Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

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EG73
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Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#1 Post by EG73 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:28 pm

Always wondered this.

In regards to firearm serial numbers, whenever an American posts there number in a forum it’s always like 12**

Whilst on the Australian forums I’m on we just go 1234

Don’t bother hiding it etc. So my question is - why do people hide the number?

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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#2 Post by rossim92 » Wed May 08, 2019 5:58 pm

I wanna know also.
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#3 Post by crs » Wed May 08, 2019 6:59 pm

Maybe they know it was STOLEN AND DO NOT WANT THE COPS TO SEE THE FULL NUMBER?
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#4 Post by JimT » Wed May 08, 2019 7:20 pm

Whenever I have done that it was because I didn't want anyone to know. It was not a stolen gun as I have had it since I bought it. Just because.

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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#5 Post by Old Savage » Wed May 08, 2019 7:23 pm

Just sort of a custom here.
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#6 Post by AJMD429 » Wed May 08, 2019 8:36 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 7:23 pm
Just sort of a custom here.
Yep.

Think of it this way.....we've seen everyplace else get guns confiscated, after they were just 'registered' under some lame excuse, so we want 'plausible deniability'....."what gun....'1234...?'....no that's not the one I had; I had some other one.....I forget the number on it though...."

I'm not sure it would work though; it seems the only realistic defense against gun confiscation is to REFUSE to 'register' them in the first place. Widespread anonymous civilian ownership of 'military-style' firearms appears to be the single best way to assure a society will remain stable and not morph into a police-state.

Otherwise, bullets wind up being the next step, which seldom ends well (although I'd say the American Revolution is a sterling example of an exception to that).
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#7 Post by Pete44ru » Wed May 08, 2019 9:25 pm

.

Firstly, it's nobody's business what the SN is of a firearm someone else owns.

It's also a hedge/defense against the possibility that some lowlife will give the SN to law enforcement, claiming that the gun with that SN was stolen from them whenever.

Human beings being human, the accused may not have saved, or even received (as in the case of a local F-to-F buy), a bill of sale that proves their legitimate ownership.

The claimant may even have gone as far as making up a bill of sale in their name, in an effort to bolster their false claim.


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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#8 Post by FWiedner » Wed May 08, 2019 9:40 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 8:36 pm

I'm not sure it would work though; it seems the only realistic defense against gun confiscation is to REFUSE to 'register' them in the first place. Widespread anonymous civilian ownership of 'military-style' firearms appears to be the single best way to assure a society will remain stable and not morph into a police-state.

Otherwise, bullets wind up being the next step, which seldom ends well (although I'd say the American Revolution is a sterling example of an exception to that).
Tangent Alert...

Sure, the citizens are still armed, but there are politicians openly advocating for door to door confiscation, mass arrest and imprisonment, and even the use of nuclear arms on U.S. soil against disobedient American citizens.

They allow the citizens to remain armed in order to "Soothe the savage beast". It creates a false sense of security, when the truth is that elements of our government are willing and prepared to kill us all.

Look at society. There is no privacy. Your every electronic communication, all of your purchases and financial transactions, are recorded and stored for no other reason than to use the information against you at some future date. Perhaps it's hard to recognize, but the U.S. A. is already an authoritarian police state. Just because they haven't yet kicked down your door in the middle of the night doesn't mean they wouldn't hesitate to do so.

:|
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#9 Post by EG73 » Thu May 09, 2019 8:04 am

Thanks for the answers. I just assumed it was “if this gun was stolen at some point I don’t want the owner recognising the number and wanting it back”. Which is pretty dodgy lol.

Anyways, cheers lads :)

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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#10 Post by marlinman93 » Thu May 09, 2019 9:59 am

I totally agree with Pete's reasoning, and that is why I don't post the full number on my guns. Many of mine are old antique guns that came to me as cash purchases at guns shows, so no sales receipt. If someone knew the full serial number they could (as Pete mentioned) claim their stolen gun was the one I had if they simply made up a false receipt.
I actually had this happen many years ago when displaying my guns at a National NRA Gun Show. A man came up to my table and claimed a Schoyen Ballard I had on display was his stolen gun. He was extremely agitated, and no doubt had indeed had a gun stolen that quite possibly was similar. He demanded I let him exam my Ballard, and I told him in no uncertain terms he couldn't even touch the gun without law enforcement there.
I asked if he'd filed a police report, and if the report listed the gun's serial number. He assured me he had, so I told him to go get a copy and bring it back. Then with law enforcement at the show, we'd compare his report to my gun and I'd gladly hand the gun over to him. In this particular case I did have a receipt, as I'd purchased the gun from my LGS.
He left the table and said he'd be back the next day with his police report. I never saw him again, and I realized either it was a scam, or he didn't have any serial number listed on his police report.
I never allow strangers to handle guns I own, and I wont post serial numbers complete on any public forum. Too easy to file a false report with police once someone has your information, and probably pictures you posted with it!
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#11 Post by gamekeeper » Thu May 09, 2019 10:33 am

Good question, good answers.... :wink:
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#12 Post by Marvin S » Thu May 09, 2019 10:43 am

Pete44ru wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:25 pm
.

