12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

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BlaineG
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12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#1 Post by BlaineG » Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:29 pm

I've been thinking about something to have when the commie state I happen to be driving thru prohibits actual handguns.

They make CS shells for them, but do actual 12ga shotgun shells fit into them and fire? Not regular loads, but, say, a really light load of large pellets?
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#2 Post by 2ndovc » Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:42 pm

Marine flares are shorter than 2 3/4".

When my dad went on his sailing trip from Lake Erie to the Caribbean, he took along an H&R 12ga that I'd bought and had been cut down to 18 1/2". He did everything legally, checking it in at each island along the way, but knew he could break it down and stash it all over the boat if he needed to, or just chuck it over the side if necessary. There's gotta be a good hidey hole in that camper somewhere. :D

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#3 Post by 3leggedturtle » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:10 pm

Blaine, Kennasaw Cannon Company makes a 22lr or 45/410 adapter for them. Tidd
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#4 Post by Pete44ru » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:34 pm

.

RST makes the low-pressure shotshells that I use in two of my pre-WWI 20 & 28 gauge shotguns with complete confidence, AND they also make low pressure 2" (fired length) & 2-1/2" 12ga ammo.

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/2-12-Gauge.aspx


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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#5 Post by AJMD429 » Mon Mar 11, 2019 9:41 pm

Some cool suggestions above I didn't know existed, but I'd be more tempted to just have a 'regular' firearm that was inexpensive enough to consider disposable. A 12 gauge something-or-other does sound pretty cool though, if you could work around dumb laws legally.

Bummer to have to do that kind of thing though.... :|
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#6 Post by M. M. Wright » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:47 pm

Aquila makes 12 gauge shells that are only about 1 1/2 inches long but nearly full power. My wife uses them in her Remington s x s double.
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#7 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 am

BUT 8) Will a 12ga shell fit into a 12ga Flare gun?
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#8 Post by 3leggedturtle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:09 am

No, they go from 12gauge down to 14gauge for that reason. Picture a square bottleneck.. You would have to shorten the 12 gauge shells to less than 2". Look at the flares at Malwart or Tractor Supply in the boating section.

Pete, i found those RST shells for a guy who wanted to shoot an old shotgun, then last week there was a guy selling them at the gunshow.
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#9 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:42 am

Go to 4-50 for what happens when a short shell is discharged in the flare gun.
The rest of the video is pretty good, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjVw1_H3wXM
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#10 Post by guido4198 » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:14 am

Has anyone researched the use of the flare cartridge in a legal flare gun as a way to defend yourself in an emergency situation..??
It seems to me that catching a flare in the chest at close range wouldn't be a good choice and presented with that option might be sufficient to send a bad guy off looking for easier pickins'.

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#11 Post by jhrosier » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:02 am

I would and have resorted to carrying a cap & ball revolver in circumstances where a modern firearm was not an option.

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#12 Post by GunnyMack » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:27 am

If they outlaw handguns and you are not accosted while sailing down the street in your boat a flare pistol is still going to be an illegal firearm. Step up to a long gun for primary defense. A used pump gun will get all the respect ya want.
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#13 Post by Grizz » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:39 am

BlaineG wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:30 am
BUT 8) Will a 12ga shell fit into a 12ga Flare gun?
NO. the 12ga flare gun has a short chamber to prevent that, but I believe the aquila short shells will fit. what I have is a combloc 26.5mm flare pistol with a 12ga adaptor. It can go thru Canada on my sailboat and is required as safety gear. the modern west marine plastic flare pistols aren't up to firearms grade, but I suspect a belly with phosphor in it would be quite disabling...

https://www.apexgunparts.com/more/surpl ... steel.html

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#14 Post by mikld » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:43 am

