Winchester 1866 SRC

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Shrapnel
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Winchester 1866 SRC

#1 Post by Shrapnel » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:24 am

I have been chasing a few Winchesters around for several years and finally got one. He has some nice old stuff, but we haven't been able to complete a deal other than this 1866. It was made in 1885 and is in real good condition...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#2 Post by .45colt » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:31 am

All I can say is :shock: :shock: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: .

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#3 Post by Pitchy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:40 am

UFDA dats purdy, congrats. 8)
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#4 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:23 am

That is one desirable Winchester congratulations...... :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#5 Post by Sixgun » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:34 am

That's a nice rifle...in my early days of collecting...early seventies.....66's, along with high condition 73's, 76's, and 86's were out of the scene...being sucked up into collections.......Like early single action Colts, there's a low survival rate of 66's

Does it letter with the engraving?

Any way of making that go bang ...just for the hell of it? I'm thinking a milled case that accepts a .22 rf. blank, unless of course, it's one of the rare c.f. jobs.---6
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#6 Post by Shrapnel » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:40 am

Sixgun wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:34 am
That's a nice rifle...in my early days of collecting...early seventies.....66's, along with high condition 73's, 76's, and 86's were out of the scene...being sucked up into collections.......Like early single action Colts, there's a low survival rate of 66's

Does it letter with the engraving?

Any way of making that go bang ...just for the hell of it? I'm thinking a milled case that accepts a .22 rf. blank, unless of course, it's one of the rare c.f. jobs.---6
It is a centerfire, made in 1885. I tried to load a 44-40 through the magazine, but it was too long. I am not sure how these worked, it should be a 44-40 as late as it is. the bore is bright and extremely good rifling. I doubt it is a factory engraved gun. The only thing more rare than an engraved 1866 is an unengraved 1866...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#7 Post by fordwannabe » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:58 pm

Did you get any of the backstory on it? The gun is super cool, but I bet the story is even better. if it can be found out.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#8 Post by Sixgun » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:09 pm

Sharpnel......IF you re concerned about shooting it....and I'm sure you are....something in the back of my head tells me Mike V. wrote about that.......I have the info about that buried somewhere.....

That's a very interesting toy....I'd like to see how it turns out.....

I've always said if a barrel is straight, the gun works and it has a centrally located firing pin, it can be made to go bang. I bet there's a 40 caliber rifle cartridge that can be reworked....405? 40-70?...just going out of my head....41 Colt? This is interesting...I'm gonna get my micrometer and old bullet collection out later...or maybe just dig out Cartridges of the World or something Waters wrote back in the day......44 Russian?---6
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#9 Post by KWK » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:37 pm

Very nice, Shrapnel.

Barnes suggested making brass from .303 Savage cases. However, the easy approach is to just buy turned brass from Rocky Mtn.

Does anyone know how many rifles were made in Henry CF? Hmmm, you said "it should be a 44-40 as late as it is"; did they actually make them in .44 WCF, too?

The modern replicas, with their lifter area stretched to take .44 WCF, just don't look quite right. I wish they were made in .45 AutoRim, or even .45 ACP or the like, to get the proper receiver proportions. I'd really like to see Henry Repeating get together with StarLine to make a '66 in Henry CF.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#10 Post by J Miller » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:03 pm

Wasn't the 44 American the same physical size as the 44 RF only CF? I sincerely doubt it's a 44-40.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#11 Post by 6pt-sika » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:56 pm

Very nice ! About 10-12 years ago a guy about five miles from me had two Winchester’s for sale . One was an 1866 that I assume was rimfire and not in world class shape think he wanted $3500 . The other and what intrested me was an 1876 in 50-95 it wasn’t perfect but it was shootable only problem was he wanted a couple G’s more then I could afford to pay at the time 🙄 Such is life 😂 By no means am I a Winchester collector/accumulator but an 1876 in 50-95 or an 1886 in 50-100/110 will always get my intrest .
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#12 Post by KWK » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:30 pm

J Miller wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:03 pm
Wasn't the 44 American the same physical size as the 44 RF only CF?
The dimensions in Barnes' book shows them close but not quite the same, but he used calipers instead of referring to factory drawings. He did speculate you could form it from .44 Mag brass and claimed there were RCBS dies to do so. So, one might look through the RCBS listings to see if they have reforming dies for the .44 Henry CF. Which brings to mind Buffalo Arms, and there you go.

Get a box from both sources and give us a range report, Shrapnel.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#13 Post by wm » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:54 pm

Very nice. Very, very nice.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#14 Post by Shrapnel » Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 pm

J Miller wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:03 pm
Wasn't the 44 American the same physical size as the 44 RF only CF? I sincerely doubt it's a 44-40.

Joe
I am sure you must be close. I talked to Mike Venturino about it and he said he got one of Hank Williams guns shooting of the same era. It isn't 44-40, as I did try to run one through the magazine and the action is just too short...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#15 Post by Rube Burrows » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:07 am

Very cool.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#16 Post by KWK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:24 am

Shrapnel wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 pm
... the action is just too short...
Rock Island Armory mentions "A few late production 1866s were configured to fire .44 Henry centerfire, and period conversions may have been performed to fire .44 Henry CF or other .44 caliber cartridges available at the time." This cartridge collector's site describes a number of centerfire conversions done in Brazil and the cartridge used. Good luck.

No barrel markings?

