Win 92 25/20 project rifle

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JFE
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Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by JFE »

Hello everyone,

I have an old 1892 rifle that I bought as a project. It's been on the back burner for a while and I think I should get this one going while I can still use open sights.

It has all the features that I like in such a rifle:

Straight grip
Half mag with button mag
Octagonal barrel
No saddle ring

The problem is that the barrel is badly worn internally and at some stage the barrel was shortened to 19".

If possible I want to retain the original barrel (the factory lettering is in good condition) and considering shortening it to a length that Winchester might have supplied from the factory, then have it relined.

So, my first question is, was an 18" barrel ever offered from the factory 1892's in 25/20 ?

A more complicated option might be to use the original barrel effectively as sleeve, i.e. have it bored out to receive a round barrel and create a half oct/half round barrel, retaining the original factory lettering. Has anyone heard of this being done and was it successful?

Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
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Tycer
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Tycer »

I don’t know the answer to your question but I might just have the 19” barrel lined fresh and enjoy the “heritage.“ In building Historical Society guidance, any changes to a building before the Historical Society gets involved is considered part of the history and cannot be removed or changed. It can be restored.
Kind regards,
Tycer
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Booger Bill
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Booger Bill »

I would have it converted to .256 Win mag.
Merle
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Merle »

Booger Bill wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:50 pm I would have it converted to .256 Win mag.

How is ammo availability for .256? :?:
Merle from PA
twobit
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by twobit »

JFE wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:37 pm Hello everyone,

I have an old 1892 rifle that I bought as a project. It's been on the back burner for a while and I think I should get this one going while I can still use open sights.

It has all the features that I like in such a rifle:

Straight grip
Half mag with button mag
Octagonal barrel
No saddle ring

The problem is that the barrel is badly worn internally and at some stage the barrel was shortened to 19".

If possible I want to retain the original barrel (the factory lettering is in good condition) and considering shortening it to a length that Winchester might have supplied from the factory, then have it relined.

So, my first question is, was an 18" barrel ever offered from the factory 1892's in 25/20 ?

A more complicated option might be to use the original barrel effectively as sleeve, i.e. have it bored out to receive a round barrel and create a half oct/half round barrel, retaining the original factory lettering. Has anyone heard of this being done and was it successful?

Any pearls of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
Good morning,

The Model 1892 sporting rifles had 24 inch round, octagon, or half round.half octagon barrels. They could be special ordered with barrel lengths between 36 down to 12 inches in whole inch increments. So, the current 19 or 18 inch lengths were both possible. By far the more common would have been 18. The only problem is that on a rifle like that the fore end wood would have been just over 8 inches instead of the current 9 inches. Additionally the magazine retaining ring will be in the wrong position relative to the muzzle face if you cut another inch off of the end.

I am currently working on a research survey of the 1892's and would like to add your rifle into my data. Can I get the SN please? I can tell you the exact date the serial number was applied to the receiver. Let me know if you have further questions.

Michael
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Michael Puzio
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missionary5155
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by missionary5155 »

Good morning
As far as the internal barrel condition I would try and shoot it first with somewhat oversized cast bullets with gas checks. you might be surprised how well it will shoot.
We have a 1873 with worn rusted interrupted rifling that would head shoot ground hogs / shoulders at 35 yards easy in 32-20.
If it does not shoot minute of vege can at 25 yards relining with a .25 liner will let you keep the original caliber. Any competent "smith" can do that.
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JFE
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by JFE »

Thanks for the comments. I think Tycer has the right idea - just reline what I have and try not to mess too much with it. The barrel internally is really bad with areas of rifling missing. I plan to use cast in it so a reline is really in order.

Twobit - the serial number is 16737, which, according the sites that have DOM data, suggests it was made in 1892. I haven't measured the length of the forearm but from memory it looks to be fairly long for a 92.

I'm not sure how accurate this is but I read somewhere that there were more 1892 rifles sold in Australia than anywhere else in the world. The cartridges offered suited the game available at the time and they were in constant use until well after the post WWII period as imported firearms were quite expensive and the alternatives were converted SMLE's in a local cartridge based on the 303. Most of 1892 examples you see had a pretty hard life but occasionally you come a cross one in good condition.
Pete44ru
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Pete44ru »

JFE wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 8:01 am
The barrel internally is really bad with areas of rifling missing.

FWIW

I've run across bores that had all the rifling won to the point it was virtually missing, but never a bore that had only portions missing. (except for rifling worn at the muzzle from improper use of a cleaning rod, and at the chamber throat)

However, the appearance of missing rifling is often built-up leading, in the entire bore, or only portions of it - after all, what do you have to lose besides a little elbow grease ?

If you haven't already done so, I would suggest aggressively scrubbing those "worn" areas before spending any money on it.