Yep, I believe a flare gun, although it's original intention is emergency signaling, is still a gun. Just an odd shape, big and clumsy, but still a firearm. Kinda like that nice 12" chef's knife I have, originally it was intended to cut veggies, but when it's in my car, it's a weapon (sword!)...
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#15 Post by Grizz » Tue Mar 12, 2019 11:27 am

mikld wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:43 am
Yep, I believe a flare gun, although it's original intention is emergency signaling, is still a gun. Just an odd shape, big and clumsy, but still a firearm. Kinda like that nice 12" chef's knife I have, originally it was intended to cut veggies, but when it's in my car, it's a weapon (sword!)...
not in Canada... the flare device I posted is, specified in Canadian law, a signaling device, designed and built for signaling purposes. been through this with Canadian equivalent of attorney general's office.

if a firearm has been converted to use as a signal device, THAT IS SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED.

IT IS EASY TO CARRY A PUMP SHOTGUN IN CANADA. AND A FLARE SIGNALING DEVICE IS NOT PROHIBITED, it is required as a safety item aboard a boat.

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#16 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:09 pm

GunnyMack wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:27 am
If they outlaw handguns and you are not accosted while sailing down the street in your boat a flare pistol is still going to be an illegal firearm. Step up to a long gun for primary defense. A used pump gun will get all the respect ya want.
The Sarcasm is very good, comical, and much appreciated, but having the Orion Flare Gun, in it's orange Kit Box, while on a multi-state vacation is not far-fetched. So, if you get stopped for a tail light what are you goind to tell the cop? Hey, I've got this flare gun kit to shoot people with, or I was hoping to get in some fishing in Ohio and wanted this along in case of emergencies on a cheap-azz rental boat. :roll: :roll: ?
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#17 Post by 3leggedturtle » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:32 pm

How about taking the flare ammo, emptying ipthem, and putting in some hard rubber balls or marbles?
30/30 Winchester: Not accurate enough fer varmints, barely adequate for small deer; BUT In a 10" to 14" barrelled pistol; is good for moose/elk to 200 yards; ground squirrels to 300 metres

250 Savage: The Original short action, compact, high velocity cartridge.

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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#18 Post by vancelw » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:59 pm

BlaineG wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:42 am
Go to 4-50 for what happens when a short shell is discharged in the flare gun.
The rest of the video is pretty good, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjVw1_H3wXM
Those idiots in that video fail to comprehend that that particular flare gun goes from 12 to 14 gauge (as mentioned earlier) and that the pressures spike because of that.
You would have trouble shooting the lightest possible load through that.
And they bemoan the fact that the flares are 12 gauge to begin with. I'm sure that is tradition. Once upon a time sailors probably didn't have to stow a special flare gun, and could use the the most common one they happened to already have.

Blaine, all states have their own weapons laws, in addition to the federal ones. So there is no one, pat answer as to legality.
A flare gun is a signalling device and probably legal to transport in all 50 states. To carry on one's person....I'm not so sure about that.
Once you use something with expanding gases to shoot someone, it becomes a weapon, or a firearm, or maybe even an illegal or prohibited weapon.
So...if you have to use it, you are screwed.

So, if you are going to take that risk, why not just carry a real firearm? If you are not comfortable transporting a handgun, take a 16" bbl rifle or shotgun.
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#19 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:04 pm

Over here in not so jolly old England, I can only have a Flare pistol on an ocean going boat. Blaine, I like your thinking though, if things get as bad as they are over here it's nice to know a way to "legally" stay armed and dangerous.....of course the "illegal" way is just too easy… :wink:
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#20 Post by Ray » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:51 pm

a can of 20 foot wasp and hornet spray has been used in these conditions before......
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Re: 12 Gauge Flare Guns As SD In Gun-Prohibited Areas

#21 Post by BlaineG » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:35 pm

Ray wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:51 pm
a can of 20 foot wasp and hornet spray has been used in these conditions before......
Since we're parsing the fine print vis-a-vie legalities, those cans of chemicals always say it's against the Law to use in any manner not in accordance with it's intended purpose.
My short blade, quick open folder is probably the best bet. Besides, I've always had my little LCP handy, legal or not. It would suck to be in an accident have have it recovered by LEOs....
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