One rifle, one pistol

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#101 Post by Sixgun » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:46 pm

Coloradoyaler wrote:
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My Choice. Big Horn Armory 500S&W and a S&W 500 6"
Colorado dude....I've been around one hell of a lot of guns in my time...a lot of big guns and a lot of little guns and most everything in between......in fact I'm taking the BAR out tomorrow with several hundred rounds...but DANG! that is the meanest levergun I have ever laid eyes on in my 64 years. Nice rifle....nice smith too..... :D ---6
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#102 Post by Sixgun » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:12 pm

Old Savage....I was the first poster on page three...don't I win some kind of a prize? I'll take one of your single action Colts if you don't mind. You can have the soft stuff that's all over where you live...I'll take the Colts...----6
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#103 Post by Poohgyrr » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 am

Well, for now anyway: a Para Ordnance P13-45 and my tuned 16” M92 in 44Special.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#104 Post by mickbr » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:27 am

This is an easy choice for me because I already made it. My only rifle is 357 rossi 1892, and I will say any 357 handgun with it.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#105 Post by Old Savage » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:53 am

Six, you get my recognition as the most interesting, entertaining and basically erudite writer on gun stuff since Skeeter Skelton.

I was thinking my Ruger 7 1/2"" 45 with an extra ACP cylinder and either my Rem Model 7 stainless in 7-08 it my 94 25-35 with the coveted shotgun safety. I better watch it or I am going to have to delete myself here.

I have to go see Desarae in a while so let's make her the soft stuff of the day.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#106 Post by David » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:26 am

Remember I'm a Remington stickler....
Remington model SEVEN , I have a model 7 can't remember if it was made in 1902 or 3, don't have the heart to let that one go that one might go into the casket. (it might get crowded)

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#107 Post by Old Savage » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:27 pm

Mine is a scope sighted bolt action.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#108 Post by David » Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:06 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:27 pm
Mine is a scope sighted bolt action.
Mines a 22lr Rolling Block it came out the the Karl F. Mouldenhauer Collection :)

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#109 Post by Old Savage » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:44 pm

I know these and have seen one. Knew there was a misunderstanding.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#110 Post by 3leggedturtle » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:26 pm

mickbr wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:27 am
This is an easy choice for me because I already made it. My only rifle is 357 rossi 1892, and I will say any 357 handgun with it.
Curious as to how you only have one rifle. Ive been downsizing the last few years and its getting harder each time to decide which one to sell next....... todd/3leg
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#111 Post by Old Savage » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:01 pm

Collector vs User 😁 Easy distinction.

With a .357 Trapper now ... wouldn't need anything else.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#112 Post by 3leggedturtle » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:48 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:01 pm
Collector vs User 😁 Easy distinction.
I can assure you i aint no collector... tho id be happy to sell any of my guns at "NIB" one of a kind prices!
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#113 Post by Catshooter » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:17 pm

Springfield 03A3, Glock 27. The pistol is set up for 9mm, 40 & 45 GAP.

Of course I cast & reload for both and that increases their versatility by quite a bit.

Both are dead reliable.

The 03 eats cast loads for lunch. A Lyman 3118 over 6.5 grains of Red Dot (about 1200 fps, 120 grains) is quiet and goes into an inch and a half at 100 yards. Over grown .22.


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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#114 Post by Grizz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:45 pm

Cat, that sounds like a good .308 load for the overgrown .22 role. really like that idea.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#115 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:16 pm

OK I've had a rethink :shock: perhaps I could have a lot of fun with a Marlin 1894CL in .32/20 with a matching .32/20 SSA Colt.
Cat sneeze loads for squirrels. Two guns I've wanted for too long, probably have to wait for hell to freeze over before I can get the pistol.…. :roll:
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#116 Post by Old Savage » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:37 pm

gk, your previous choice would actually allow you to get a cylinder which would handle cartridges in some calibers.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#117 Post by piller » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:55 pm

If the Medusa pistol were to be redone with stronger parts to eliminate the extraction issues and occasional breakages, it would be a candidate for the 1 pistol idea. Anything shorter than 9x18 has accuracy issues in the one I have fired, but the accuracy was good enough with that or longer cartridges.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#118 Post by piller » Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:57 pm

Perhaps a double action revolver which could use moon clips as well as standard .357 Mag rounds.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#119 Post by KeithNyst » Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:26 pm