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#17 Post by Shrapnel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:27 am

I pulled the stock and the assembly numbers on the stock and frame match...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#18 Post by Shrapnel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:20 pm

I went over to Mike Venturino's house and we messed around with some brass, bullets and sizing dies and got it shooting...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#19 Post by KWK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 4:44 pm

Good work. And what is the cartridge?

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#20 Post by Sixgun » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:51 pm

Neato Shrapnel......what was the groove diameter?..... I read where they are smaller than 44-40's.....heel bullet or open base or did ya just get something in there that would shoot?

A '66 and its original chambering is the only popular old cartridge I've never shot....you mind if I stop over after our handgun match to test her out? I figure I can make the 2500 miles in a couple of hours. :D ---6
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#21 Post by Shrapnel » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:03 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:51 pm
Neato Shrapnel......what was the groove diameter?..... I read where they are smaller than 44-40's.....heel bullet or open base or did ya just get something in there that would shoot?

A '66 and its original chambering is the only popular old cartridge I've never shot....you mind if I stop over after our handgun match to test her out? I figure I can make the 2500 miles in a couple of hours. :D ---6
I will be here all day tomorrow, come on over...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#22 Post by hfcable » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:05 pm

KWK wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:37 pm
Very nice, Shrapnel.

Barnes suggested making brass from .303 Savage cases. However, the easy approach is to just buy turned brass from Rocky Mtn.

Does anyone know how many rifles were made in Henry CF? Hmmm, you said "it should be a 44-40 as late as it is"; did they actually make them in .44 WCF, too?

The modern replicas, with their lifter area stretched to take .44 WCF, just don't look quite right. I wish they were made in .45 AutoRim, or even .45 ACP or the like, to get the proper receiver proportions. I'd really like to see Henry Repeating get together with StarLine to make a '66 in Henry CF.
there was a henry in 44 CF at a big time auction house 10-15 years ago, maybe at rock island, with documentation etc
the write up said there were at least 3 of them made
cable

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#23 Post by hfcable » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:06 pm

KWK wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:24 am
Shrapnel wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:40 pm
... the action is just too short...
Rock Island Armory mentions "A few late production 1866s were configured to fire .44 Henry centerfire, and period conversions may have been performed to fire .44 Henry CF or other .44 caliber cartridges available at the time." This cartridge collector's site describes a number of centerfire conversions done in Brazil and the cartridge used. Good luck.

No barrel markings?
one of the winchester books says there were about 2000 1866’s made in centerfire.... no idea how many survived
cable

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#24 Post by Griff » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:26 pm

Very nice Shrapnel! I'll be thru your time zone Monday, but don't have time to stop and drool on your new toy! Have to make it later in the year... and yes, I'll bring my 40-90 so we can play properly!
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#25 Post by KWK » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:17 pm

hfcable wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:05 pm
there was a henry in 44 CF at a big time auction house... the write up said there were at least 3 of them made
Thanks. I didn't realize there were as many as a few thousand '66 made in CF, and I'd never heard of the Henry being made in it. I'm really surprised by the Henry. I thought the Henry CF cartridge was developed after 1873 and didn't think any Henry was made that late.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#26 Post by hfcable » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:38 am

KWK wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:17 pm
hfcable wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:05 pm
there was a henry in 44 CF at a big time auction house... the write up said there were at least 3 of them made
Thanks. I didn't realize there were as many as a few thousand '66 made in CF, and I'd never heard of the Henry being made in it. I'm really surprised by the Henry. I thought the Henry CF cartridge was developed after 1873 and didn't think any Henry was made that late.
it was a 44 CF cartridge but likely not one that ever went in to production - maybe the ancestor of the later 44 henry CF

IIRC the rifle went in the 100 G range or more
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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#27 Post by fordwannabe » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:25 am

Shrapnel that picture of you shootings the rifle with that beautiful background sure does make me homesick. I have lived in Pa longer than I lived in Montana but for some reason always consider it home.
a Pennsylvanian who has been accused of clinging to my religion and my guns......Good assessment skills.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#28 Post by Shrapnel » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:09 am

fordwannabe wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:25 am
Shrapnel that picture of you shootings the rifle with that beautiful background sure does make me homesick. I have lived in Pa longer than I lived in Montana but for some reason always consider it home.
That's Mikle Venturino's yard. We load stuff in his basement then step out the door and shoot at the gnomes in the rock garden...

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#29 Post by 6pt-sika » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:25 am

Glad you have it making noise ! Is it shooting decent groups or have you tried accuracy yet ? I’m waiting for you to take that thing and plunk a big bison “Dances with Wolves” style ! All BS aside it would be (I think) kinda neat to plunk an antelope or deer with the gun 8)
Parkers , 444 Marlin , 6.5mm's , Sika Deer and my family in the Philippines !

Go Manny Pacquiao !

"GO HARD or GO HOME" D.E. Sr.

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Re: Winchester 1866 SRC

#30 Post by 6pt-sika » Sat Apr 06, 2019 11:28 am

fordwannabe wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:25 am
Shrapnel that picture of you shootings the rifle with that beautiful background sure does make me homesick. I have lived in Pa longer than I lived in Montana but for some reason always consider it home.
That’s kinda backwards isn’t it moving east lols ! My old friends that were originally from Doylestown PA migrated to Buffalo WY about a dozen years ago . On a side note the father of this group who turned 83 on 4/2/19 also left us 4/2/19 Rest In Peace .
Parkers , 444 Marlin , 6.5mm's , Sika Deer and my family in the Philippines !

Go Manny Pacquiao !

"GO HARD or GO HOME" D.E. Sr.

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