Rattlesnakes.

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Bill in Oregon
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Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

I ran into three big, crabby diamondbacks yesterday leading a tour of a historic ranch house at the state park where I volunteer. Our tour members from Wisconsin were just thrilled. (The snakes were safely INSIDE the snake screen around the porch, the rascals.) Anyhow, this prompted a friend to direct me to this removal job last week in Albany, Texas. The calm professionalism of these gentlemen is something to be seen.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/rattlesnak ... any-texas/
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

I wouldn't have been so willing to relocate that many rattlesnakes. Those men are true professionals. I would have killed them and moved to a new house.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by gamekeeper »

I guess if if I lived somewhere that so many rattlers could take up lodgings under my house I would have thinned them out a bit myself, I suppose he was more of an indoor guy, seeing as he only found them when his TV broke.... :roll:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

If I can see the snake and it is not bothering anything, I am inclined to let it go. I have dogs, and if the snake and one of the dogs get tangled, the snake is going to find out what I can do. A good sharp hoe is deadly to snakes. My current dogs seem to be uninterested in snakes. The old Jack Russell mix would kill them. Snakes eat enough rodents to deserve a place in the wild. I just don't want my family or my dogs (sort of the same) to be bitten.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

With you Piller, they do us all a tremendous amount of good. When I get another dog, I will have him or her "snakeproofed."
The Central New Mexico Brittany Club brings in a guy with a snake and shock collar for a snakeproofing workshop every spring. Well worth it.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Sixgun »

I've never seen a poisonous snake here in my 64 years..don't have any...well, I hear there are copperheads..never saw one...if I did I'd kill it.....I've killed rattlesnakes upstate in the mountains....for most everything else, it's live and let live.

I kill every spider I see in the house. I've personally seen what they are capable of.

How anyone can like a creature that can hurt you bad makes me wonder.

Piller......how in the heck does a dog kill a rattlesnake without getting bit? They must be some baaaaaddd dogs.--6
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

Six, google Jack Russell vs Cape Cobra. That video is pretty much what is built in to every JRT that I have ever seen. There is a TV series with a husband and wife snake catchers in Cape Town, South Africa. They don't like Jack Russell Terriers because they kill everything but the black mamba. They claim that JRTs have nearly an even chance against a black mamba. Green mambas are no match for a JRT. JRTs are just too quick for most snakes. Sort of like Bruce Lee of the canine world.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Sixgun »

Piller....that was neat......I see the dogs reflexes are faster than the snakes.....but ...snakes got to win once in a while. THAT would really pizz me off....

The next video on You Tube was "rattin g with terriers"...dang rats living in the ground......I must be sissified living here in Pa.....seldom see any of that kind of neat stuff. Well, we have our more-than-fair-share of two legged rats......---6
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Blaine »

Those Mojave Greens scare the "urine" out of me. They got some sort of special venom that has nerve agent in it or something. My good friend, the wife of an army buddy got bit taking the dog out. Cornville, AZ. She died a couple times before she made it through. This has been years ago and both her legs still ain't right.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

Yes, the Mojave Green rattlesnakes have both hemotoxic venom of a viper and the neurotoxic venom of an elapid. They are deadly.

Yes, the snake wins once in a while. At least the JRT goes out doing what it loves.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

The Mojave Green is in a class by itself among the Crotalid genus, and in New Mexico, occurs mainly in two counties -- Hidalgo, the "Bootheel." and Otero, where I live.
Its supertoxic venom is said to be on a par with that of some of the Elapids -- cobras, kraits, sea snakes, and such. No thank you!
Piller, Doc, can you tell us anything about the two most common antivenins now in use -- CroFab and the recently-approved Anavip? I have heard CroFab was a breakthrough in that it uses sheep instead of horse serum, to which 75 percent of us are said to be allergic.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by .45colt »

I watched that video of the Jack Russell and the snake. flippin awesome. We spent a day several years ago at a distant relatives house several hours away. I was pretty bored went outside for a walk. they had a big useless cat, a Dalmatian and a Rat Terrier . The Terrier followed Me around like a Hawk , there was a ball lying on the ground and I gave it a good kick down the hill in the yard. He flew down the yard like a lunatic and brought it back. repeat over and over.. :lol: . at one point He ran the cat up a pine tree , after a while He body checked the Dalmatian like a hockey player, the Dalmatian looked at Me like "Help"... That Terrier made the trip worth while for Me. I found out last year when they moved they gave that dog away. I about cried.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