I really had to think on this. Would I keep modern or old vintage; made an in between compromise and would go with a 1957 Savage Model 99F featherweight in .308 Win and a 1948 Colt Government Model .45ACP.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#120 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:45 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:37 pm
gk, your previous choice would actually allow you to get a cylinder which would handle cartridges in some calibers.
Yup but even if I found a cylinder I would then not legally be allowed any ammunition for it, plus the cylinder is verboten in this happy land were I live.... :x
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#121 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:47 pm

:cry:
Old Savage wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 1:37 pm
gk, your previous choice would actually allow you to get a cylinder which would handle cartridges in some calibers.
Yup but even if I found a cylinder I would then not legally be allowed any ammunition for it, plus the cylinder is verboten in this happy land were I live.... :cry:
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#122 Post by Catshooter » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:34 pm

Grizz wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:45 pm
Cat, that sounds like a good .308 load for the overgrown .22 role. really like that idea.
That bullet and Red Dot are a combination made in heaven.

Not tried it in the .308, but five grains in the .30-30 is mid-1200s and shoots very well. No recoil of course and very quiet.


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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#123 Post by Grizz » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:27 pm

Catshooter wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:34 pm
Grizz wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:45 pm
Cat, that sounds like a good .308 load for the overgrown .22 role. really like that idea.
That bullet and Red Dot are a combination made in heaven.

Not tried it in the .308, but five grains in the .30-30 is mid-1200s and shoots very well. No recoil of course and very quiet.


Cat
Perfect. Thanks again, going to try this one. I have a 30-30 too, I think. Somewhere. Where did I put that thing? 8)

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#124 Post by mickbr » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:53 am

3leggedturtle wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:26 pm
mickbr wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:27 am
This is an easy choice for me because I already made it. My only rifle is 357 rossi 1892, and I will say any 357 handgun with it.
Curious as to how you only have one rifle. Ive been downsizing the last few years and its getting harder each time to decide which one to sell next....... todd/3leg
Well I have a 22LR as well/combination 410ga shotgun, but technically one centrefire. I came at it the other way, I sold all my guns years back.Then years later decided to get one, and the 357 was it. The game I shoot is mostly hogs, rarely a deer. The 357 mag stoked out of a 24" does that. I shoot it to near 200 yards on select shots. Everyone says its a 100 yard cartridge, sure it has less killing power getting past 120 yards but it still kills. I grew up watching my grandad shoot a lot of things with a 22LR and I also hunt closer with rounds loaded down to 38 special levels, so you can see I am in 'that camp' and obviously this mindset does not suit every one.

What are you current guns 3leggedturtle and what are you trying to cull?

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#125 Post by Old Savage » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:05 am

A note on the .357, the optimum length for velocity in a rifle appears to be 16" according to the velocity by the inch site. I believe that's where I saw the data.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#126 Post by COSteve » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:09 am

Old Savage wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:05 am
A note on the .357, the optimum length for velocity in a rifle appears to be 16" according to the velocity by the inch site. I believe that's where I saw the data.
Maybe if you use the specific ammo used in the test as the ammo used was optimized for short barreled pistols, however, if you handload, the chrono will tell you that the longer barrels still produce higher velocities if you use magnum pistol powders like H110, 296, or Lil'Gun.

Example: Using a almost full charge of H110 (16.5grns vs 16.7grns max), my 20" Rossi .357mag carbine shooting 158grn Zero JSP bullets and a SR primer produced 1,789fps while my 24" Rossi .357mag rifle shooting 158grn Zero JSP bullets and a SR primer produced 1,822fps. That's a 33fps increase with the 4" longer barrel.

Further, when I switched powders to Lil'Gun as it produces considerably lower peak chamber pressures and is much, much easier on the brass, I got these results: Using a full charge of Lil'Gun (18.0grns max), my 20" Rossi .357mag carbine shooting 158grn Zero JSP bullets and a SR primer produced 1,952fps while my 24" Rossi .357mag rifle shooting 158grn Zero JSP bullets and a SR primer produced 2,005fps. That's a 53fps increase with the 4" longer barrel.

