1873 cleaning rods threads

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coyote nose
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1873 cleaning rods threads

#1 Post by coyote nose » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:45 pm

Ok I have a question about the thread size for the original rods. Pirkle say 3/16X32 (ie 0.187"X32), internet says #9X32 (ie 0.177"X32). The internet says mic the diameter and if its close to 0.190 its fake, if close to 0.175 its real. Yet if Pirkle is right, and I suspect he is, the internet is wrong. So which is it...is Pirkle wrong? Here are three reasons I think it is NOT a #9 size:

1. One person years ago may have measured a WORN thread and got around 0.177" and thus assumed it was #9, the parroting of his statement has simply been repeated over and over on the internet (this is quite common).
2. Winchester used a 3/16 diameter thread on many of their screws so I can see them using a 3/16X32 thread.
3. A true 3/16 diameter thread will actually mic UNDER 0.187, add 100 years of wear and a 3/16 thread will probably measure close to 0.177....yet remember the wear is on the tips of the thread so a 3/16X32 thread, worn, would still not fit a #9X32 hole. Also, a true #9 thread would be under 0.177 (remember an actual thread has the tips rounded so they always mic under....go mic a 1/4X20 screw and see). So the old internet saw about if it mics 0.175 its a true #9 thread is wrong.

My hunch is if it mics around 0.175 it is real, BUT it is actually a 3/16 thread. If it were #9 it would mic around 0.165"

The reason I ask is I plan on making a gauge to take with me to gun shows that has a correct size thread, then I can simply try the rod thread on the gauge, but do I make the hole for the gauge a 3/16"X32 or for a #9X32 (I can make a 9X32 tap)?
Oh...one other question...I have heard you can also spot the fakes by looking at how the brass handle tip is attached....werent they screwed on while repros are push fit on?
So....Does anyone have an original rod? Can you mic the diameter of the thread for me and under magnification see how rounded the tip of the thread is?
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Sixgun
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Re: 1873 cleaning rods threads

#2 Post by Sixgun » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:30 pm

Here ya go Coyote Nose.......I love showing this stuff off.....this is one of my holy grails, a near new 97-98% made in 1891. Caliber is 38-40.----6

The rod is in the same shape as the gun and I don't think it was ever put together. The handle tip is steel, not brass and I did not try to unscrew it.

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GunnyMack
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Re: 1873 cleaning rods threads

#3 Post by GunnyMack » Sat Jun 08, 2019 5:56 am

3/16 is nothing more than a 10-32 screw. Just buy a 10-32 nut ant put it in your pocket for the gun shows. No need to make a gauge.
Normally the 3/16 designation for screws is a 10-24.
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coyote nose
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Re: 1873 cleaning rods threads

#4 Post by coyote nose » Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:21 am

Thank you Sixgun....your .176" thread diameter is only 0.001" less than what a sharp #9 thread would mic, I would expect a #9 thread to mic about 0.003" or 0.004" less and thus measure 0.173 to 0.174 or so when new, but a 3/16 to mic 0.184 or so. It is definitely closer to size 9. I guess Pirkle may have been wrong here. Hmmm........I think I may be making a #9 tap soon!
Gunnymack, actually #10 is not 3/16, it is a bit bigger thread, only by about 0.003" but on a newly cut thread it may be enough to interfere. I already have a true 3/16X32 tap and it does mic a bit smaller than my 10X32 taps.
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Re: 1873 cleaning rods threads

#5 Post by GunnyMack » Sat Jun 08, 2019 9:09 am

Just for kicks here is a drill/tap chart.
Screenshot_20190608-100612_Tap And Drill Chart Calculator.jpg
The diameters you say are closer to a #12...? Sounds like you are on the right path, let us know what you figure out!
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Re: 1873 cleaning rods threads

#6 Post by Sixgun » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:49 pm

Your welcome C.N.....feel free to ask......just got home from the gun club.....will be down in the dungeon tonight.----6
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