.45, a horse trainer I knew kept two dogs, a Jack Russell and a Great Dane. No need to say who was the absolute boss! 8)
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

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Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:47 am .45, a horse trainer I knew kept two dogs, a Jack Russell and a Great Dane. No need to say who was the absolute boss! 8)
Terriers (terrors) are the best. My erstwhile Boston was always king of whatever hill he was on.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by crs »

We have enough poisonous snakes in Texas that the few that I kill will not upset the ecosystem.
Plus we have enough non poisonous snake to eat the vermin after I knock off a bad snake or two.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Blaine »

crs wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:07 pm We have enough poisonous snakes in Texas that the few that I kill will not upset the ecosystem.
Plus we have enough non poisonous snake to eat the vermin after I knock off a bad snake or two.
Is it true that keeping chickens will knock out the snakes?
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Ysabel Kid »

Sixgun wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm I kill every spider I see in the house. I've personally seen what they are capable of.
I'm with you Six. Snakes don't really bother me. Spiders I can't stand. Let one live and you never know where it turns up! :shock:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Blaine, dunno about chickens, but have heard Guinea fowl do a job on them, as do hogs, which are quieter.
Charles, nothing at all wrong with being "selective."

:D
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

Bill, I am in retail, and as such I don't run into antivenin or anything like it. Since those are injections for hospitalized patients, they are in a different category from where I work. Avoiding horses as a source of white cells sounds like a wise idea to me. Yes, a majority of the population is allergic to horse serum.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by gak »

Mohaves are nasty. An older (but not elderly if I recall) woman was lost to one 8-10 or so years ago as she was walking along a trail in Yavapai County about 80 miles north of Phoenix. They can be found all over the lower to mid elevations of Arizona (with close relatives in southern Cal and New Mexico as mentioned), primarily desert, though not in the popuations statewide overall compared to their also nasty and better known diamondback cousins. Not all Mohaves have the magical neuro/hemotoxic blend--there are two different formulations--but those that do are plentiful enough and are the deadliest no leggeds in North America, maybe in all the Americas or at least on par with anything south of the border.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by gamekeeper »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:50 pm Blaine, dunno about chickens, but have heard Guinea fowl do a job on them, as do hogs, which are quieter.
Charles, nothing at all wrong with being "selective."

:D
A couple of years ago I saw a cock pheasant attacking something in the grass, he was determined to kill it, when I walked over to see what it was, I found a bright red dog lead coiled up in the grass, even I hesitated before I picked it up :oops: :lol:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Gak, I have heard that the venom of the Mojaves differs in toxicity from area to area. Boy, I'd love to see a map of this.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by crs »

Blaine asked "Is it true that keeping chickens will knock out the snakes?"
I have not heard that before, but chickens will eat most anything, including small snakes and lizards.

As a kid, we had many laying hens and some fighting roosters and no snakes, but we were in dry country and snakes were common only around water and rocky ground. We also had many dogs and cats (which will kill snakes) in the neighborhood plus lots of kids with sticks, stones, BB guns, and .22 rifles, all of which were not friendly to snakes. :)

Now, we have 20+ hens and are in better snake habitat. We have killed both poisonous and non poisonous snakes in the hen house and the yard. So, I have implemented a barren ground policy; mow closely and line trim closer seems to help as well as DCON in the tool shed and other places where dogs cannot frequent(reduces mice population which is a major attraction to snakes).

