.22 smoothbore now with crackers!

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.22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#1 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:27 am

I got interested in the Remington 510 after seeing Rube Burrows thread, I found out they also made the 510 with .24" smooth bore barrels , that would be a lot easier to own in the UK being classed as a shotgun. I have a Webley .22 smooth bore but it is not really suitable for use with anything but ratshot ( I know that is what it's designed for ) but it would be nice to put a high velocity hollow point down the pipe for close range jobs if needed. To be honest the ratshot cartridges are not a lot of use, even the 9mm Flobert shells are woefully short of stopping power.
I very much doubt I will find either a Remington 510 rifle or smooth bore over here but looking for one gives me something to do. :wink:
I also found a cracker thrower and instructions for making them on the net ( thought of Pitchy ) miniature clay shooting with a .22 could be fun :lol:
Anyone else use a .22 smooth bore?

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Re: .22 smoothbore.

#2 Post by Bill in Oregon » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:03 am

Gamekeeper, there was a clay target game in the 1950s and '60s called Mo-Skeet, shot with smoothbore .22s from Remington and I believe Mossberg. they offered it at Boy Scout camp and I regret I never gave it a try, being so fascinated with position rifle shooting.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/967321345/R ... al-tra.htm

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Re: .22 smoothbore.

#3 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:36 am

I remember seeing adverts for the Mossberg MoSkeet 8) but the cracker thrower seems to be a big hit with the dogs, even if the kids cheat and use .410s :lol:
https://youtu.be/91hHMXcdOdQ


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPaRR9YiY84

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#4 Post by 765x53 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:59 pm

More recently, Marlin made a smooth-bore in .22 WMR. They still appear on auction sites occasionally. https://www.gunsamerica.com/977214570/M ... en-Gun.htm

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#5 Post by Sixgun » Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:08 pm

Gamekeeper....it's a somewhat rare bird in any make or model....as much as these guns get talked about, there are relatively few...and their prices reflect that. People up until recent times did not have the money for multiple guns and they just "made do" by using shot cartridges in rifled bores.

I don't know how, but somehow the giant gun funnel in the sky dropped me off an 1894 Marlin 44-40 with a choked factory smooth bore...and it shoots like a .410 shotgun with excellent patterns.---6
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#6 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:22 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:08 pm
Gamekeeper....it's a somewhat rare bird in any make or model....as much as these guns get talked about, there are relatively few...and their prices reflect that. People up until recent times did not have the money for multiple guns and they just "made do" by using shot cartridges in rifled bores.

.---6
I guess that smooth bored guns are more common over on my side of the pond because they are easier to own due to our draconian gun laws. Rook rifles, Lee Enfield's Martini Henrys have been bored out just so they can be owned by people with only a shotgun licence. Likewise Flobert rimfires are common over here as in Europe. Having rifled firearms in the UK is deemed a privilege and NOT a right, so knowing that our registered firearms can become illegal over night leaving us with only shotguns it seems wise to have as many types of "shotgun" as you can.. :wink:
SIX, I sure envy you that Marlin... :mrgreen:
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#7 Post by Sixgun » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:32 pm

I hear ya Gamekeeper....it's nice and informative to hear you give us Yanks straight talk .....unlike the news.......

Ahhhh...the Marlin sits in the back of the safe doing what other people's 401K plans do for them...but my interest rate is higher.

Get yourself a bucket list....I'd love to entertain you and Nath for a week or two.....we could have some real fun.....while we still can....-----6
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#8 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:36 pm

765x53 wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 12:59 pm
More recently, Marlin made a smooth-bore in .22 WMR. They still appear on auction sites occasionally. https://www.gunsamerica.com/977214570/M ... en-Gun.htm
A very rare bird over here and the magazine would class it as a firearm and not a shotgun but I would imagine that a .22 wrm shot cartridge would be better than the 9mm flobert, that Marlin is probably another good gun I'll never get to shoot but I did once own the rifled Marlin 25MN.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#9 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:40 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:32 pm
I hear ya Gamekeeper....it's nice and informative to hear you give us Yanks straight talk .....unlike the news.......

Ahhhh...the Marlin sits in the back of the safe doing what other people's 401K plans do for them...but my interest rate is higher.