Firstly, it's nobody's business what the SN is of a firearm someone else owns.

It's also a hedge/defense against the possibility that some lowlife will give the SN to law enforcement, claiming that the gun with that SN was stolen from them whenever.

Human beings being human, the accused may not have saved, or even received (as in the case of a local F-to-F buy), a bill of sale that proves their legitimate ownership.

The claimant may even have gone as far as making up a bill of sale in their name, in an effort to bolster their false claim.

.
Exactly this! The main reason I didn’t list them.

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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#13 Post by AJMD429 » Thu May 09, 2019 1:32 pm

"It's also a hedge/defense against the possibility that some lowlife will give the SN to law enforcement, claiming that the gun with that SN was stolen from them whenever."

Wow....I thought I was fairly non-naive, but I hadn't thought of THAT....

Makes sense though.
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#14 Post by Larkbill » Tue May 14, 2019 5:17 pm

If I had any guns (mine were all lost in a boating accident) I would never consider putting the serial numbers in any public forum for all the reasons Pete cited.
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#15 Post by Twodot » Tue May 14, 2019 8:39 pm

Marvin S wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 10:43 am
Pete44ru wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:25 pm
.

Firstly, it's nobody's business what the SN is of a firearm someone else owns.

It's also a hedge/defense against the possibility that some lowlife will give the SN to law enforcement, claiming that the gun with that SN was stolen from them whenever.

Human beings being human, the accused may not have saved, or even received (as in the case of a local F-to-F buy), a bill of sale that proves their legitimate ownership.

The claimant may even have gone as far as making up a bill of sale in their name, in an effort to bolster their false claim.

.
Exactly this! The main reason I didn’t list them.
Can anyone actually point to a real life example of this happening? Or is this another piece of internet "wisdom" like the one that claims handloads should never be used in your every day carry gun because .... you know the rest.?

And for the record, I never will post a serial number on line, just because.
..

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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#16 Post by COSteve » Wed May 15, 2019 10:37 am

There is a point in security levels that is actually relevant here as well. It's a principle known as 'need to know' and it forms the basis for the higher level SCI and above security systems (well above confidential, secret, and top secret where clearance at a level gives permission to see that level whether needed for the job or not). Basically, it's the premise that even though a person may have the clearances and credentials to be 'read in' to a certain type of information, without a firm 'need to know' that information to perform the job, they are denied it.

That principle is effective here as well. Just because you have the ability to share information with someone doesn't mean that you should. Just because you trust a person doesn't mean they have a need for all your information. The common idea of sharing all one's dealings and comings and goings on Facebook and twitter the younger folks have taken to these days isn't fundamentally a good idea. Telling the world where you are real time is dangerous because you are also telling them where you are not, i.e. your description of your day at the beach also tells everyone that you're not home. Something a would be burglar or porch pirate would find useful.

If one stops and asks themselves "Why does the person I'm thinking of sharing something with need, not just want that information?" before sharing it they will likely find that in most cases there is no upside to sharing it while there are very real downside risks.
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Re: Question for the American members regarding serial numbers.

#17 Post by Pete44ru » Wed May 15, 2019 10:54 am

Marvin S wrote:
Thu May 09, 2019 10:43 am
Pete44ru wrote:
Wed May 08, 2019 9:25 pm
.

Firstly, it's nobody's business what the SN is of a firearm someone else owns.

It's also a hedge/defense against the possibility that some lowlife will give the SN to law enforcement, claiming that the gun with that SN was stolen from them whenever.

Human beings being human, the accused may not have saved, or even received (as in the case of a local F-to-F buy), a bill of sale that proves their legitimate ownership.

The claimant may even have gone as far as making up a bill of sale in their name, in an effort to bolster their false claim.


Can anyone actually point to a real life example of this happening ?

Or is this another piece of internet "wisdom" ?



Yes.

A fellow gun club member had that pulled on him about 4 years ago, but luckily had a bill of sale that pre-dated the date of the so-called theft/claim.

This is why I place the bill-of-sales I get with a gun under the gun's grips or buttplate.


.
IF IN THESE TYMES OF JEOPARDY,
MORTAL PERIL INVADES THY THOUGHT,
TAKE UP THIS TRVSTY PIECE,
TRVST IN THY GOD, AND FEAR THEE NAUGHT.

(The avatar is me, in 1948 ! )

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