You gun reminds me of a .32-20 Turnbull Model 92 I once bought (the seller had no clue, thinking it just another refinished gun) with a straight grip, round bbl & a button magazine.

I like the two smaller Model 1892/92 chamberings (.25-20 & .32-20) better than the larger bores for general shooting, as the invoice for lead is less expensive. ;)



.
twobit
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by twobit »

Hello JFE,

Can you send me a photo of the SN? Is it perfectly centered on the bottom of the receiver or is it offset left or right? My reason for asking is that according to the original production ledgers SN 16737 was manufactured during 1893 as a saddle ring carbine! It is possible that the first or last digit of the SN has been removed. My email address is 2bitrifles@gmail.com

Michael
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Michael Puzio
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JFE
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by JFE »

Pete44ru - I hope you are right. I'll give the barrel a good going over during the weekend. Thanks for pointing that out.

Michael - the serial number looks centered and to me it doesn't look like it's been tampered with. I've sent you a few photos along with pics of the font and wording used on the barrel and receiver in case there are any inconsistencies with what what was used during that period. To me it doesn't look like a saddle ring was ever fitted either. The forend measures 9.25" from the front of the receiver to the rear of the magazine cap.

I thought I add some additional info on the 92's in Oz. A local manufacturer called Sportco used to rebarrel 92's using locally made barrels. Jack Warne was involved in Sportco and he eventually left Oz to set up shop in the USA. He founded Kimber in Oregon and Warne scope mounts.
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Tycer
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Tycer »

This is getting interesting!

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Kind regards,
Tycer
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fordwannabe
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by fordwannabe »

I will say a number of years ago a buddy of mine bought two 92’s at a gun show and he got them relatively cheap as they were both “shot out” ,6little to no rifling left. I asked how you wore out all the rifling on a steel barrel with slow lead bullets and he gave me a dumb look. I used a foul out cleaning system and got enough lead to make a 44wcf bullet. Lots of good rifling and actually a decent bore under all that lead. I offered him what he paid for it and was rebuked.What a pal.🙄
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.
Booger Bill
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Booger Bill »

"How is ammo availability for .256?"
You can make your own easily using .357 mag cases. I have dies for it. My first one was a ruger hawkeye back in the 1970`s. Then I had a Martini built up in it. I own a T/C Contender with a barrel for it. They are a sweetheart to shoot, next to no recoil, flat shooting and accurate. I have both factory ammo and .357 formed. More powerful than the 25/20. I have seen a beautiful Win 92 in it. The gun shop owner that had it bragged on taking it to Africa on a safari for shooting the smaller stuff and loved it. I have always wanted to do a 92 in .256 mag.
twobit
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by twobit »

Good morning,

Based on the photos you sent me 16737 is not the original serial number of the rifle. The font style is not correct and the numbers too large for that range of production. In addition, the upper tang stamp on the receiver is not correct for a 5 digit gun. That tang stamp style did not come into use until around SN 501000 in 1909. It was used for 8 years until around SN 830000 in 1917 when "& FGN" was added to the end of the bottom line of print. The barre lis not original to the rifle either. The second "Oval P" proof stamp was added by Winchester to barrel sold to non factory gunsmiths for their use. Further the style of stamped writing on the barre ldid not come into use until approximately late 1925.
7AE8D983-BA36-47DF-84E8-80370FCED1D0.JPG
21F1065F-D270-4468-9A56-07A78D994D34.JPG
70B17C1B-42D9-4F87-8F01-D024D2C79CF9.JPG
This is how the rifle should be marked if it really were 16737.
unnamed (3).jpg
unnamed (1).jpg
unnamed (2).jpg
Michael
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Michael Puzio
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JFE
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by JFE »

Thanks Michael.

I'm not sure why there's such a disparity, particularly as the serial number doesn't appear to have been tampered with.

I only paid $180 for it at an auction and it will still make an interesting small game rifle, albeit now with a few questions about its history.
twobit
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by twobit »

JFE wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 9:28 am Thanks Michael.

I'm not sure why there's such a disparity, particularly as the serial number doesn't appear to have been tampered with.

I only paid $180 for it at an auction and it will still make an interesting small game rifle, albeit now with a few questions about its history.
The original serial number was buffed off and the "new" one applied. The problem is the bum who did it did not realize that he was using the wrong style of font. The 1,3, and 7 are definitively not correct for early SN's. All we can know for certain is that the receiver was manufactured between 1909 and 1917.

Michael
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Michael Puzio
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hayabusa
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by hayabusa »

WOW

Busa
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Tycer
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Re: Win 92 25/20 project rifle

Post by Tycer »

Cool. 8)
Kind regards,
Tycer
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