That's not speculation, it's actual chrono data using an Oehler 35 chrono and shooting 2 sets of 10rds each. BTW, all chrono testing was at my range at 6,100asl on an 84° day.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#127 Post by Grizz » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:56 am

Steve, you are one of the best at systematic record keeping. Thanks for the info.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#128 Post by Old Savage » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:07 am

:Interesting. I have seen rifles of various calibers vary quite a bit with the same loads. You will see this from various loading manuals.. Makes me wonder what loads optimized for 16' would yield. Speer gets higher velocities from a .308.with 150 gr bullets than they do from the .30-06.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#129 Post by Old Savage » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:56 pm

When I get a new rifle I shoot some factory through it to see what that will chronograph and to see what the primers and cases will look like. Then I load a better load for that caliber and find a manual that matches it then use that as my primary source. For my stainless Rem Model 7 7-08 that turned out to be the Hodgdon 26 almost exactly.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#130 Post by mickbr » Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:43 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:05 am
A note on the .357, the optimum length for velocity in a rifle appears to be 16" according to the velocity by the inch site. I believe that's where I saw the data.
Problem with BBTI is they use different makes of gun to test the data. Their 18" barrel 357 is a stoeger buntline for example, aka revolver with the open cyclinder gap, which is probably why it runs slower than the 16" which is a winchester 94. They don't test any higher than 18" either. They should really be comparing apples to apples with their tests and using same gun type at least.

I do find 24" gets decent increase over my buddies 16".

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#131 Post by Paladin » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:15 am

jeepnik wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:35 pm
I'd love to say my 1895 GS and Single six. But the truth is it'd be my Springfield Scout Squad and my Randall lefty 1911A1. I know the 7.62x51 and the .45 acp well. I know they work when it counts.

But you forgot one shotgun. In that case my choice is a lefty Remington 870, 12 gauge of course.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#132 Post by KWK » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:29 am

COSteve wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:09 am
Using a full charge of Lil'Gun... my 24" Rossi .357mag rifle shooting 158grn Zero JSP bullets... produced 2,005fps.
Nice! That exceeds the performance of the early .30 WCF loads.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#133 Post by Old Savage » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:05 am

But they are different guns as you say. I have a Rem 22" 30-06 that significantly out strips a 24" Win velocity wise.

Also have a 243 BLR that starting loads are almost maximum. Very fast out of a 20" barrel. Two seemingly identical Ruger 270s that are about 100 fps apart. Many examples of either premise.

I guess as you suggest it might be necessary to take the same barrel and progressively shorten it but even then you don't necessarily have data that would apply to your firearm.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#134 Post by Streetstar » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:45 am

I'll say my 20" model 94 carbine with the addition of a small variable optic. 30-30

I'll cheat a little and say a Dan Wesson 357 pistol pack with an 8" barrel for game, and a 2.5" barrel for keeping hidden



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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#135 Post by Grizz » Sat Mar 23, 2019 11:43 am

Old Savage wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:05 am
But they are different guns as you say. I have a Rem 22" 30-06 that significantly out strips a 24" Win velocity wise.

Also have a 243 BLR that starting loads are almost maximum. Very fast out of a 20" barrel. Two seemingly identical Ruger 270s that are about 100 fps apart. Many examples of either premise.

I guess as you suggest it might be necessary to take the same barrel and progressively shorten it but even then you don't necessarily have data that would apply to your firearm.
as for comparison testing,

I have killed deer with a 4" Mod 66 using, I think, 158gr cast, not sure. I have a Winch .357 that I have not hunted with, but have chronoed. Can't find my notebook.

I have killed a substantial number of deer with 44 mag rifle and pistol using 240gr semi-jacket and 325gr pbhc.....

Regardless of velocity info, in my experience the 44 is FAR MORE EFFECTIVE in taking deer. By that I mean the wound forensics are visibly and noticeably greater by every measure......

I understand the relativity of this. I have a friend who is a good shot and took a deer with a .22LR thru the eyeball.

I shot a deer in the ear with the Mod 66 and it was dead before it hit the dirt.

But for all 'round hunting in woods with 5 to 10 yard shots common, and 50 yard shots rare, coaxing a little extra oomph from a .357 is still not in the same league with 44 mag, in my humble and grateful experience. I hunted for meat and fed the hungry little mouths and tried lots of stuff and settled on heavy for caliber hard projectiles as the most efficient and effective for my purpose.

And yes, I can make meat with a .22. it's easy-peasy. But when brer bear comes stomping my direction to jump on me like a wolf mousing in the snow, then the 22 and 35 pistols don't get my vote.

