'Natural' cholesterol Rx

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AJMD429
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'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by AJMD429 »

Although the anti-statin crowd is correct when they assert that "cholesterol isn't harmful" and that it is, in fact, a vital element of the human body - so vital that we make tons of it, even if we don't eat any at all, the reality is that atherosclerotic plaque will kill around a third of us in one way or another, and impact another third as well. Even though 'statins' don't really lower cholesterol the right way (which is why they sometimes cause side-effects), they DO lower mortality significantly, and from a 'herd medicine' standpoint, if we gave everyone atorvastatin starting at age 40, for every 100,000 people, we would probably increase the productive lifespan of about 20,000 of them by a decade or more, in exchange for significantly harming maybe 50 of them.

Nonetheless, since that plaque is in large part caused by only the oxidized cholesterol (in addition to smoking, homocysteine, and probably elevated insulin levels), efforts to reduce oxidized cholesterol without reducing the synthesis of cholesterol seem to be more sensible.

A new drug called Repatha appears to do the good thing that statins do (increase hepatic reuptake of LDL particles as they get depleted during circulation, reducing the time those particles spend in the highly-oxidizing environment of the bloodstream), without doing the bad thing statins do (inhibiting HMG-CoA cholesterol synthesis), but the cost is high, and of course any new medication has to prove itself safe and effective over time.

What is interesting to me is that we in the 'sort of natural' or 'alternative' medicine world have been using bergamot for several years, and it seems to do what Repatha does.

Few drugs (even the big-pharma ones) get studied to the point of looking at LDL-P (which is a WAY better indicator of cardiac risk than LDL-C), or looking at CIMT (carotid artery plaque) as an endpoint, but bergamot has actually been so studied - https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4702027/. Pretty impressive that there appears to be some actual REVERSAL of carotid plaque in just a few months...!!!

I post this because I know the majority of forum members are likely 'at-risk' for heart attack and stroke due to atherosclerotic disease, and most of us have terrible lipids - probably worse than most of our physicians tell us, because most of them aren't looking at oxidized LDL (Cleveland Clinic is the only lab I know of that currently offers that test) or LDL-P (the NMR lipid panel by Liposcience), or even Apo-B (widely available but 'employed' doctors are discouraged from ordering it as it is not a 'profitable' test). I also know that many here tend to be non-conformist rebel types, and might resist if their physician offers a 'statin'.

You might show your doctor the article I link to above, and see if they would recommend you use bergamot.

We can't have the tofu-and-sprouts vegan-types being healthier than we are, now, can we....!
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Paladin
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by Paladin »

Thanks for posting, you are possibly correct at least on me for my body chemistry.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

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As one who lacks the 2C19 enzyme and gene, statins could kill me in as little as 1 week. With my other missing enzymes, I one of about 30 to 40 in the entire US of A. Oddly enough, I am not susceptible to Hep B.

My LDL goes up or down based on sunlight exposure. So does my cholesterol and vitanin D3.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by gamekeeper »

Interesting Doc. I took statins for quite a time until side affects surfaced, Bergamot sounds intriguing.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by GunnyMack »

Good info there Doc! Thanks for putting us in the know.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Doc, how do you take it? I assume a cup of Earl Grey with bergamot won't quite do it.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 am Doc, how do you take it? I assume a cup of Earl Grey with bergamot won't quite do it.
I've been using the Ortho Molecular product. Despite the 'chemical sounding name' that company has a reputation for good quality natural supplements. I believe the article references a different company product, but I have been happy so far with the Ortho Molecular one. I'm looking to see if a compounding pharmacy in my area has something as well.
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Blaine
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by Blaine »

AJMD429 wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 10:10 am
Bill in Oregon wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:55 am Doc, how do you take it? I assume a cup of Earl Grey with bergamot won't quite do it.
I've been using the Ortho Molecular product. Despite the 'chemical sounding name' that company has a reputation for good quality natural supplements. I believe the article references a different company product, but I have been happy so far with the Ortho Molecular one. I'm looking to see if a compounding pharmacy in my area has something as well.
VA has had me on a statin since the started treating my Type II Diabetes. My total cholesterol number is around 200-220. Can I suppliment the statin with Bergamot?
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Bill in Oregon
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Blaine, that's a good question. I have been on atorvastatin for years with some improvement in HDL/LDL and room for more. But as Doc mentioned, most labs don't test for oxidized cholesterol.
Also, looking at bergamot supplements on Amazon, some are indeed the extract of Citrus bergamia -- the bergamot orange -- and some claiming to be bergamot are actual extracts of a much different plant -- Buddha's hand, or Citrus medica sarcodactylis. I wonder what gives.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by piller »

If you take large amounts of beegamot, do not forget to supplement with potassium. Bergamot causes potassium loss.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by Bullard4075 »

piller wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 12:20 pm If you take large amounts of beegamot, do not forget to supplement with potassium. Bergamot causes potassium loss.
What dosage ?
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by piller »

I would start with the over the counter stuff at one a day. Increase as needed to stop muscle cramps.
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Re: 'Natural' cholesterol Rx

Post by AJMD429 »

BlaineG wrote: Mon Jun 24, 2019 11:18 amVA has had me on a statin since the started treating my Type II Diabetes. My total cholesterol number is around 200-220. Can I suppliment the statin with Bergamot?
Yes you can take bergamot and a station together.

As far as 'total cholesterol' - it is about as useful in predicting heart attack and stroke risk as using the last three digits of your street address. Over half of infarcts and the majority of strokes occur in people with total cholesterol under 160. The wholesale cost of a NMR lipoprotein panel (for the LDL-P or 'particle count') is only $29 or so, and it is probably the best assessment and guide of treatment. Regular LDL-C ('LDL cholesterol') is almost as useless as total cholesterol; I had a woman with a "great" (according to the cardiologist) LDL-C of around 67, who had an LDL-P over 1,800, which equates to having a LDL-C of 180, not 67. The cardiologist told her she didn't need meds, and she had an infarct within the year. You really have to get the right tests.

However, if your doctor won't do the $29 test (they probably threaten to take it out of their pay or something), then you have to 'guess', but bergamot should help. However, since it IS a drug (even if 'natural') I would still make sure taking it is ok with the doctor(s). Same for therapeutic doses (i.e. 3-4 capsules before each meal) of omega-3 supplements; that can work wonders, but can also interact with other drugs, even though it is 'just a supplement'.

As a rule of thumb, the higher the fasting INSULIN (not sugar) levels are, the more out of whack the lipids and sex hormones get, leading to fatigue, weight gain, bedroom dysfunction, and clogged arteries. The triglyceride to HDL ratio will climb (shouldn't be over 3:1), and in severe cases, you'll see the shins get a brawny color after a few years due to what amounts to a slow form of gamgrene. Also, the sex hormone issue goes way beyond bedroom issues; recent evidence suggests that if the testosterone drops and is NOT corrected, it may put a guy at higher risk of prostate cancer death, by masking the rise in PSA we use to find it when easily treatable. Guys with normal testosterone levels, but elevated estrogen levels that go untreated, are also at increased risk of heart attack and stroke, due to the increased blood clot risk.

Lots to check, but so much is easy and not very expensive to fix....!

Seeing carotid plaque go away is so awesome, but it only happens with really aggressive Rx. Unfortunately the norm is still to just do 'token efforts' that look good, and just plan ahead for the inevitable bypasses and stents.
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