Get yourself a bucket list....I'd love to entertain you and Nath for a week or two.....we could have some real fun.....while we still can....-----6
I'm sure Nath and I would have almost TOO much fun but we would have to buy buffalo coats before we visit.... :lol:
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#10 Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:06 pm

I believe the Mo-Skeet game was intended to be played with a Remington 572 pump. The 572 has a screw on the left side of the receiver that locked the barrel into place. To change from the rifled barrel to the smooth bore barrel you just loosened the screw and pulled the barrel out.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#11 Post by Sixgun » Sat Mar 02, 2019 4:30 pm

Hey Gamekeeper...no need for you and Nath to buy Buffalo coats .....Jay's (Old Win.) great grandfather started a buffalo coat rental business. You can just rent them from Jay and before leaving back to the U.K. just put the contents from my gunroom on your carry on and leave the coat at the airport. Jay will pick it up from there. :D

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#12 Post by gamekeeper » Sat Mar 02, 2019 5:06 pm

Six that sounds like a good plan.. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#13 Post by AJMD429 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:10 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Sat Mar 02, 2019 1:08 pm
I don't know how, but somehow the giant gun funnel in the sky dropped me off an 1894 Marlin 44-40 with a choked factory smooth bore...and it shoots like a .410 shotgun with excellent patterns.---6
Wow....you find the coolest stuff....! Never knew they made anything like that....!
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#14 Post by GunnyMack » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:30 am

Yeah Doc some people have ALL the luck!! Six reminds me of another guy I know, they both must have been born under the good luck tree, then both stepping in a good luck paddy repeatedly!!
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#15 Post by wolfdog » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:47 am

My buddy Bob has a smoothbore 22 single shot called a "Humdinger". He uses it to shoot carpenter bees(not really bees, they are a wood boring beetle) around hunting camp. Lots of fun.

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#16 Post by Sixgun » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:05 pm

I don't think anyone believes me..I'm gonna go dig that old Marlin out.....ain't seen it in a few years...first year production..1894.....---6
Last edited by Sixgun on Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#17 Post by .45colt » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:28 pm

Annie Oakley used one of those Marlins. We visited the Garst museum many years ago in western Ohio. The have a very nice collection of Annies Things . and I re-member seeing That Marlin smoothbore. https://www.garstmuseum.org/exhibits

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#18 Post by GunnyMack » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:08 pm

Here on the east coast we have a new invasive insect, the spotted lantern fly. Then flush just like a bird- I'd love to have a smooth bore 22 just for shooting these Chinese invaders!
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#19 Post by Sixgun » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:44 pm

.45colt wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:28 pm
Annie Oakley used one of those Marlins. We visited the Garst museum many years ago in western Ohio. The have a very nice collection of Annies Things . and I re-member seeing That Marlin smoothbore. https://www.garstmuseum.org/exhibits
Thanks 45 Colt......I know Winchester made a handful but have yet to see a Marlin version...gotta get this lettered.....might have gone to Annie herself......I do have dumb luck like that. :D ---6
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#20 Post by Rube Burrows » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:20 pm

Pretty neat stuff yall. I had never seen the Marlin 44 smoothbore either. That's pretty sweet.

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#21 Post by marlinman93 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:46 am

.22 smoothbores are more of a curiosity than a good thing from hat I've discovered. I once had a pretty neat little Stevens 44 in .22 smoothbore, and it was pretty disappointing to use. The .22 Shot shells held such a tiny amount of tiny shot that trying to hit anything beyond 5 yds. was nearly impossible. And when you did hit the small shot size often didn't do enough damage to even know you hit.
I sold the Stevens, and a miniature thrower that came with it to a Stevens collector I knew. He wanted it just for what it was, not for what it couldn't do.
I've always thought the various .410's or .28 ga. were a much better choice if I wanted a small, light shotgun.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#22 Post by gamekeeper » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:13 pm

Marlinman93, yup the .22 shotshell is pretty pathetic, #12 shot is is next to useless, my 9mm Flobert rimfire with #10 is not much better but both have killed pests at close range when other more powerful options could not be safely used.
The saving grace of the .22 shotgun is that if you wound your quarry and the mouse turns nasty you can load it up with a hollow point and defend yourself... :lol:
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#23 Post by JerryB » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:08 pm