Danny for one has an entirely different perspective on this, as do most of Y'all, since perspective relates to point-of-view. That's what makes this topic so interesting and gets my nod as one of the best of the year. So far.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#136 Post by Old Savage » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:38 pm

5-10 yd shots common ... 50 rare. Here 200 - 300 yd shot s ate common here. 50 might be rare. :wink: but at say 125 yd and in, rifle impact would be at .357 pistol muzzle velocities at minimum.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#137 Post by Grizz » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:32 pm

Old Savage wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:38 pm
5-10 yd shots common ... 50 rare. Here 200 - 300 yd shot s ate common here. 50 might be rare. :wink: but at say 125 yd and in, rifle impact would be at .357 pistol muzzle velocities at minimum.
that's absolutely correct, and the kills I've made with .357 pistol instruct me not to hunt for meat with it.

actually, my 180gr .357 load from my winchester 94 have close performance to 30-30 out to around 100 yards. which is why I don't hunt with 30-30 either! :)

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#138 Post by ChuteTheMall » Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:02 pm

Because the OP specified "unlimited support" and "found a ton of ammo" I won't consider resupply issues, and I'll take my AK47 underfolder and Glock 17.
Both are pretty concealable, accept 30-33 round mags, common military choice, and reliable even during high round count torture tests in the dirt and sand.

The AK underfolder fits in a tennis racket bag, and the Glock fits IWB.

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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#139 Post by AJMD429 » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:19 pm

mickbr wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:43 pm
Old Savage wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:05 am
A note on the .357, the optimum length for velocity in a rifle appears to be 16" according to the velocity by the inch site. I believe that's where I saw the data.
Problem with BBTI is they use different makes of gun to test the data. Their 18" barrel 357 is a stoeger buntline for example, aka revolver with the open cyclinder gap, which is probably why it runs slower than the 16" which is a winchester 94. They don't test any higher than 18" either. They should really be comparing apples to apples with their tests and using same gun type at least.
I thought one of those 'velocity versus barrel length' sites used single-shot Contender or Encore barrels and cut them off inch-by-inch, and part of their reasoning was to not violate laws when they got below 16" if the cartridge was a 'rifle' one.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#140 Post by Old Savage » Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:29 pm

AJ I also thought there was a site that cut the same barrel down. I was mainly interested in what I would be giving up at 16". Finding a specific load for a specific rifle not in my interest. For instance, 24" barrel, why not just take my 35 Rem., 2200 from a 20 barrel. Essentially gives up the compactness.

Kind of all depends on individual point of view.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#141 Post by mickbr » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:15 am

AJMD429 wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:19 pm

I thought one of those 'velocity versus barrel length' sites used single-shot Contender or Encore barrels and cut them off inch-by-inch, and part of their reasoning was to not violate laws when they got below 16" if the cartridge was a 'rifle' one.
Doc Some do. The most quoted site these days seems to be BBTI (Ballistics by the inch). They seem to go to a lot of effort to get all the data they can but stop at 18" for 357 and that in a buntline revolver so its a bit incomplete.
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#142 Post by mickbr » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:45 am

Old Savage wrote:
Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:29 pm
AJ I also thought there was a site that cut the same barrel down. I was mainly interested in what I would be giving up at 16". Finding a specific load for a specific rifle not in my interest. For instance, 24" barrel, why not just take my 35 Rem., 2200 from a 20 barrel. Essentially gives up the compactness.

Kind of all depends on individual point of view.
I dont think youd be giving up much old savage with 16", I wouldn't suggest people get a 24" just for more power in 357. My personal reasons are relating to a 6'9" wingspan Im comfortable with a longer gun and also it keeps the noise a little further from my ears, any extra velocity is just a side bonus.

Scrumbag
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#143 Post by Scrumbag » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:14 am

Well, my view would be this:

Rifle

Drilling in 16gx16g and 7x65r and a .22lr “einstecklauf” (Insert for the shotgun barrel)

16g because the 12g tend to be rather heavy and not swing nicely
7x65r nice handy 7mm pill which will work on most game (8x57r might be good if you have bear issues. They do make 9.3 guns but they get very heavy. However, if you had seriously large animal issues might be good)
16g Slugs / buck will work for where you might want a slug
The .22lr barrel great for small game and with subs sneaky quiet.

Pistol

Maybe the 9mm Sig P226 I used to have as just worked and pointed where I was looking
A decent revolver – maybe a 3” 357 Smith?

Or if you aren’t too worried about concealing it –

AR-15 or AK47 type pistol with an arm brace 😉

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AJMD429
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#144 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:24 am

"...or if you aren’t too worried about concealing it –
AR-15 or AK47 type pistol with an arm brace ...
"

That would be a classic pairing for the drilling....! :mrgreen:
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Scrumbag
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Re: One rifle, one pistol

#145 Post by Scrumbag » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:09 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:24 am
"...or if you aren’t too worried about concealing it –
AR-15 or AK47 type pistol with an arm brace ...
"

That would be a classic pairing for the drilling....! :mrgreen:
Hey, I'm all for mixing it up a little!

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