Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

Welcome to the Leverguns.Com Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here ... politely.

Moderators: Hobie, AmBraCol

Forum rules
Welcome to the Leverguns.Com General Discussions Forum. This is a high-class place so act respectable. We discuss most anything here other than politics... politely.

Please post political post in the new Politics forum.
Post Reply
Message
Author
milton
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#1 Post by milton » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:54 pm

I would like to open a discussion on something I am working on presently but have not done much experimentation on.I am going to work up some .357 mag loads for my Rossi using a coated 160 grain cast SWC with max loads of 2400 and CCI small rifle primers.I am concerned about possible problems with loaded cartridges firing in the tube during recoil.I have read two articles by R.W.Ballou and noticed that someone stated that Tim Sundles went to rifle primers in 44 mag loads for lever guns due to a chain fire episode with his ammo and I guess there are more discussions available but I would like to get some actual users input to this continuing question.Have any here had actual tube magazine problem with .357 ammo loaded with a full magazine while firing your rifle?
"Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance."

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24770
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#2 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:38 pm

This will be a lively topic.

There are some prior posts on this if you use the search function, too.
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

Stevie
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 112
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 2:47 pm

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#3 Post by Stevie » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:52 pm

Semi wad-cutter .357 magnum I would imagine would be just fine in a tube magazine rifle. Not really much recoil and flat nose bullets. Unless you drop the carbine off a cliff and it lands butt first I would think the danger minimal.

Seems the danger is in heavier recoiling arms where it really kicks back...loaded column of cartridges slips up the tube enough to come back and bump bullets and primers together....this is why flat-nose lead bullets are recommended for the tube loaders.

I could see a really hot and heavy loaded .44 mag having enough inertia to light off a stack of cartridges with an improper bullet....but really with proper tube feed bullets and magnum pistol primers I would think even the .44 mag safe. Rifle and pistol primers are not particularly interchangeable...there is a height difference

Pisgah
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1492
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 9:01 pm
Location: SC

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#4 Post by Pisgah » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:17 pm

Properly-seated primers and semi-wadcutters should pose no danger.

User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2833
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#5 Post by earlmck » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:59 am

I've been interested in this question since I read Mr. Ballou's first article a number of years ago, mostly as it applies to using pointy bullets. From R.W. Ballou's research we see that even if you could get a cartridge to go off in the tubular magazine it might scare the peewaddin out of you but wouldn't likely cause physical damage.

But there have been (that I could find) two instances where a levergunner suffered considerable damage from what appeared to be a detonation in the tubular magazine. Both these were with large meplat semi-wadcutters in 44 magnum. My guess is that in order to do the physical damage those events caused the cartridge that fired was not one of those in the magazine but rather had to be the one inside the action where the primer somehow got fired by contact with the limiter at the back end of the cartridge lifter, and most likely a large rifle primer used so that there was some slight protrusion.

Seat those primers properly and if you have any problems let us know and we can give you an award for "First time ever".
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry

milton
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#6 Post by milton » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:12 pm

earlmck,I read the report on the 44 mag and the rifle was a Rossi '92.The author stated that he was injured by the blast of the tube and it was due to three things 1. He was using Federal primers(very sensitive ) 2. He was using a fast pistol powder.Although this had nothing directly responsible for the rounds firing,if the powder had been slower the released gas from the primer strike and initial cartridge firing would have not have been released in the quantity and speed to cause all the rounds to fire in the tube and 3. Due to the diameter of the 44 mag round being close to the diameter of the tube with a relatively small rim diameter the rounds were lined up perfectly nose to primer.
He believes that if he had changed one or two of those factors he would not have had the problem,especially if he changed the to a less sensitive primer.
I was hoping someone who had fired their Rossi a bunch would give their experience.
"Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance."

User avatar
1894c
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 3217
Joined: Fri Oct 02, 2009 8:48 pm
Location: possibly earth...

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#7 Post by 1894c » Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:48 pm

earlmck -- scare the peewaddin... i'm not sure what the peewaddin"is, but i sure know that i don't want to know anything about it either... that comment made my day... :)

User avatar
Griff
Posting leader...
Posts: 18539
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: OH MY GAWD they installed a STOP light!!!

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#8 Post by Griff » Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:37 pm

Pisgah wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:17 pm
Properly-seated primers and semi-wadcutters should pose no danger.
↑↑↑ What he said.

I've had leverguns in .44Mag and still have them in .45 Colt and .38/.357Mag. With basically flat nosed bullets and properly seated primers, in more than 40 years of personal history w/'em, I've never experienced any sort of problem, whether the mag is full or nearly empty. Whether litely loaded or magnums. Even with +P .45 Colt. The only mag tube detonations I've read about with flat nosed bullets have been in the reproduction 1860 Henry. Each of them have been described as the user dropping the rounds into a vertical or nearly vertical mag tube.

