Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: AmBraCol, Hobie

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8849
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Bill in Oregon »

In chatting with friend Earl -- and in consulting a number of articles and Intenet sources -- it seems that in some calibers, the Winchester and Marlin chambers have virtually no throat, just a very short leade right into the lands and grooves. This usually works just dandy for standard jacketed bullet loads and factory ammo. But If you like to run cast boolits, this can be a real problem, as any mold that throws a slug with a short, full-diameter section forward of the crimp groove will likely not chamber. One solution is to avoid such molds, or seat the boolit deeper in the case -- a very poor solution in my book. The other is to have some throat reamed into that barrel; less that one caliber's worth would provide much greater load flexibility.
So, who has done this? Did you get your reamer from good old Dave Manson, or maybe from PTG out in Oregon? Can this be done by hand or is it really a job for a skilled smith?
Thinking about this topic as I consider various .35 Remington levergun options.
Pete44ru
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11242
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:26 am

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Pete44ru »

.

Reaming the throat may turn out to be an exercise in frustration if/when the loaded OAL cartridge length is too long to cycle/feed through the action.

This issue is common in certain models of leverguns.

Before throating, I would respectfully suggest assembling the boolit of your choice into an empty/unprimed case (to make the boolit easy to remove from the empty case), and load it into the magazine to test feeding (even though the longer cartridge won't chamber fully).


….
User avatar
Grizz
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 11808
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:15 pm

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Grizz »

I recall that back a while during the heady days of the H&R barrel switching program, it seemed common that folks were using and passing around chamber reamers for the exact purpose of easing the saami spec chambers with a leade. anyone recall this? There was a website devoted to the devotees of the break action single shots, but I don't recall the URL. I think that site and the others associated with it would be prime info resources.

It seems like a common one was 45/70 so that longer bullets could be seated. I also think I recall that it was an accurizing strategy.

I found that my longest 45/70 load, the 525gr BTB, seats in all the 45/70s I've shot it from. For testing a dummy load, don't forget to size it with the bullet seater, otherwise you might get a false positive when trying to chamber them.

I also seem to recall that a common bullet seating strategy was to close the action on a round looking for the rifling to engrave the ogive, to set the seating depth. I never got to that point because the crimp groove in the BTB is perfect, as near as I can tell, and I never tried to seat it out. just ramblin' from the first pot of coffee. Good day Y'all,
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8849
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Pete, of course you make an excellent point. I brought this up just trying to think of the variables that might go into getting a "new" .35-Remington levergun up and running a good, heavy cast boolit for elk use this fall. Don't even have the rifle yet, and no reaming may be necessary -- or I simply order a mold that fits from Tom at Accurate. I was just curious about the process of adding a bit of throat to a rifle without one, and with just a very short leade.
Here's a photo of the NOE 360-230 boolit next to a 200-grain Remington Corelokt and a .35 Rem. case. I think it could be crimped in the grease groove below the crimp groove and still feed, but you can see that big hunk of .358 diameter shank that would require some throat to fit.
Grizz, I did have a Postell-like mold for .45-70 that would not chamber in a Model 1884 Trapdoor -- only trouble I ever had with .45-70 cast.

Imagefullsizeoutput_1010 by ComeWatson, on Flickr
ywaltzucanrknrl
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:58 pm

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by ywaltzucanrknrl »

My Marlin 45-70,1895 made in the 1990's is the only lever action I've had trouble with. Thought about opening up the throat, but in the end just trimmed brass or picked up Hornady brass made for the Leverevolution rounds. I only had the issue with certain cast bullets---designs with very little ogive taper.
User avatar
J Miller
Member Emeritus
Posts: 14880
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:46 pm
Location: Not in IL no more ... :)

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by J Miller »

Many yeas ago I had a early 60s Win 94 in 30-30 that would not chamber anything other than Winchester factory ammo or hand loads using Speer or Sierra bullets. I was so frustrated with it I traded it off. Back then I knew nothing of throating chambers.

My current 1950 vintage 94 30-30 with the bad chamber will not chamber loads with Lyman 311041 cast or any plated bullets. I have a replacement barrel that will go on it as soon as I can figure out how to find a suitable work bench.