Here in Arkansas the .22 shot shell in not useless I have killed many copperheads in the yard and some large blacksnakes in the chicken house with single action .22 pistol. I use a shotgun for flying things.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#24 Post by GunnyMack » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:57 am

I've always enjoyed making my oun pistol shotshells, just sacrifice 1 case by inside / outside chamfer to get a sharp cutting edge, the cardboard primers come in make great 'wads' . Light tap with a hammer and cut all you want. Use light powder charges of your choice and a heavy crimp and ya got bumble bee loads that actually work! Most times I use 7&1/2's or 8's.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#25 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:56 am

JerryB wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:08 pm
Here in Arkansas the .22 shot shell in not useless I have killed many copperheads in the yard and some large blacksnakes in the chicken house with single action .22 pistol. I use a shotgun for flying things.
We have no really dangerous reptiles in the UK, only the Adder which is protected anyway but I know the .22 shot shell is sufficient at close range thus maintaining its availability. I have never used them in a revolver, mainly in smoothbored long guns.
Question: do you use CCI or crimped shells? I asked CCI if they would consider using #10 instead of #12 but they said no because most people use them in rifled firearms and they require more pellets to keep some sort of pattern.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#26 Post by marlinman93 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:35 am

gamekeeper wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:13 pm
Marlinman93, yup the .22 shotshell is pretty pathetic, #12 shot is is next to useless, my 9mm Flobert rimfire with #10 is not much better but both have killed pests at close range when other more powerful options could not be safely used.
The saving grace of the .22 shotgun is that if you wound your quarry and the mouse turns nasty you can load it up with a hollow point and defend yourself... :lol:
The one saving grace, or positive of .22 shotshells is the fact that they wont do any harm if the tiny pellets strike anything past 10 yds. In fact I've seen small pests run away after being struck at 10 yds. as if no harm beyond stinging them was done.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#27 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:04 pm

marlinman93 wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:35 am
gamekeeper wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:13 pm
Marlinman93, yup the .22 shotshell is pretty pathetic, #12 shot is is next to useless, my 9mm Flobert rimfire with #10 is not much better but both have killed pests at close range when other more powerful options could not be safely used.
The saving grace of the .22 shotgun is that if you wound your quarry and the mouse turns nasty you can load it up with a hollow point and defend yourself... :lol:
The one saving grace, or positive of .22 shotshells is the fact that they wont do any harm if the tiny pellets strike anything past 10 yds. In fact I've seen small pests run away after being struck at 10 yds. as if no harm beyond stinging them was done.
Yup, that's why I use them, inside or around buildings. :wink:
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#28 Post by JerryB » Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:54 pm

gamekeeper, I use the CCI shot in handguns, they have more power and at arms length they have never failed to kill.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#29 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 05, 2019 2:00 pm

JerryB wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:54 pm
gamekeeper, I use the CCI shot in handguns, they have more power and at arms length they have never failed to kill.
I have used both but the CCI do seem better to me, plus I had a lot of jams in a Marlin Mountie using the crimped shells.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#30 Post by InTheWoods » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:05 pm

I check in here daily because of the great discussions, but rarely post for reasons even I don't understand. Anyway, I am enjoying this topic greatly and thought I would chip in with a photo of a comparison I did recently between Federal crimped shot shells and the CCI capsuled shotshells. The difference is remarkable. Both patterns were shot from the pictured old Winchester with a pitted and fouled bore I inherited from my grandfather decades ago. The shooting was at 10 feet.

Our main prey with these shotshells are carpenter bees in the spring and early summer. Our house is all rough sawed cedar and these pests just love it. Anyway, we actually have a ball wingshooting the bees. Quite a sport. Actually thinking of getting a smoothbore to see if I can tighten the patterns a little.

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#31 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:35 pm

InTheWoods wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:05 pm
I check in here daily because of the great discussions, but rarely post for reasons even I don't understand. Anyway, I am enjoying this topic greatly and thought I would chip in with a photo of a comparison I did recently between Federal crimped shot shells and the CCI capsuled shotshells. The difference is remarkable. Both patterns were shot from the pictured old Winchester with a pitted and fouled bore I inherited from my grandfather decades ago. The shooting was at 10 feet.

