Case failures, new ammo, kind of OT

[Scruffy49]

I think I killed my .308 bolt action.

Went target shooting, standard 250yd for fun gongs. Brand new box of 147gr fmj steel cased factory rounds. You know, generic mil-spec plinking rounds.

Had an “off” sound halfway through tbe box. Bolt opened very stiffly. Cartridge failed to extract let alone eject. Broke the knife blade tip off prying the case free. Got 1/2 a case... Bolt is very stiff. Hard to get it to lock in forward position, and can’t get it out of the receiver.

I’ve shot steel case for years in SK, AK, AR platforms. My Glock 36 and VZ24 eat steel case ball rounds like a fat kid eats candy. I broke that .308 in on the same rounds that seem to have damaged it. Could cover 5 shots with a dime at 250yds on that ammunition.

Reloads aren’t allowed at the range I normally use. Sealed box factory stuff only so all shooters share the same disadvantage. Most shoot steel case, as it is relatively cheap.

Rifle is in the shop. The rest of that box of rounds shot fine in the range owner’s M14. Yes, he has the licensing for the M14.

[piller]

Sounds to me as if there was an overpressure issue.

Anyone with more knowledge than I have on this situation, please jump in.

[GunnyMack]

Yup over pressure. Probably set the lugs back... Head space might be out now.

[Pisgah]

Definitely sounds like an overpressure round, nothing to do with steel case or brass. What manufacturer?

[Sixgun]

You saying a knife blade eventually pulled out the "half case" but the extractor on a mostly fool proof bolt action did not? Wow! Quite a knife you have there.....even if it did break. Curious, how did you get the knife blade down in the barrel/chamber area to even get a "hold" of the rim of the cartridge case? ----6

[Chuck 100 yd]

^^^ Good question. Bolt actions usually have deaply recessed chambers .

[GunnyMack]

Re reading this I interpret it that the round fired sounded 'off' what's off mean? Louder? Softer?
I also take it that the extractor slipped off/ tore the rim off. That left the case stuck but yet a knife blade got it out ?
I've had rims tear off and not much to be done without a rod. Sure I tried to pry them out but never worked.
Did the neck side of the case pop out with a bronze brush?
Did you take any pictures?

Now if the bolt doesnt close easily then your factory steel case ammo was well over a proof load and the bolt lugs have set back, possibly able to lap the lugs but the head space is going to be excessive. Pull the barrel and set it back a couple threads and chase the chamber.

[Sixgun]

Gunny......stop wasting your time responding to this idiot. If you remember, he was getting 3/4" groups at 250 yards with a levergun. This cat is so full of pelosi I can smell him from wherever he is. ---6

[AJMD429]

Sixer......he said "I think I killed my .308 bolt action. "

I've gotten my little Craftsman knife blade to the chamber of a Ruger M-77V even though the angle sucked. Didn't break it off cuz I gave up since the angle wasn't good enough. I used a cleaning rod instead, and the case wasn't split just right.

That BOLT action of mine could cloverleaf ten rounds of 6 mm Remingtons at 100 yards, so I'm guessing it could do maybe nickle-sized or quarter-sized groups at 250 yds...maybe smaller if only 3 or 5 shots.

Dunno the guy, but I'm willing to take his word so far (besides what would anyone have to gain posting what he posted if it weren't true...?).

[Scruffy49]

Bolt actions: Savage .308, Winchester M70 .243, Ruger M77 All Weather .22 Hornet, Marlin Glenfield M20 .22lr.

Lever actions: Henry youth .22, 1965 round barrel M94 .30/30, 1967 M94 Canadian Centennial src

Blackpowder: T/C Hawkin .50, Lyman Great Plains .54, Ruger Old Army .45 with brass grip frame (1972 only option), Basque made .44wcf SAA clone (pre-WW1), Moore and Harris double barrel caplock 12g corca 1870s

Jam-o-matics: Glock 36 .45acp, VZ/CZ 24 .380 (1937 proof marked), “paratrooper” SKS with factory 30 round magazine, pair of crappy .22 pocket pistols, Remington Sportsman 20g (3 shot A5 clone), Sig P6, Bersa Thunder CC .380

Revolvers: 1931 S&W 3rd Model .44 Hand Ejector, Basque made .38L double action circa 1921, Heritage .22/.22wmr, S&W airweight .38spl, Iver Johnson Target 55A .22

Shotguns: Springfield 12g, Davenport Columbia 12g, Stevens 94c .410, H&R .410, Deerfield 16g, Ithaca 37 16g

The round in question kicked like a mule and was LOUD. Cheap Russian stuff from Academy. I use a lot of it, only problem round out of hundreds each in .308, .45Cp or .380. And yes, the main long skinny blade of a small stockman’s folder will catch the case rim on tbe Savage .308.

[Scruffy49]

Now, I’ve only been shooting centerfire cartridges since 1982. So no, I don’t know everything. I do however spend an inordinate of time/money sending lead down range into steel gongs, coyotes, deer and feral hogs. Or small vermin like rabbits, squirrels, possums and raccoons. And generally shoot a 240-245 out of 250 on my yearly qualifying with a dept issued .38 LCP or .38 K frame. Sorry, we get issued worn out wheel guns and worn out 870 12g instead of modern guns in that line of work.

[claybob86]

Let us know what the shop says after they look at it.

[vancelw]

What did the round BEFORE it sound like?

[Tycer]

What did the round BEFORE it sound like?

That was my first thought.

[AJMD429]

People talk about re-headspacing and so-on, but I'd think that once metal like that got bent/stretched under high pressure, it would need re-tempered at the minimum, in order to trust not to further yield, even with normal loads, much less not to catastophically fail if another overpressure round were fired.

I don't think I'd ever feel safe firing a gun that had gotten stretched that way.

[gamekeeper]

People talk about re-headspacing and so-on, but I'd think that once metal like that got bent/stretched under high pressure, it would need re-tempered at the minimum, in order to trust not to further yield, even with normal loads, much less not to catastophically fail if another overpressure round were fired.

I don't think I'd ever feel safe firing a gun that had gotten stretched that way.

I too would be wary...

[wm]

I wonder if the cartridge before the 'event' left some of the jacket in the chamber or leade. I have seen that happen once or twice with steel cased rounds. Both times in 7.62X39mm. Corrosion 'joins' the steel case to the jacket and when fired the core of the bullet and most of the jacket goes down the barrel like you expect but a chunk of jacket remains attached to the case. If that bit of jacket material ends of staying in the rifle after the case is turned and pulled out of the action it can elevate pressure of the next round.


More of a theory about what may have happened then anything else. I hope your gunsmith is able to fix your rifle. Steel case ammo needs more then a cursory examination before use IMO as the least bit of corrosion seems to cause issues.


Wm