Joe
***Be sneaky, get closer, bust the cap on him when you can put the ball where it counts ;) .***
User avatar
Shasta
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1556
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:50 pm
Location: Shasta County, the far right stronghold in California

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Shasta »

Several years ago I bought a used Winchester 94 Canadian Centennial 30-30 with 26" octagon barrel (mfg 1971) with the specific intent to shoot metallic silhouette using a Lyman 311041 cast lead bullet. I loaded five test rounds and they fed through the magazine fine but would not quite chamber all the way as the bullet was into the rifling. I do a lot of business with that particular shop, so I took the rifle back with some dummy rounds to have their gunsmith lengthen the throat a bit. It must have been a very easy task for him as I got the rifle back the next day and the repair ticket said "No Charge"!
Since then I have fired thousands of those cast lead bullets and the rifle shoots them very well. I have had a good many 30-30's over the years, but this is the only one that needed throat reaming to fire a cast lead bullet.

Shasta
California Rifle & Pistol Association LIFE Member
National Rifle Association BENEFACTOR LIFE Member


http://www.hcrpclub.org/schedule.html

avatar pic is Shasta Dam, Shasta Lake, & Mt. Shasta
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8849
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Shasta, I had one of those long-barreled Canadian Centennial 94s as well, but traded it off after finding that nice, stiff octagon barrel on the heavy side. Accurate rifle, though. Glad you got that throat sorted.
User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3423
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by earlmck »

Looking at your picture Bill, it looks like a little throat work and you'd be able to use that nice 230 grain bullet just fine. There's gotta' be some folks on here who have done the hand ream job on 35 Remington to get a decent throat on one. I'm sure I have read about it being a not uncommon practice: just something I have not ever done.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry
buckeyeshooter
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1253
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by buckeyeshooter »

Pete44ru wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 9:37 am .

Reaming the throat may turn out to be an exercise in frustration if/when the loaded OAL cartridge length is too long to cycle/feed through the action.

This issue is common in certain models of leverguns.

Before throating, I would respectfully suggest assembling the boolit of your choice into an empty/unprimed case (to make the boolit easy to remove from the empty case), and load it into the magazine to test feeding (even though the longer cartridge won't chamber fully).


….
This mirrors my experience, generally the limiting factor is the length that feeds and not the design of the bullet.
rossim92
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1416
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2011 2:42 am
Location: mechanicsville, md.

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by rossim92 »

just a thought. What would happen if the grease grooves were spiral instead of in lands? would that work against barrel rifling? hard to seat and crimp?
Rossi 92 .357 lever , and a cz pcr 9mm
Henry .22 lever, Remington speedmaster 552 .22 lr
Marlin Glenfield .22 boltaction
gforce 12ga semi
Taylor's Tactical 1911 A1 FS in .45acp
winchester 1873 44.40
Marlin 336W .30.30
beeman sportsman rs2 dual caliber pellet rifle
henry .22 magnum pumpaction/octagon barrel
stag 5.56 m4 with reddot
User avatar
crs
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3153
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 10:32 am
Location: Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by crs »

Bill,
As you know the chamber of my Miroku 1895 .405 WCF was extended to allow Woodleigh 400 grain bullets to be crimped at the cannelure.
This has worked well and it also lowered peak chamber pressures for all loads. I am happy to report that there has been no measureable change in accuracy or velocity in either factory ammo or my other reloads.
The only negative is that the 1895 magazine can hold only two such extended length cartridges. So, when hunting DG, I first loaded two 300 grain NF FPS, then two 400 grain Woodies, and put one Woodie in the chamber. That worked out well.

PS the 400 grain Woodies at 2076 fps MV are NOT plinking loads.
CRS, NRA Benefactor Member, TSRA, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center
Android Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/
Bill in Oregon
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 8849
Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2008 10:05 am
Location: Sweetwater, TX

Re: Let's talk levergun rifle throats

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Charles, you have had so much fun and service from your .405. Good to hear the throating seemed to have nothing but positives.
Post Reply