Our main prey with these shotshells are carpenter bees in the spring and early summer. Our house is all rough sawed cedar and these pests just love it. Anyway, we actually have a ball wingshooting the bees. Quite a sport. Actually thinking of getting a smoothbore to see if I can tighten the patterns a little.

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That's interesting, could it be that the blue plastic shot capsule is picking up spin from what's left of the rifling?
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#32 Post by InTheWoods » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:48 pm

That is the prevailing theory. Don't know what the difference would be in a smoothbore, but am anxious to find out.

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#33 Post by gamekeeper » Tue Mar 05, 2019 6:25 pm

My B/A Webley has a 25" barrel and is choked, it generally throws a pattern sort of inbetween yours with both CCI and crimped.
I would be happy if it patterned like yours with crimped shells. I am looking for a single shot rifle that has had the rifling removed or a Remington 510 smoothbore. The Webley has a primitive extractor and with that choked barrel makes using high velocity .22 long rifle dodgy, don't ask me how I found that out :oops:
My Anshutz ,9mm Flobert is a better gun for small close range vermin but the ammo is difficult to find and a little louder plus you can't switch to bullets, I did once have a box of 9mm Flobert conical bullets but zero accuracy in my gun, even though it has sights.
I know a .22 smoothbore is not going to be accurate but for despatching trapped foxes etc it would be fine.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#34 Post by Sixgun » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 pm

Keep in mind the difference between a rifled bore and a factory smoothbore is the choking....yes, the smoothbored ones from the factory are actually choked. So shooting from a rifled bore leaves much to be desired as the rifling and the "open" muzzle must really destroy the pattern.

Not sure if all smoothbores that were factory made have the choke in them. I do know my old 1894 Marlin does have it. I slugged it and at the last several inches of the muzzle it tapers down. An old Winchester Model 61 smoothbore was the same...that rifle did not belong to me..

For someone interested in playing with .22 smoothbores and .22 shot loads, it would be nothing to cut out the rifling and have a 3" tapered sleeve installed at the muzzle....in fact, maybe the only thing that would be needed would be the tapered sleeve. This could be done to any .22 with at least a 16" barrel.........pick out a cheap .22 rifle and do it yourself on a Sunday afternoon....tolerances don't have to be exact. You could make the sleeve out of a piece of soft steel or brass......say 3-4" long, 1/4" diameter,.......center drill it .200 , then get a tapered round file to create the choke. .......drill out the end of the barrel .250 and epoxy it in.----6
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#35 Post by JB » Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:36 pm

Sixgun wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:38 pm
Not sure if all smoothbores that were factory made have the choke in them. I do know my old 1894 Marlin does have it. I slugged it and at the last several inches of the muzzle it tapers down. An old Winchester Model 61 smoothbore was the same...that rifle did not belong to me..

I know the Savage I owned and the Remington 572 I currently own have no choke in them.

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#36 Post by Sixgun » Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:34 pm

JB...I hear ya......I'm faaarrrrr from knowledgeable on smoothbores, only knowing what I have personally experienced. I thought I remembered the guy who owned the smoothbore 61 had a choke in it...I took his word for it.....at the time (before my time) Winchester was advertising their smoothbore for a new style of trapshooting that used the ..22 shotshell....dunno

I'm glad you spoke up...I'm learning something. Thanks!

100% sure on my old 1894 Marlin........ when I bought the gun I was worried that it was just a regular 44-40 rifled barrel that someone drilled out but upon closer inspection I knew it was the real deal.....a bored out one would have had no step in front of the chamber mouth and slugging it showed it to be choked.------6
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#37 Post by gamekeeper » Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:15 pm

My Webley .22 smoothbore is definitely choked but my Anschutz 9mm flobert smoothbore is not, maybe because the Anschutz is made to also fire slugs, which are commonly used in Europe but sadly not in Britain.
I had fired a few sub sonic long rifle shells and CB longs in the Webley with out a problem but a Remington yellow jacket bent the extractor and the case ruptured near the rim :oops: this I believe was because of the choke plus the extractor is Just a sliding piece of steel that also supports the rim of the shell whilst in the chamber. This is why I'd rather have a rifle that has been rebored or a unchoked .22 shotgun. My original line of thought was that knowing the UKs draconian gun laws, should rifled arms be even more restricted, a legal shotgun that could use rimfire ammo may have come in handy.
I think I'll just get rid of both as I can use ratshot in my 9422 or little two inch shells in my .410.