For some time, there has been evidence of snakes around the chickens and we/I kill all I find as they will eat the eggs. We have a new egg eater to deal with as three broken and eaten eggs were discovered last week in the hen house. ??? no clues yet, but there are loaded BB gun and pellet rifle in the tack room just waiting to be used.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

Charles, that could be a rat.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by gak »

Bill in Oregon wrote: Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:30 am Gak, I have heard that the venom of the Mojaves differs in toxicity from area to area. Boy, I'd love to see a map of this.
Bill, no easy answers on that one...appears it's a complex distribution. These look to be pretty good. The 2nd link especially gets into the geographic complexity. Not sure if these URLs will take.

https://snake-facts.weebly.com/mojave-rattlesnake.html
https://m.phys.org/news/2019-01-mojave- ... pread.html
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

That is quite interesting. I was not aware that the different venom types are not settling into whichever seems best suited for survival of the species in that particular location. Either way, I don't want to be on the receiving end of their bite.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by octagon »

Attitudes as regards bad snakes seems to be in part geographically derived. In W Texas, we are lousy with em, and shoot on site. Every last one. It is the only animal I kill just for being there. Neighbors daughter got bit a few years ago weeding her garden one morning. 70 or 80 Gs hospital Bill. If you tell folks around here you let a snake GO, they will look at you like you're an alien fresh from Jupiter.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by jeepnik »

In the southern most counties we have both red and pink rattlesnakes. Closely related to the green they also haves hemo/neuro venom. But they are much less aggressive than the greens.

As I understand it coloration is usually determined by habitat.
Last edited by jeepnik on Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

They are interesting critters, for sure, and tend to excite strong opinions. I have been told that among the main NM rattlers, the prairies tend to have the lousiest attitudes, but each snake has its own "personality" when it comes to irritability.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Four snakes on the ranch house tour today. Smallest about 4 1/2 feet. And one of our hikers nearly stepped on one down in the arroyo by the park visitor center. Temp today mid-80s here in south-central NM.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

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With the natural camoflauge of rettlesnakes, it is easy to fail to see them. I hope you are continually able to bring the tourists back without injury.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by crs »

So Bill,
Do you realize that if you had killed all the rattlers you have already seen on these tours, there might be none left to strike tourists?
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Charles, they are protected under state park wildlife policy. I guess the thinking is that if folks want to visit the northern Chihuahuan desert, they should get the full desert experience. We often get visitors from colder places and even from Europe who ask, "Can we please see one of your rattlesnakes?" :o :lol:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by AJMD429 »

I just treat venomous snakes like I would humans - an armed or large or aggressive person might be a 'potential threat' to me, but that is no reason to kill them 'just because they are scary'.

So, if I encounter a copperhead or rattler in the woods I leave it be, and give it room to get away, which it always does.

If I encounter one in the yard, I will leave it alone, unless it is up close to the house, where the little kids might be around (the venomous snakes in the U.S. are dangerous to kids but not as much to adults), I will take the time to relocate them to a more remote area of the property. If the capture/release doesn't go well, yes, I will kill the snake, but I see no reason to kill one of Gods creatures just because it 'scares' me, or because I don't think it is cute or pretty or cuddly enough for my taste.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Pisgah »

Sixgun wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm
How anyone can like a creature that can hurt you bad makes me wonder.

Oh, I don't know. I know from experience a cow can hurt you pretty dam**d bad, even kill you -- but I love 'em! Medium rare, please...
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by piller »

Pisgah wrote: Thu Mar 28, 2019 3:53 pm
Sixgun wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm
How anyone can like a creature that can hurt you bad makes me wonder.

Oh, I don't know. I know from experience a cow can hurt you pretty dam**d bad, even kill you -- but I love 'em! Medium rare, please...
Yep! And it doesn't taste like chicken. :lol:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

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45 rattlesnakes under my house would cause me to have a repticidal turn. Non venomous snakes are not nearly a problem to me. I live in town and there are little kids in the neighborhood. Venomous snakes cannot be left where a little kid or someone's pet could be bitten. When we go into the snake's territory, it is theirs. I have never been bitten, and in the Army we saw a bunch of them. I grew up in the semi-desert of Kansas and the rattlers were not too aggressive. 17 inches of rain per year in wet years is truly semi-desert.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by jeepnik »

Sixgun wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm How anyone can like a creature that can hurt you bad makes me wonder.
And yet we continue to marry some.
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by Bill in Oregon »

Oh, Jeepnik, not you too bro ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Rattlesnakes.

Post by gamekeeper »

jeepnik wrote: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:53 pm
Sixgun wrote: Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:38 pm How anyone can like a creature that can hurt you bad makes me wonder.
And yet we continue to marry some.
I got bit twice.... :evil:
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