I'm not saying you couldn't replicate his findings in the field... But, how many millions of such rounds have been fired from the how many millions of such guns with nary an anecdotal reference leads me to doubt the veracity of said reports.
Griff,
SASS/CMSA #93
NRA Patron
GUSA #93

There is a fine line between hobby & obsession!
AND... I'm over it!!
No I ain't ready, but let's do it anyway!

milton
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#9 Post by milton » Thu Apr 11, 2019 4:51 am

Griff,Thank the heck out of ya!!! I was hoping for experience and you provided it,thank you very much!! Now to the range! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
"Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance."

User avatar
AJMD429
Posting leader...
Posts: 24770
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:03 am
Location: Hoosierland
Contact:

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#10 Post by AJMD429 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:00 am

"....and most likely a large rifle primer used so that there was some slight protrusion."

So that would be a vote against using rifle primers...!
Doctors for Sensible Gun Laws
"first do no harm" - gun control LAWS lead to far more deaths than 'easy access' ever could.


Want REAL change? . . . . . "Boortz/Nugent in 2012 . . . ! "

User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2833
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#11 Post by earlmck » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:20 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:00 am
"....and most likely a large rifle primer used so that there was some slight protrusion."

So that would be a vote against using rifle primers...!
Yes, but only in the LARGE size where the primers are slightly different in the height dimension. For small primers, pistol and rifle are identical in all dimensions. My recollection is that one of our fellow levergunners (I think COSteve) posted here about talking with a lady in CCI and being told that small rifle and small pistol magnum primers were the same primer in all respects but put into different boxes.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry

User avatar
earlmck
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 2833
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:10 am
Location: pert-neer middle of Oregon

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#12 Post by earlmck » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:02 am

milton wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:12 pm
earlmck,I read the report on the 44 mag and the rifle was a Rossi '92.The author stated that he was injured by the blast of the tube and it was due to three things 1. He was using Federal primers(very sensitive ) 2. He was using a fast pistol powder.Although this had nothing directly responsible for the rounds firing,if the powder had been slower the released gas from the primer strike and initial cartridge firing would have not have been released in the quantity and speed to cause all the rounds to fire in the tube and 3. Due to the diameter of the 44 mag round being close to the diameter of the tube with a relatively small rim diameter the rounds were lined up perfectly nose to primer.
He believes that if he had changed one or two of those factors he would not have had the problem,especially if he changed the to a less sensitive primer.
I was hoping someone who had fired their Rossi a bunch would give their experience.
milton, here's a link to the thread where I had pictures of my attempts to set off a primer in a tubular magazine. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32111

I never did build the wildcat 22 on a Rossi action I was contemplating at the time I started the thread but these days I do blithely load pointy bullets in 218 Bee and 25/35 with no feelings of trepidation. And have shot some 110 grain spitzers in the 30/30. But most of my shootin' is with cast so I really don't put a bunch of jacketed spitzers downrange.
The greatest patriot...
is he who heals the most gullies.
Patrick Henry

milton
Levergunner 2.0
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#13 Post by milton » Thu Apr 11, 2019 5:41 pm

Thank you very much for the link!!! The entire thread was an enjoyable and education one!
"Knowledge without understanding is a dangerous thing. For a little knowledge entices us to walk its path, a bit more provides the foundation on which we take our stand, and a sufficient amount can erect a wall of knowledge around us, trapping us in our own ignorance."

User avatar
Rusty
Advanced Levergunner
Posts: 9006
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:37 pm
Location: Central Fla

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#14 Post by Rusty » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:10 pm

In regards to a properly seated primer I'll say that I've been reloading since 1973 and I have never put brass thru a tumbler or any kind of cleaner. I do however always run a small screwdriver around in the primer pocket to make sure there's no carbon in it so the primer will seat properly.
If you're gonna be stupid ya gotta be tough-
Isiah 55:8&9

It's easier to fool people than it is to convince them they have been fooled.

User avatar
gundownunder
Senior Levergunner
Posts: 1413
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2007 12:02 pm
Location: Perth. Western Australia

Re: Rossi '92 Magazine Tube.

#15 Post by gundownunder » Fri Apr 12, 2019 6:24 pm

I've been shooting a .357 rifle with full snort silhouette loads for the past 10 years, all with CCI small rifle primers
I started with a full load of 2400 and a 175 grain bullet, then moved to 2205 (4227), and now use a 180 grain bullet and an over the book load of Win 296.
My current load is doing 1650 fps out of a 20" barrel, and 1750 fps out of my brothers 24" Rossi.
Any bullet with a meplat at least as large as the diameter of the primer would be safe in the 357.
Over the years I've managed to really mangle a few of those primers in the press when seating them, without ever having one pop on me. I couldn't imagine a bullet setting one off in the tube unless it was a really pointy, fmj type of bullet.
Bob
***********************************
You have got to love democracy-
It lets you choose who your dictator is going to be.
***********************************

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jwstanfi and 4 guests