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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#38 Post by GunnyMack » Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:52 pm

410 with #10 shot would do just fine for any pest you can think of! Buddy of mine bought 5 lbs of 12s years ago, ya get a LOT of shot in 1 ounce! Think I still have some...?
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#39 Post by piller » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:20 pm

It sounds fun, but I cannot shoot things like that since I live in the city. Someone used to make an air gun that could shoot some sort of reloadable shot capsule. I don't remember which company it was. I just remembre seeing one once when I bought an 8 shot CO2 powered pellet pistol.

If someone could come up with a way for a spring airgun to Shoot some sort of reloadable shot capsule to take up to about number 7.5 shot around 1,000 fps, it should be effective at short range.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#40 Post by AJMD429 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:47 pm

piller wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:20 pm
If someone could come up with a way for a spring airgun to Shoot some sort of reloadable shot capsule to take up to about number 7.5 shot around 1,000 fps, it should be effective at short range.
:?:
I wonder if you could rig up reloadable shot shells for this...?

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Gamo_Vip ... Rifle/1020

This one has reloadable shells but it's 50 caliber, and rather pricey:

https://www.airgundepot.com/air-venturi-wing-shot.html
Last edited by AJMD429 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#41 Post by piller » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:53 pm

Doc, that is what I saw in a store about 10-12 years ago. I didn't have a use for it then, so I didn't get one. Still no need for one. It should be fun if you have a place for it.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#42 Post by 765x53 » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:57 pm

AJMD429 wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:47 pm
piller wrote:
Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:20 pm
If someone could come up with a way for a spring airgun to Shoot some sort of reloadable shot capsule to take up to about number 7.5 shot around 1,000 fps, it should be effective at short range.
:?:
I wonder if you could rig up reloadable shot shells for this...? ------------------- Someone has. http://www.foundry.ray-vin.com/firearms ... s/gamo.htm

https://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/Gamo_Vip ... Rifle/1020

This one has reloadable shells but it's 50 caliber, and rather pricey:

https://www.airgundepot.com/air-venturi-wing-shot.html

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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#43 Post by Larkbill » Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:51 am

Crosman made a CO2 shotgun, I think in the 70s. My brother has one but finding shooting supplies for it is almost impossible. Plus I think it uses two CO2 cartridges at a time. Probably was pricey to shoot.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#44 Post by InTheWoods » Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:52 am

InTheWoods wrote:
Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:05 pm
I check in here daily because of the great discussions, but rarely post for reasons even I don't understand. Anyway, I am enjoying this topic greatly and thought I would chip in with a photo of a comparison I did recently between Federal crimped shot shells and the CCI capsuled shotshells. The difference is remarkable. Both patterns were shot from the pictured old Winchester with a pitted and fouled bore I inherited from my grandfather decades ago. The shooting was at 10 feet.

Our main prey with these shotshells are carpenter bees in the spring and early summer. Our house is all rough sawed cedar and these pests just love it. Anyway, we actually have a ball wingshooting the bees. Quite a sport. Actually thinking of getting a smoothbore to see if I can tighten the patterns a little.

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Just picked up a Remington 580 smoothbore and thought I would pattern it with the same shells as above. Unlike before, the CCI shells were not an absolute disaster and probably did slightly better that the Federal crimped shells. Below are the patterns with the "new' gun. Both are good. Like above, the Federals are on the left and the CCIs on the right. Patterns at 10 ft. The Winchester in my first tests would not eject the Federals and it took need-nose pliers to remove the empty. The Remington ejects them just fine. The Federals are much cheaper.
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#45 Post by gamekeeper » Thu Mar 14, 2019 12:49 pm

That is interesting, there seems to be conflicting views on which type of .22 shot shell works best, answer is pattern each gun with both. Thanks for posting 8)
Congratulations on finding the Remington by the way... :mrgreen:
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Re: .22 smoothbore now with crackers!

#46 Post by Rusty » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:41 am

For those that are having problems with carpenter bees you might try spraying your wood with a boric acid solution. Thet will die shortly after ingesting treated wood.
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