression. Now you've got me wondering so I'll have to set up the Chrono and just see what they are doing.

[crs]

MM,
I will be interested in the velocity if you do measure it.

On our 45-90 bullet testing in Africa, we loaded Nosler Protected Point to 2200 fps MV as Nosler said they would blow up on impact at speeds over 2200. 86er shot a leopard at 20 yards and it was DRT; the bullet was recovered from sand and was a beautiful mushroom.

[Rimfire McNutjob]

@crs, smokeless sure. The 45-90 is about the same water capacity as my 450 Alaskan. But black powder pushing 450 grains to 2000fps ... that seems a stretch for the 45-90. I think maybe a 300 or maybe even a 350. It will be interesting to see what Mr. Wright comes back with for his 300's.

[Grizz]

Hello crs

One of the tricks is to use heavy-for-length bullets as opposed to longer monometal bullets.

I read this several times and am still not sure what this means, exactly. But I'd like to know because it's a subject I enjoy learning about. Thanks!

[crs]

Hi Grizz,
Sorry that I used shorthand. Here is an example to clarify:

For three 458 diameter, 450 grain bullets, the all copper North Fork FPS bullet is longer than either the Kodiak FMJ over lead or the Punch brass bullet with lead filled hollow cavity base. The shorter bullets leave more room for powder to increase velocity.

I have a photo that makes this very obvious, but have yet to load it for display on an Internet forum.

[marlinman93]

I'm calling BS on their claim of 2,000 fps with black powder. Although the 1886 is certainly capable of that kind of performance with smokeless powder, it's just not going to get there with BP. Factory loads with a 400 gr. bullet and a full charge of BP were 1500 fps. BP wont burn fast enough to get it to 2,000 fps.

[Grizz]

I'm calling BS on their claim of 2,000 fps with black powder. Although the 1886 is certainly capable of that kind of performance with smokeless powder, it's just not going to get there with BP. Factory loads with a 400 gr. bullet and a full charge of BP were 1500 fps. BP wont burn fast enough to get it to 2,000 fps.

In the article it says that they were using smokeless powder for the tracers . . .

[Rimfire McNutjob]

I'm calling BS on their claim of 2,000 fps with black powder. Although the 1886 is certainly capable of that kind of performance with smokeless powder, it's just not going to get there with BP. Factory loads with a 400 gr. bullet and a full charge of BP were 1500 fps. BP wont burn fast enough to get it to 2,000 fps.

In the article it says that they were using smokeless powder for the tracers . . .

An it also says ...

The standard commercial .45-90 round utilized a 450 grain bullet with a charge of 90 grains of black powder, to give a velocity of around 2000 feet per second.

That's where the questions are coming from.

[Grizz]

yeah, one or the other is misinformation, especially when they were shortening the cases for the specialty rounds...

I'm guessing a typo, or like me, dyslexia with numbers . . .

[marlinman93]

I'm calling BS on their claim of 2,000 fps with black powder. Although the 1886 is certainly capable of that kind of performance with smokeless powder, it's just not going to get there with BP. Factory loads with a 400 gr. bullet and a full charge of BP were 1500 fps. BP wont burn fast enough to get it to 2,000 fps.

In the article it says that they were using smokeless powder for the tracers . . .

An it also says ...

The standard commercial .45-90 round utilized a 450 grain bullet with a charge of 90 grains of black powder, to give a velocity of around 2000 feet per second.

That's where the questions are coming from.

That's exactly what I saw. And those tracers were not only smokeless, but also weighed 237 grs.!

"Bullet length was 32mm and the filled weight was 237.5 grains."

[Grizz]

Well Sir, there is only one thing left to do . . . .


...

[Rimfire McNutjob]

Well Sir, there is only one thing left to do . . . .


...

Exactly ... someone is simply going to have to take one for the team and burn some black powder. I'm thinking they might get that 300 grain to 2000fps. I think Val is right on the 450 grain though ... 1500 with the wind behind you.

[Grizz]

I have a 425gr cast out of the guide gun at something over 1700, and I won't push it any harder than that.

I wish I had bought a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag when I had the chance to settle all these questions. Same exact bullets, loads that would blow up a levergun, fun fun fun.